Making a fair and thorough literary evaluation of Book of Mormon authorship

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Since one of the discussion points in several recent threads is the writing of Solomon Spaulding, any serious student of the question of Book of Mormon authorship would of course compare the available texts in all the literary comparisons that normal scholarship entails.

When scholars try to discover if William Shakespeare was really the author of the plays and sonnets that have his name on them, for example, they will look for other writing of the period that are representative of possible authors since one of the sonnets hinted that the real “Shakespeare” may have been submitting his work through the use of that name because he wanted to keep his real name hidden. When scholars do that, they find “word prints” that show similar word usage, ideas, style, syntax, literary complexity, use of metaphorical language and other literary devices, apparent historical knowledge of the author, and so forth.

For anyone to have seriously taken that approach when taking any proposed “author” of the Book of Mormon and come up with the name of “Solomon Spaulding” or “Sidney Rigdon” or “Oliver Cowdery” to be the author, shows merely that that person making that supposition has not the slightest ability to make the kind of literary “word print” comparison that a serious scholar makes.

There is no comparable literary work in existence–not one, when one takes the whole scope of the Book of Mormon and does a fair and thorough comparison.

If someone is so bent on trying to disprove that the Book of Mormon was written through divine help, then if that person is being sincere within themselves they ought to take out some paper and start writing a book and see how easy it is to be authentic and have the same literary complexity and show different authors’ distinctive stylistics. (Let them use the Bible, fine, to add what they suppose “Joseph Smith added to the text” to show that the Biblical texts were known as sources for study by the Nephite prophets, and were loved by those prophets, but they will need to add other source prophetic texts that were at one time in Jerusalem and that are not in the Bible since the Book of Mormon does that.)

Anyone who tries to do that will soon find that realistically, they are in way over their head, particularly since they wouldn’t be able to use a computer or the internet and say that they have produced a manuscript that replicates in stylistics, word usage, literary complexity, and multiple authorship “word prints”–what Joseph Smith or the supposed “hidden author” did.

If anyone is going to take issue with the above and thinks I ought to respond to other questions raised here, then the only reason I will respond is if they show they have successfully done that with several paragraphs of their own writing, and present those paragraphs to show their work and how it matches the content and complexity of the Book of Mormon. And I’m not talking just putting together a few “it came to pass” sentences. They would at least need to show they have successfully authenticated their own version of a “tree of life” dream, and many sentences with real gospel “meat” in them–not to mention showing flashbacks and different authors’ distinctive writing styles.

Peace to you, readers. Have a good Sunday.
 
It is possible for a liberal Mormon to believe that Joseph & Co. knit together. with God’s help and inspiration, from many sources available in the 1820’s, an inspirational narrative, which might not be historically true. It is still a legitimate source for spiritual insights.

You know, Parker, I cannot argue with that belief. So, believe as you may, there are faithful LDS who are more open-minded than you.

You, also. Have a good Sunday. Live in Charity.
 
**+ I posted this on another thread . . . thought it might help here . . . what a sadness to find this thread posted on a Catholic Forum on the Lord’s day . . . **
  • … I was raised as a child in the heart of “Mormon” country here in the United States … Though I knew many Mormons as friends in school and our neighborhood . . . their belief system is known to Catholics and Protestants alike essentially as a CULT . . . and it is an immensely large one . . . and their understandings, definitions and usage of the same religious and scriptural words are RADICALLY different . . .
Definition:
 
It is possible for a liberal Mormon to believe that Joseph & Co. knit together. with God’s help and inspiration, from many sources available in the 1820’s, an inspirational narrative, which might not be historically true. It is still a legitimate source for spiritual insights.

You know, Parker, I cannot argue with that belief. So, believe as you may, there are faithful LDS who are more open-minded than you.

You, also. Have a good Sunday. Live in Charity.
I was talking about serious scholarship–not whether someone saves themselves the trouble of serious scholarship by saying to themselves that they are more “open-minded” and therefore don’t need to take a serious approach to the question of Book of Mormon authorship on the literary side of that question.

I would give any “liberal Mormon” the same challenge.
 
I posted this on another thread . . . thought it might help here . . . what a sadness to find this thread posted on a Catholic Forum on the Lord’s day . . .
He or she who already shows by their use of a sacred name in an inappropriate way:

To counter your post, which was off-topic, here is a response that is also off topic and if you wish I will start another thread in this non-Catholic religions forum to help explain the beliefs of my church and the teachings of the Bible supporting those beliefs:

What Christ told Joseph Smith about “all their creeds” being “an abomination” is along the lines of the following passage in Matthew 15:

1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

When the term “commandments of men” is used, (which term is used several times in the New Testament), it is an allusion to this same teaching by Christ, which was prophesied by Isaiah. It means the people following the “tradition” or the “doctrines” “draw nigh with their mouth,” but that through tradition and changes in doctrine,

“this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:” (Isaiah 29:13)

If fear toward God is “taught by the precept of men,” then that means the outcome will usually be that a person with that kind of fear will not have a heart ready for making the kinds of changes in their life that involve sanctification through the Holy Spirit and through Christ’s guidance toward making those changes. In other words, they will have been responding and listening to “precepts of men” rather than to personal revelation from God to them individually.

Every follower of Christ, LDS included, needs to check their heart often, inwardly, to see whether they are making the kinds of changes in their life that the Holy Spirit will guide them to make. They will become more loving and kind, more forgiving toward others, more compassionate, and have the fruits of the Spirit in their life.

Along with those changes there needs to be in place a real belief that the eventual goal of those changes is to become “like Christ” in word and deed.

Peace to all readers here.
 
there needs to be in place a real belief that the eventual goal of those changes is to become “like Christ” in word and deed.
Amen.
PRAYER TO
SAINT MICHAEL
THE ARCHANGEL
St. Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the Devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray,
and do thou,
O Prince of the heavenly hosts,
by the power of God,
thrust into hell Satan,
and all the evil spirits,
who prowl about the world
seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen.
Amen

As incredible as it may seem, although Mormonism is a religion that is in serious error, to the point that the ancient prayer to St. Michael the Archangel applies, there are some LDS who do strive to live as the Jesus of the New Testament lived.

And if LDS church members continue to live out the teachings which offend Jews, Muslims, people of color, women, celibates, Masons, people with SSA, Catholics and Protestants, political liberals, people with certain ancestries, etc. may God have mercy on North America.
 
ParkerD, Doctrines and Covenenat 20:8-9 claims that the Book of Mormon contains “the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ” yet it does not mention the Quorum of Seventies, the Aaronic priesthood, God as an exalted man, the plurality of gods, men becoming gods, three degrees of heavenly glory, baptism for the dead, celestial marriage etc, etc, etc.

Is the book of Mormon without error? Is it the infallible word of God?
 
****. . . :coffeeread: . . . ****
The Battle Between Good and Evil
- Father John Corapi

"One cannot understand reality if one brackets out a large portion of reality - the preternatural order ( :angel1: angels and demons). If you try to arrive at valid conclusions concerning reality,

but have left out a good part of that reality ****
you are engaged in an exercise in futility
.

So many things today can only be understood in the light of this spiritual reality. Have you ever wondered why so many apparently educated and intelligent people just don’t get it, especially with respect to such life and death matters as abortion?

There is a battle that goes on in the spiritual order between the forces of God and the forces of Satan, “the adversary.” This battle between cosmic good and evil, between :angel1: angels and demons, has man caught in the crosshairs. Man is an active player in his own salvation. We need the help of our allies the :angel1: angels. To fail to enlist their :angel1: help is reckless.

To fail to realize the reality of the enemy forces,
the demonic legions,
can be ultimately and eternally fatal.

We are at war and our battle is NOT against flesh and blood, as St. Paul warns us in Ephesians 6. The battle between good and evil, truth and lies, life and death involves these angelic legions - good and evil. We are soldiers in God’s army, like it or not, believe it or not. We must be aware of these fundamental teachings, learn them, and live in accordance with them."


:bible1: **EPHESIANS 6:12 **
For our wrestling is NOT against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places.

- from Father Corapi’s
October 27, 2009 Newsletter
:signofcross:
PRAYER TO
SAINT MICHAEL
THE ARCHANGEL

O glorious prince St. Michael,

chief and commander of the heavenly hosts,
guardian of souls,
vanquisher of rebel spirits
,
servant in the house of the **
Divine King**
and our admirable conductor,
you who shine with excellence
and superhuman virtue
deliver us from all evil
who turn to you with confidence
and enable us by your gracious protection
to serve
God
more and more faithfully every day.

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . Precious Blood of Jesus+
. . .
* cover every soul+
. . . who comes in touch with this thread+**
. . . Gracious Heavenly Father+
. . . Sweet All Powerful Spirit of our Holy God+
. . . allow absolutely nothing
of these errors and false teachings
to take root in any of the minds and souls
in touch with this thread+
. . . thank You Dear Lord Jesus+
*:signofcross:
 
So Jesus 123 has mastered ‘cut & paste’ but has yet to prove reading comprehension or the ability to think and reply in his own words

Jesus 123, if this thread offends you, then I urge you to stick to the numerous Catholic doctrine forums and avoid the Non-Catholic Religions forum
 
I was talking about serious scholarship–not whether someone saves themselves the trouble of serious scholarship by saying to themselves that they are more “open-minded” and therefore don’t need to take a serious approach to the question of Book of Mormon authorship on the literary side of that question.
I have done what I bolded in your remark. You can get to it from the link posted in my sig. Less authoritative than the other link in my sig, but, hey, what can I say? 😃

And like I said, it is possible for an LDS to learn from my analysis, and integrate parts of it into their belief system, and remain LDS. Are you scared to read it? 🤷
 
+Correction Todd520 . . . this Forum’s name is . . . **Catholic Answers Forum ** . . . and its holy mission and purpose before the Lord is to provide the . . . Apostolic Holy Roman Catholic Church’s . . . answers . . . re the Catholic Faith and morals . . . NOT . . . “anything goes” . . . *all the sub-forums contained herein are dedicated to this same holy mission and purpose in **Christ Jesus our Lord **. . . *

. . . all for Jesus+
:signofcross:
 
Since one of the discussion points in several recent threads is the writing of Solomon Spaulding, any serious student of the question of Book of Mormon authorship would of course compare the available texts in all the literary comparisons that normal scholarship entails.

When scholars try to discover if William Shakespeare was really the author of the plays and sonnets that have his name on them, for example, they will look for other writing of the period that are representative of possible authors since one of the sonnets hinted that the real “Shakespeare” may have been submitting his work through the use of that name because he wanted to keep his real name hidden. When scholars do that, they find “word prints” that show similar word usage, ideas, style, syntax, literary complexity, use of metaphorical language and other literary devices, apparent historical knowledge of the author, and so forth.

For anyone to have seriously taken that approach when taking any proposed “author” of the Book of Mormon and come up with the name of “Solomon Spaulding” or “Sidney Rigdon” or “Oliver Cowdery” to be the author, shows merely that that person making that supposition has not the slightest ability to make the kind of literary “word print” comparison that a serious scholar makes.

There is no comparable literary work in existence–not one, when one takes the whole scope of the Book of Mormon and does a fair and thorough comparison.

If someone is so bent on trying to disprove that the Book of Mormon was written through divine help, then if that person is being sincere within themselves they ought to take out some paper and start writing a book and see how easy it is to be authentic and have the same literary complexity and show different authors’ distinctive stylistics. (Let them use the Bible, fine, to add what they suppose “Joseph Smith added to the text” to show that the Biblical texts were known as sources for study by the Nephite prophets, and were loved by those prophets, but they will need to add other source prophetic texts that were at one time in Jerusalem and that are not in the Bible since the Book of Mormon does that.)

Anyone who tries to do that will soon find that realistically, they are in way over their head, particularly since they wouldn’t be able to use a computer or the internet and say that they have produced a manuscript that replicates in stylistics, word usage, literary complexity, and multiple authorship “word prints”–what Joseph Smith or the supposed “hidden author” did.

If anyone is going to take issue with the above and thinks I ought to respond to other questions raised here, then the only reason I will respond is if they show they have successfully done that with several paragraphs of their own writing, and present those paragraphs to show their work and how it matches the content and complexity of the Book of Mormon. And I’m not talking just putting together a few “it came to pass” sentences. They would at least need to show they have successfully authenticated their own version of a “tree of life” dream, and many sentences with real gospel “meat” in them–not to mention showing flashbacks and different authors’ distinctive writing styles.

Peace to you, readers. Have a good Sunday.
 
+Correction Todd520 . . . this Forum’s name is . . . **Catholic Answers Forum ** . . . and its holy mission and purpose before the Lord is to provide the . . . Apostolic Holy Roman Catholic Church’s . . . answers . . . re the Catholic Faith and morals . . . NOT . . . “anything goes” . . . *all the sub-forums contained herein are dedicated to this same holy mission and purpose in **Christ Jesus our Lord ***. . .

. . . all for Jesus+
:signofcross:
Jesus 123, since this sub-forum offends you and the stated purpose of CAF, I urge you to petition for it to be shut down.

Since it is clearly contra to the goals of CAF, it must just be an oversight it remains open.
 
Since one of the discussion points in several recent threads is the writing of Solomon Spaulding, any serious student of the question of Book of Mormon authorship would of course compare the available texts in all the literary comparisons that normal scholarship entails.

When scholars try to discover if William Shakespeare was really the author of the plays and sonnets that have his name on them, for example, they will look for other writing of the period that are representative of possible authors since one of the sonnets hinted that the real “Shakespeare” may have been submitting his work through the use of that name because he wanted to keep his real name hidden. When scholars do that, they find “word prints” that show similar word usage, ideas, style, syntax, literary complexity, use of metaphorical language and other literary devices, apparent historical knowledge of the author, and so forth.

For anyone to have seriously taken that approach when taking any proposed “author” of the Book of Mormon and come up with the name of “Solomon Spaulding” or “Sidney Rigdon” or “Oliver Cowdery” to be the author, shows merely that that person making that supposition has not the slightest ability to make the kind of literary “word print” comparison that a serious scholar makes.

There is no comparable literary work in existence–not one, when one takes the whole scope of the Book of Mormon and does a fair and thorough comparison.

If someone is so bent on trying to disprove that the Book of Mormon was written through divine help, then if that person is being sincere within themselves they ought to take out some paper and start writing a book and see how easy it is to be authentic and have the same literary complexity and show different authors’ distinctive stylistics. (Let them use the Bible, fine, to add what they suppose “Joseph Smith added to the text” to show that the Biblical texts were known as sources for study by the Nephite prophets, and were loved by those prophets, but they will need to add other source prophetic texts that were at one time in Jerusalem and that are not in the Bible since the Book of Mormon does that.)

Anyone who tries to do that will soon find that realistically, they are in way over their head, particularly since they wouldn’t be able to use a computer or the internet and say that they have produced a manuscript that replicates in stylistics, word usage, literary complexity, and multiple authorship “word prints”–what Joseph Smith or the supposed “hidden author” did.

If anyone is going to take issue with the above and thinks I ought to respond to other questions raised here, then the only reason I will respond is if they show they have successfully done that with several paragraphs of their own writing, and present those paragraphs to show their work and how it matches the content and complexity of the Book of Mormon. And I’m not talking just putting together a few “it came to pass” sentences. They would at least need to show they have successfully authenticated their own version of a “tree of life” dream, and many sentences with real gospel “meat” in them–not to mention showing flashbacks and different authors’ distinctive writing styles.

Peace to you, readers. Have a good Sunday.
what a weary test. I have heard that so many times. Tell you what, if I had Cowdery and Rigdon to help, other books to use, and the Bible to copy from, it is possible
 
It is possible for a liberal Mormon to believe that Joseph & Co. knit together. with God’s help and inspiration, from many sources available in the 1820’s, an inspirational narrative, which might not be historically true. It is still a legitimate source for spiritual insights.

You know, Parker, I cannot argue with that belief. So, believe as you may, there are faithful LDS who are more open-minded than you.

You, also. Have a good Sunday. Live in Charity.
Jesus said “by their fruits you shall know them” about false prophets. I live in Salt Lake City by the way, and many Mormons are nice people. However, Joseph Smith who claims he was visited by an angel, and that could be Lucifer. Lucifer was once a a great angel until he disobeyed God. He can also be disguised as an “angel of light”.

Even the Old Testament decries sorcery, and Joseph Smith supposedly used magic stones.

Joseph Smith founded polygamy, directly opposing what Jesus said about marriage in the Old Testament—Matthew 19, verses 5-7—“For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together let no man separate.” Matthew 19, verse 9, And I say to you whoever divorces his wife except for unchastity and marries another commits adultery."

Jesus did not say “take another wife if your first one displeases you or take as many wives as you want”.

And as for Jesus in the Gospel of John chapter 1, verses 1-5 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being in him was life and the life was the light of all people. The light shines in the darkness and the darkness did not overcome it”.

With the “Angel Moroni” and Joseph Smith contradicting the New Testament, please prayerfully pause and ask yourself who was right. It is very easy for anyone to be deceived. Our Church, when given prophecies of any kind waits and examines them a long time before giving permission to listen to them, but at the same time you are NOT required to believe in this. Jesus is the last source of “revealed Revelation” and also the last prophet as there was no more to be said then what Jesus said.

Lovingly ponder these words. The next time you go to your ward, notice how many people are worshiping Jesus himself and how many are venerating Joseph Smith.
 
what a weary test. I have heard that so many times.
So many times. Apply it to Tolkien’s works. Apply it to Shakespeare’s works. The human mind is capable of many things. Man who limits God, limits himself in comparison. God gave us brains to use them for His glory.

With multiple sources and teamwork, the unaided BoM is a cinch.
 
The next time you go to your ward, notice how many people are worshiping Jesus himself and how many are venerating Joseph Smith.
I am not Mormon. And I know all about Smith worshipers. You see, my g’g’grandfather carried a rifle from Warsaw, Illinois, to the Carthage jail on June 27, 1844. I am fed up with being held personally responsible for the death of Joseph Smith.

Some Mormons are liberal, on the outer edges. They are quiet about their heterodoxy, but they are there.
 
Lovingly ponder these words. The next time you go to your ward, notice how many people are worshiping Jesus himself and how many are venerating Joseph Smith.
As a recent investigator and new member, I’ve watched closely for this. Naturally people call JS a prophet but I’ve only seen or heard people worship and pray to Jesus/God.

I would put JS on par with Catholic hero worship of thier saints, but below Mary. However, no moromon prays to JS and ask for his intercession with God, like Catholics pray to the Saints & Mary.

I never understood why pray to a Saint when you can ask God directly :confused:
 
As a recent investigator and new member, I’ve watched closely for this. Naturally people call JS a prophet but I’ve only seen or heard people worship and pray to Jesus/God.

I would put JS on par with Catholic hero worship of thier saints, but below Mary. However, no moromon prays to JS and ask for his intercession with God, like Catholics pray to the Saints & Mary.

I never understood why pray to a Saint when you can ask God directly :confused:
another silly deflection. Have you ever asked a friend or family member to pray for you? I am sure you have. Why do that when you can go to God directly?

Sigh.

We ask Saints to pray us. Is that so bad?
 
I am not Mormon. And I know all about Smith worshipers. You see, my g’g’grandfather carried a rifle from Warsaw, Illinois, to the Carthage jail on June 27, 1844. I am fed up with being held personally responsible for the death of Joseph Smith.
…and just who, on this forum (or anywhere else) has held YOU personally responsible for the death of Joseph Smith?

You aren’t responsible for what your ancestors did. You ARE responsible for your pride in what they did.

By the way, claiming that you 'know all about Smith worshipers" and using as a bona fide that your ancestor was in on the mob that murdered the man is a little like claiming to know what it’s like to be black because your grandfather was in the original Ku Klux Klan.

It’s not only an illogical claim, it’s perjorative…and, by the way, inaccurate on the face of it. We do not, after all, worship Joseph Smith.
Some Mormons are liberal, on the outer edges. They are quiet about their heterodoxy, but they are there.
Of course there are. There are also Mormons who are extremist on the other side, as well. This causes a problem with our critics, who can’t seem to wrap their minds around the idea that we, well, HAVE minds, and have differing viewpoints about things, just as Catholics differ in individual beliefs and viewpoints.

It can come as a great surprise to some people that not only are there Mormons who are strict biblical creationists,there are also Mormons who are just as far to the other side in terms of evolution. I have a Darwin fish on my bumper, right next to my CTR sticker. Confuses the heck out of people.

The point is, LJ, Mormons are people who think, in spite of what the antis would prefer.
 
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