Making Abuse Allegations Public?

[jfz178]

(2) Males are more often abused? Citation?
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Try:
The Sexual Victimization of Men in America: New Data Challenge Old Assumptions
Lara Stemple JD, and Ilan H. Meyer PhD, National Institutes of Public Health

There are other studies. But let me be clear. The current research has only proven the rates are about equal. The idea that male victimization is probably higher is an inference based on that other research that indicates male rape is less reported, even in research, than female victimization. More research has to be done.

Also, I didn’t want to make it seem like a contest. All abuse is bad. What we are learning is that it is not just a problem for females.

 

[jfz178]

Some of these accusations are from women who voluntarily put themselves in compromising positions. That doesn’t excuse the abuse, but the abuse clearly would not have happened without the victims’ willing cooperation. That should mitigate things, but it does not seem to.

What “thing” should it mitigate? Not the abuser’s responsibility, that’s for sure!

To the extent a person is actually an abuser, no. But that is the problem. Sex crimes have different levels, from harassment to forcible rape. Sex crimes also have certain necessary elements and one of them is lack of consent. While the legal system has broadened the view of consent in favor of victims and that is a good thing, lack of consent still must be proven and the law requires all of the circumstances leading up to the act in question must be taken into account. That can affect whether a guilty verdict is reached and what the final conviction is for and that scale of severity.

Let’s take an example that is out of the sexual abuse context, just to depoliticize it for a moment. If and friend of mine and I are minding our own business, and we get beaten up by a gang of thugs in our own neighborhood, everyone agrees that’s aggravated assault. But if we are walking through an ethnic neighborhood, and we are openly making racial jokes and as a result, we get beaten up by a gang of thugs, it is the same crime, Those thugs still had no right to beat us up. But it will not likely be seen that way in court. We will be seen as having provoked the assault by our actions and that will mitigate the outcome.

That is the law, and I applies to any criminal charge.

 

[alice24]

The whole me too thing works for people who are safe because of their media status, often.
Often enough it´s not a matter of the victim´s wishes to stay silent, it´s a matter of reputation and security- reputation, because sadly, many abusers profit from social structures leading to abuse they still have in their hands after the crime stopped.

For example:
I was physically, sexually and mentally abused by an ex-boyfriend for years. He has good social reputation, contacts to the police, works safely for the gouvernment and owns weapons.

When I finally spared some money and mental stability to leave, I had nothing. The emergency center for women offerd me a lawyer, but protection by the police is something not that secure you may think, and they told me openly a trial would end in …no consequences for him. As I had no proofs. I am at the start of an academic career, so I feared him talking bad about me at the wrong places. I had to work the same time to not lose my job, and the adress of my workplace is public.
So, I had to let it go. I forgave him, but this is personal. A public theme should be that some women are just to poor or not medial important enough to be that bold.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

To the extent a person is actually an abuser, no. But that is the problem. Sex crimes have different levels, from harassment to forcible rape. Sex crimes also have certain necessary elements and one of them is lack of consent. While the legal system has broadened the view of consent in favor of victims and that is a good thing, lack of consent still must be proven and the law requires all of the circumstances leading up to the act in question must be taken into account. That can affect whether a guilty verdict is reached and what the final conviction is for and that scale of severity.

Let’s take an example that is out of the sexual abuse context, just to depoliticize it for a moment. If and friend of mine and I are minding our own business, and we get beaten up by a gang of thugs in our own neighborhood, everyone agrees that’s aggravated assault. But if we are walking through an ethnic neighborhood, and we are openly making racial jokes and as a result, we get beaten up by a gang of thugs, it is the same crime, Those thugs still had no right to beat us up. But it will not likely be seen that way in court. We will be seen as having provoked the assault by our actions and that will mitigate the outcome.

The two situations are different. Violence is a fitting response to violence – a violent action in response to a violent word. (This doesn’t mean I think it is right; it is fitting). Violence is not a fitting response to a woman’s looking sexy, or even to a woman’s flirting. Surely there are cases where a woman will, after the fact, portray consensual actions as nonconsensual – that is an AWFUL thing for her to do. But if we stipulate, as you did above, that the action of sexual abuse is the same, then I simply do not see any action the woman could have taken that would mitigate the abuse. To be fair, I suppose some actions might make it punished less severely. But in the assault case, I can imagine cases where we would not convict the assaulter at all, using common sense. I guess I just don’t see common sense as ever telling us to not convict a rapist.

 

[jfz178]

I think you have answered your own question, if there was actually a question there. I don’t have a problem with it.

 

[Mary67]

I think saying that women “put themselves in compromising positions” is basically saying they were asking for it, which they weren’t. No matter what they did, if they said “no” and/or they didn’t consent then the abuse is 100% NOT their fault. I really dislike this sentiment. I find it way too much in conservitve circles and it’s awful. No one would blame Maria Goretti for what happened to her, but only because she was murdered. If she wasn’t murdered I wonder if people would have believed what happened to her.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I am completely against sexual harassment and abuse. I do have some concerns about all this, though.

• Some of these accusations are from women who voluntarily put themselves in compromising positions. That doesn’t excuse the abuse, but the abuse clearly would not have happened without the victims’ willing cooperation. That should mitigate things, but it does not seem to.
• There seems to be a lack of due process here. Abusers are sometimes being convicted in the court of public opinion without convincing evidence and without their day in court. Most accusations are probably true, but we know not all of them are. Also some of the accusations I have seen are not actually crimes, but gross insensitivity. But the public penalty is the same.
• For the rich and famous, accusers have a clear profit motive, potential civil suit awards, which has a lower standard of proof. This is a contributing factor to the one above.
• There is a big disparity in how much we seem to care, depending on who the abuser is and who the victim is. Celebrities, we really care. But why should we care about them more than others? Average people, we care a little. But there is a bigger group no one is even talking about. Recent research has highlighted that former statistics have ignored males as victims and showed that surprisingly. males are more often victims of sexual harassment and abuse than females. The issue has been those instances are predominantly in prison and the military, so they are not counted. And no one seems to care about those victims at all.

Isn’t it a bit two-faced to say that “women voluntarily put themselves in compromising positions” but then highlight male abuse and harassment in the military and prisons–two places where males tend to “put themselves”?

Also can you cite your facts about males? Perhaps this is true in isolated segments of the population (military, prisons) but last I recall it’s 1 in 3 women and 1 and 5 men in the US inclusive of all populations that have been assaulted or abused sexually. In addition abuse of women was far more likely to occur before the age of 16 whereas with men a majority of the abuse occured under the age of 25.