Making gay jokes sinful?

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TomD123

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Ok so this is a tough question thats been bothering me…
Is making “gay” jokes sinful?

Let me clarify what I mean:
I am not talking about making fun of gays to their faces or when they are around.
I am not talking about going up to a feminine guy and saying “youre such a (insert gay insult)”

I would think the above could be hurtful.

Also, I am not talking about making fun of a specific gay person, even behind their back…(I’m talking if they have SSA not if they are active ‘in your face’ about it, in which case thats a different issue)
So if I knew a guy joe bloe and he was gay I wouldn’t think it was okay to snicker behind his back about how gay he was or something…that wouldn’t be right. Even if he wasn’t necessarily chaste, I sitll don’t think thats a good idea.

So when I say making gay jokes I’m talking about calling your friends gay (or similar) or making fun of gay activity.

The reason I am stuck is this: I know that its not okay to really make fun of anyone or hurt anyone. But when no one is around and friends and I (I am a highschool kid) joke around with each other for fun and insult each other (with whatever insult) is it okay to include “gay insults” ? I don’t mean to offend anyone but its just another joke we have…so I am stuck because it seems like someone could be offended if they heard…but does that alone make the action wrong? I don’t see it as making fun of people but more making fun of the activity or gayness itself.

What do you think and why?
Thanks!
 
No, it is never okay. A person has an inherant dignity that is compromised by jokes made at their expense. It doesn’t matter if it is directed at a specific homosexual. Jokes made about homsexauls in general hurt the dignity of homosexual in general. It demonstrates a lack of respect for God and His creation, regardless of what doesn’t live up to your (or His) expectations.
Pax.
 
two comments:
  1. Substitute "black’ “spanish” “female” “chinese” “handicapped” “Jewish”, in short any group of people different that you and your friends and you have answered your own question.
  2. If you and your friends think it is funny and get your kicks out of making “fun” of others, what makes you think your friends don’t make fun of you when you are not there?
It’s easy to treat others with dignity when they are in the room. It is a sign of maturity and having a sense of decency to do so when others are NOT in the room
 
Even if I tell “Gay jokes” to another heterosexual in private I am changing my way of being in the world. I am showing another person that I think it’s OK to demean others, and I am allowing myself to accept the “me” that demeans others. I am making myself lesser.

The sin bounces back on me, and hurts me ultimately.
 
When someone is making “gay jokes”, they are either making light of a serious sin, or dehumanizing a group of people. I can’t think of any circumstance where it isn’t harmful.
 
thanks for hte answers so far, but I am having trouble understanding some things. To begin with, the idea that a homosexual is a specific type of person sort of rubs me the wrong way, I don’t see them as a specific “group” I see individuals who have ssa but they aren’t defined by this…

also, my comments in bold below
coachdennis said:
two comments:
  1. Substitute "black’ “spanish” “female” “chinese” “handicapped” “Jewish”, in short any group of people different that you and your friends and you have answered your own question. **Well actually I didn’t think these would be wrong (other than Jewish) if not mean spirited. Actually that I would be pretty sure of. I’m italian and happily make jokes about that because its just part of being a certain ethnicity…but besides that homosexuality is different because “black” is not inherently dissordered but gay is. **
  2. If you and your friends think it is funny and get your kicks out of making “fun” of others, what makes you think your friends don’t make fun of you when you are not there? True but that’s why I wouldn’t think it is right to make fun of a person. I’m wondering is it okay to make fun of the orientation?
Click to expand...
Here is what I am confused by though, if it is not right to call someone “gay” would it be wrong to call someone “stupid” or “fat” or “ugly” or “unathletic”
I’m talking about friends doing uplifting stuff to each other here. there are plently of fat, stupid, ugly, and unathletic people…does that make these insults wrong. If that is the case is teasing a friend just always wrong even if it is in good spirit because there are some people who are truly described by the insult?
 
Allegra said:
When someone is making “gay jokes”, they are either making light of a serious sin, or dehumanizing a group of people. I can’t think of any circumstance where it isn’t harmful.
Click to expand...
Ok this is another thing that is confusing to me. Is making fun of the sin “making light” of it or is it riddiculing and deriding it. Surely the devil hates to be mocked.
 
TomD123 said:
thanks for hte answers so far, but I am having trouble understanding some things. To begin with, the idea that a homosexual is a specific type of person sort of rubs me the wrong way, I don’t see them as a specific “group” I see individuals who have ssa but they aren’t defined by this…

also, my comments in bold below

Here is what I am confused by though, if it is not right to call someone “gay” would it be wrong to call someone “stupid” or “fat” or “ugly” or “unathletic”
I’m talking about friends doing uplifting stuff to each other here. there are plently of fat, stupid, ugly, and unathletic people…does that make these insults wrong. If that is the case is teasing a friend just always wrong even if it is in good spirit because there are some people who are truly described by the insult?
Click to expand...
Words Hurt people! Individual or part of a group.

People who are or are considered by you and your friends stupid, fat, ugly, or unathlethic KNOW that already about themselves and while they might laugh about it themselves, they feel the pain daily of being laughed at as not being part of the majority, accepted, “cool” people.

Your “good spirit” teasing – do you really, honestly think that is bringing the love of Christ to their lives? Is “good spirited” teasing the Christian example you want to leave someone else with?

Quite honestly, Why are you having such a problem with this? Why would you consider such behavior uplifting?
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
Tough to think of jokes that bring glory to God. But I dunno, a lot of what we do doesn’t bring glory to God.
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I would think a joke may bring glory to God if it strengthens a relationship or relaxes the mind. This would be of course if the joke itself was not immoral…and thats the question of the “insult” jokes or “gay” jokes.
coachdennis said:
Words Hurt people! Individual or part of a group.

People who are or are considered by you and your friends stupid, fat, ugly, or unathlethic KNOW that already about themselves and while they might laugh about it themselves, they feel the pain daily of being laughed at as not being part of the majority, accepted, “cool” people.

Your “good spirit” teasing – do you really, honestly think that is bringing the love of Christ to their lives? Is “good spirited” teasing the Christian example you want to leave someone else with? I wouldn’t tease anyone who was gay about that. I wouldn’t tease a fat person about being fat. I wouldn’t tease an unathletic person about being unathletic, other than myself. I’m talking about something like just teasing someone for being dumb when in reality they aren’t and they know it and its all done as a tease.

Quite honestly, Why are you having such a problem with this? Why would you consider such behavior uplifting?
Click to expand...
The reason I am having a problem with this is I am having trouble understanding what it is permissable to joke about vs. what is immoral and why…

Also, is it ever moral to TEASE anyone. I would think it is but then the problem becomes if you tease someone, you are using insults that may be realities for other people
 
TomD123 said:
I would think a joke may bring glory to God if it strengthens a relationship or relaxes the mind. This would be of course if the joke itself was not immoral…and thats the question of the “insult” jokes or “gay” jokes.

The reason I am having a problem with this is I am having trouble understanding what it is permissable to joke about vs. what is immoral and why…

Also, is it ever moral to TEASE anyone. I would think it is but then the problem becomes if you tease someone, you are using insults that may be realities for other people
Click to expand...
I truly believe that you are looking to handle this situation in the best way. Humor is a very difficult emotion because more often than not, it DOES involve pointing out the faults in the *actions *of others. However looking at the actions almost always leads to denegrating *the person *because of he or she just is. As you say, these involve insults that are realities to others.

The definition of insult is" to treat or speak to insolently or with contemptuous rudeness; affront." according to dictionary.com. It seems to me from that definition the morality of the situation becomes clear.
 
TomD123 said:
Ok this is another thing that is confusing to me. Is making fun of the sin “making light” of it or is it riddiculing and deriding it. Surely the devil hates to be mocked.
Click to expand...
It could be either or even both, depending on what is said.
 
TomD123 said:
Ok so this is a tough question thats been bothering me…
Is making “gay” jokes sinful?

Let me clarify what I mean:
I am not talking about making fun of gays to their faces or when they are around.
I am not talking about going up to a feminine guy and saying “youre such a (insert gay insult)”

I would think the above could be hurtful.

Also, I am not talking about making fun of a specific gay person, even behind their back…(I’m talking if they have SSA not if they are active ‘in your face’ about it, in which case thats a different issue)
So if I knew a guy joe bloe and he was gay I wouldn’t think it was okay to snicker behind his back about how gay he was or something…that wouldn’t be right. Even if he wasn’t necessarily chaste, I sitll don’t think thats a good idea.

So when I say making gay jokes I’m talking about calling your friends gay (or similar) or making fun of gay activity.

The reason I am stuck is this: I know that its not okay to really make fun of anyone or hurt anyone. But when no one is around and friends and I (I am a highschool kid) joke around with each other for fun and insult each other (with whatever insult) is it okay to include “gay insults” ? I don’t mean to offend anyone but its just another joke we have…so I am stuck because it seems like someone could be offended if they heard…but does that alone make the action wrong? I don’t see it as making fun of people but more making fun of the activity or gayness itself.

What do you think and why?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
While I don’t necessarily mind non-PC jokes or language myself, the problem here is keeping everyone in on the joke on the same page–which can be difficult, especially in public. By all means have a laugh, but you need to be aware of who you’re talking to (including everyone who can hear you) and respect the fact that even if you’re well-intentioned, some people might not find it funny. It might be best to avoid this altogether.
 
Well, I am a chaste, bisexual woman (married in the Church to a wonderful man) and I think that I may have some insight on this that heterosexuals may not see. Gay and bisexual people are stereotyped all the time, made fun of, have jokes made about us, are falsely accused of all sorts of things, ect. Gay jokes (or bisexual jokes) are generally offensive especially when it is coming from someone who doesn’t know what it is like to struggle with same sex attraction. It is poking fun at a group and it can be very hurtful.

Another thing, is that you don’t know who is gay, bisexual, straight, or whatever. Most of the stereotypes are just that, stereotypes and inaccurate and hurtful. Many people with same sex attraction do not come out about it because of how other people talk about it, because of those jokes, out of fear of being out-casted, ect. I know I haven’t come out to my family or friends (other than my husband) for the reason of comments made by them about bisexuals and jokes they have made. Now that I am married, I probably never will. You never know how much your words affect others.
 
coachdennis said:
two comments:
  1. Substitute "black’ “spanish” “female” “chinese” “handicapped” “Jewish”, in short any group of people different that you and your friends and you have answered your own question…
Click to expand...
This is the real point, jokes most of the time target some class people for one reason or another. As long as we protect one class of people but not another we are bigots. For example I hear a lot of jokes about men, especially fathers, being stupid, that is quite common in commercials. Is that any better? Is the joke about the fat person acceptable, what about the one regarding the “know it all kid” or science nerds? What about ad hominem jokes like the ones regarding Obama or Romney? What about the blonde jokes, or Protestant vs. Catholics jokes. Are people exempted from ridicule just because they are? If the answer is yes then all the posters should be extremely careful from now on.
 
Cristiano said:
This is the real point, jokes most of the time target some class people for one reason or another. As long as we protect one class of people but not another we are bigots. For example I hear a lot of jokes about men, especially fathers, being stupid, that is quite common in commercials. Is that any better? Is the joke about the fat person acceptable, what about the one regarding the “know it all kid” or science nerds? What about ad hominem jokes like the ones regarding Obama or Romney? What about the blonde jokes, or Protestant vs. Catholics jokes. Are people exempted from ridicule just because they are? If the answer is yes then all the posters should be extremely careful from now on.
Click to expand...
While I certainly agree with your advice and that from other posters, I don’t necessarily think that kind of humour is always offensive. Actually, the most comfortable multi-identity enviornment I’ve been in was one where everyone had a go at everyone else’s gender/race/religion. As a matter of fact I think political correctness can sometimes be unnecessarily divisive and even offensive.
 
Bezant said:
While I certainly agree with your advice and that from other posters, I don’t necessarily think that kind of humour is always offensive. Actually, the most comfortable multi-identity enviornment I’ve been in was one where everyone had a go at everyone else’s gender/race/religion. As a matter of fact I think political correctness can sometimes be unnecessarily divisive and even offensive.
Click to expand...
I think that something offensive to the person on the receiving line might not be offensive to the person on the sending line. I understand your point and I remember a person that called himself an equal opportunity bigot, he made jokes about everything and everybody, he made a lot of people laugh but I am also sure that he offended a lot of other people.
 
TomD123 said:
Ok so this is a tough question thats been bothering me…
Is making “gay” jokes sinful?

Let me clarify what I mean:
I am not talking about making fun of gays to their faces or when they are around.
I am not talking about going up to a feminine guy and saying “youre such a (insert gay insult)”

I would think the above could be hurtful.

Also, I am not talking about making fun of a specific gay person, even behind their back…(I’m talking if they have SSA not if they are active ‘in your face’ about it, in which case thats a different issue)
So if I knew a guy joe bloe and he was gay I wouldn’t think it was okay to snicker behind his back about how gay he was or something…that wouldn’t be right. Even if he wasn’t necessarily chaste, I sitll don’t think thats a good idea.

So when I say making gay jokes I’m talking about calling your friends gay (or similar) or making fun of gay activity.

The reason I am stuck is this: I know that its not okay to really make fun of anyone or hurt anyone. But when no one is around and friends and I (I am a highschool kid) joke around with each other for fun and insult each other (with whatever insult) is it okay to include “gay insults” ? I don’t mean to offend anyone but its just another joke we have…so I am stuck because it seems like someone could be offended if they heard…but does that alone make the action wrong? I don’t see it as making fun of people but more making fun of the activity or gayness itself.

What do you think and why?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
I think so often HS kids can be cruel without giving it a thought. I went to a largeish school (800 in my class). The film and TV show Friday Night Lights are based on my HS. The football team and cheerleaders were the elite and no one else mattered. We “normal” students when thought of at all were always the butt of jokes, cruel jokes from the “elite”.

I was picked on, made fun of, and physically harrased because I was skinny and unatheltic, I was even called f@g which is and was a lie.

Going to college was difficult becuase of the low academic standards of that school. It is true as mentioned in the book Friday Night Lights that more was spent on bandages and wraps for the football team than was spent on the whole English department.

You wouldn’t by chance happen to be a football player?
 
Okay I understand what everyone is saying. I wouldn’t tell a joke in front of anyone that would be offensive…I’m asking more about when youre with a friend and you call him dubm or a loser or gay or whatever…now of course I don’t think teasing is wrong, Im talking more about the content of the joke itself, is somehow using specific content bad? It seems like teh consensus is yes.
andrewstx said:
I think so often HS kids can be cruel without giving it a thought. I went to a largeish school (800 in my class). The film and TV show Friday Night Lights are based on my HS. The football team and cheerleaders were the elite and no one else mattered. **We “normal” students when thought of at all were always the butt of jokes, cruel jokes from the “elite”.
**
I was picked on, made fun of, and physically harrased because I was skinny and unatheltic, I was even called f@g which is and was a lie.

Going to college was difficult becuase of the low academic standards of that school. It is true as mentioned in the book Friday Night Lights that more was spent on bandages and wraps for the football team than was spent on the whole English department.

You wouldn’t by chance happen to be a football player?
Click to expand...
(emphasis in bold mine above)
Yeah I don’t think that’s right by any means…now I don’t consider myself super popular but I’m not bullied either. I don’t think anyone should be made the object of mockery ever and I wouldn’t do that…for example I would never make fun of an ugly girl behind her back.

I am a senior now, I used to play football for 3 years. I however was by no means good at all in any way. Hence I often joke about my athletic ability …actually its really a running joke between me and many of my friends. Plus my school’s football program you can’t get cut but I assure you I cannot consider myself an athlete…
 
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