Making of a Murderer

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Anyone seen this on Netflix? It shows how unjust our justice system can be, Also all the good old boys mentality in law enforcement. Riveting. Please watch it if you can.

Being falsely accused is a horrible thing and the accusers are terrible sinners.
 
Anyone seen this on Netflix? It shows how unjust our justice system can be, Also all the good old boys mentality in law enforcement. Riveting. Please watch it if you can.

Being falsely accused is a horrible thing and the accusers are terrible sinners.
I saw this on Netflix and thought it looked intriguing. I wasn’t exactly sure what the premise was.
 
another good show I’ve found is Daredevil. It has some swearing and violence but the guy is Catholic and talks to a priest a lot, even going to confession several times during different episodes. Thanks for your suggestion on “Making of a Murderer,” I’ll check it out
 
I watched it based on a friend’s recommendation. It was very compelling. While the evidence against him, on its surface, is hard to overcome, the circumstances around the case make it hard to believe that he received a fair trial. There’s currently a petition on petitions.whitehouse.gov titled “Investigate and pardon the Averys in Wisconsin and punish the corrupt officials who railroaded these innocent men.” I really hope both he and his nephew get another chance to prove their innocence.
 
I haven’t watched this yet, but plan to.

The VERY BEST one in this genre I can’t RECOMMEND ENOUGH is

An Unreal Dream: The Michael Morton Story (2013)
90 min | Documentary, Biography, Crime | 11 March 2013

You can see it on Amazon or on Netflix

He describes how he met God and learned forgiveness during his prison sentence and it’s unforgettable.

Here is the trailer:

youtube.com/watch?v=iuqS_5-tUKA
 
I watched it based on a friend’s recommendation. It was very compelling. While the evidence against him, on its surface, is hard to overcome, the circumstances around the case make it hard to believe that he received a fair trial. There’s currently a petition on petitions.whitehouse.gov titled “Investigate and pardon the Averys in Wisconsin and punish the corrupt officials who railroaded these innocent men.” I really hope both he and his nephew get another chance to prove their innocence.
Yes I signed that petition. I really feel sorry for the nephew who was obviously coerced into confession of the crime. It makes me realize how much we all need to stay away from the “systems” such as the criminal justice system. Once you are in them or on the wrong side of them, you are basically doomed.

“Making of a Murderer” will really leave you angry if you hate injustice. Thanks for the other suggestions for shows too. Netflix has some good ones!
 
Yes I signed that petition. I really feel sorry for the nephew who was obviously coerced into confession of the crime. It makes me realize how much we all need to stay away from the “systems” such as the criminal justice system. Once you are in them or on the wrong side of them, you are basically doomed.

“Making of a Murderer” will really leave you angry if you hate injustice. Thanks for the other suggestions for shows too. Netflix has some good ones!
One thing about the case is that, even if you believe the uncle is guilty, there’s no way you can watch what happened to the nephew and believe that he was involved in any way. I felt so sorry for the one lawyer who said that a big part of him hoped Avery was guilty because he didn’t know if he could cope with the idea of him being falsely imprisoned a second time.

My personal belief is that neither of them are guilty. I know a lot of people have a hard time believing that the police would plant evidence and engage in a cover up, but putting the circumstances of this case aside, I once talked to a judge, several prosecutors and a couple policemen about a case where someone was persuaded to forego a lawyer and confess to a crime after being promised (among other things) that they wouldn’t face charges. They all very matter-of-factly said that the division involved lies, cheats and coerces their way into convictions all the time. It wasn’t a hush-hush thing, either. They were all extremely open about it and even the judge said, “Oh, yeah, everyone knows that.” They actually made me feel a little stupid for not knowing that it was such common knowledge. If you can have an entire crime division in a major city that openly flaunts the law to the point where everyone in the system knows about and accepts it, is it really a stretch to believe that a small-town sheriff’s office with a history of corruption and a vendetta/active litigation with the object of their previous corruption would falsify evidence?

I have to second the recommendation for the Michael Morton story. It’s fantastic.
 
One thing about the case is that, even if you believe the uncle is guilty, there’s no way you can watch what happened to the nephew and believe that he was involved in any way. I felt so sorry for the one lawyer who said that a big part of him hoped Avery was guilty because he didn’t know if he could cope with the idea of him being falsely imprisoned a second time.

My personal belief is that neither of them are guilty. I know a lot of people have a hard time believing that the police would plant evidence and engage in a cover up, but putting the circumstances of this case aside, I once talked to a judge, several prosecutors and a couple policemen about a case where someone was persuaded to forego a lawyer and confess to a crime after being promised (among other things) that they wouldn’t face charges. They all very matter-of-factly said that the division involved lies, cheats and coerces their way into convictions all the time. It wasn’t a hush-hush thing, either. They were all extremely open about it and even the judge said, “Oh, yeah, everyone knows that.” They actually made me feel a little stupid for not knowing that it was such common knowledge. If you can have an entire crime division in a major city that openly flaunts the law to the point where everyone in the system knows about and accepts it, is it really a stretch to believe that a small-town sheriff’s office with a history of corruption and a vendetta/active litigation with the object of their previous corruption would falsify evidence?

I have to second the recommendation for the Michael Morton story. It’s fantastic.
Yes I saw that too. So good about him finding God. I hate injustice. It is the worst thing about this world.
 
Yes I signed that petition. I really feel sorry for the nephew who was obviously coerced into confession of the crime. It makes me realize how much we all need to stay away from the “systems” such as the criminal justice system. Once you are in them or on the wrong side of them, you are basically doomed.

“Making of a Murderer” will really leave you angry if you hate injustice. Thanks for the other suggestions for shows too. Netflix has some good ones!
I’m up to episode 8 and I can’t believe what is going on. Just watching the nephew’s interrogation made me sick. His first lawyer should be disbarred.
 
I’ve read a couple articles about the so-called damning evidence that allegedly undoes everything presented in Making a Murderer. While some of it gave me pause at first, after thinking about it and reading some of what Dan Strang said in response, I don’t think it amounts to much. It certainly doesn’t overcome the issues I have with the overall case.

SPOILERS

SPOILERS


Aside from that fact that, going into the second trial, it was a clear and undeniable fact that the local authorities had unjustly jailed him previously despite having overwhelming, solid evidence that he was innocent, had ignored subsequent proof that they had the wrong guy imprisoned, and were also in the midst of litigation over the previous case, there were a few things that stood out to me that were never adequately answered. A big one is when Colsom called in a license plate check on 11/3. If you listen to the call it clearly sounds as though he has the vehicle in front of him. If so, that indicates he found her car two days before it was discovered. If Lenk had given him both the plate number and a description of the car prior to that, why on earth would he need to call it in? There’d be absolutely no need to because he’d have that information on hand.

Regardless of what Kratz said in his closing arguments, the key is such a big deal that, if I were on a jury, it was enough to give me reasonable doubt. And it’s far from the biggest issue. However, they searched his bedroom seven times, which included them emptying out the nightstand at least twice (and photographing it at least once), and they never found it. It wasn’t found until Lenk and Colsom had pretty much free reign in the room. Plus, although it was covered in Avery’s DNA, it had none of Halbach’s DNA on it. There’s literally no legitimate, natural way for that to occur.

The vial of blood, in my mind, is a far bigger deal than the key. Not only had it clearly been tampered with, but someone had clearly removed some of it and not documented it. You’re dealing with an undeniably corrupt, or at least unethical police department. If the key isn’t enough for reasonable doubt, the vial most certainly is.

The biggest issue (and these four points aren’t all the problems I have) is the complete and total lack of Teresa Halbach’s DNA in the home and garage (excluding the suspicious bullet fragment). No matter which prosecution theory you want to go with, this had to have been a violent, excessively bloody murder. The quip about them having five days to clean up is ridiculous. If she really was stabbed and had her throat slit in the bedroom, the mattress would have been saturated. There would have been blood all over the place. They would have had to have gutted the entire bedroom to remove all traces of her DNA. Their final theory was that she was killed in the garage, being shot either 5 or 11 times. The garage was a mess. There’s no way the could have cleaned everything in there. There would have been blood spatter everywhere. It wouldn’t have been a matter of having to search for her DNA. Pretty much everything they swabbed would have given a positive result. Yet the only DNA they found was an undetermined variety of DNA found via a compromised/tainted test on a bullet fragment that was missed in multiple searches and not found until Lenk and Colsom were left virtually unattended in the garage.

END SPOILERS
END SPOILERS


No matter how you slice it, the case has some gaping holes in it.
 
According to what I heard on Fox News…

The person that made the documentary left out a lot of evidence that did not support their view.

No, I don’t remember what, and no, I haven’t seen it on Netflix.

Just saying that there are things to consider.
 
There’s currently a petition on petitions.whitehouse.gov titled “Investigate and pardon the Averys in Wisconsin and punish the corrupt officials who railroaded these innocent men.” I really hope both he and his nephew get another chance to prove their innocence.
A petition is not going to do anything.

If there is enough evidence to reopen a case on appeal, then they will be given a chance to prove their innocence.
 
According to what I heard on Fox News…

The person that made the documentary left out a lot of evidence that did not support their view.

No, I don’t remember what, and no, I haven’t seen it on Netflix.

Just saying that there are things to consider.
One piece of evidence is that there was some of Avery’s DNA on the latch of the hood of Halbach’s car. That supports one detail of Brendan’s coerced and likely false confession that was left out of the documentary. The DA in his email said this was sweat; Avery’s attorney said it wasn’t determined to be sweat or blood. Either way, there wasn’t a single fingerprint left on the SUV by either Brendan or Avery, despite both of them allegedly being in it and attempting to disable it. The prosecution theory is that the blood in the SUV came from a cut on Avery’s finger, but that no fingerprints were left because he wore gloves the whole time. If you can figure out how he can leave tiny traces of blood while wearing gloves, you’ve got the case solved.

Another piece of evidence was that a few months before the murder, Avery had purchased handcuffs and leg irons like those described in Brendan’s confession, even he claimed ropes were used in one of his confessions, and in the drawing he made of the alleged crime scene. There was no DNA found on the cuffs or leg irons and no damage done to the bed despite her allegedly fighting for her life while being restrained.

The prosecution tried to portray Avery as obsessed with Halbach. She had been out to his home numerous times to photograph vehicles. He was familiar with her and requested her. The prosecution said that after one occasion where she showed up while he was taking a shower and he answered the door wearing nothing but a towel, she complained to her boss, said she was afraid and begged not to go back. Avery’s lawyer said the actual testimony from two of her coworkers was that her reaction was more of an “ew!” and that she never requested to not go back. The prosecution also stated that Avery called her three times the day she disappeared: twice using *67 and pretending to be someone else to get her out to his property, then once without hiding his identity two hours after she left. The prosecution asserts that this was done to trick her into going to his property and that the later call was to establish an alibi. It’s a pretty sophisticated plan for a man with an IQ of 70. You’d think that if he had the foresight to do that, he would have also been smart enough to crush her car in the car crusher on his property he was using the day before, and that he’d have burned her in his smelter which would have destroyed her body completely.

The prosecution also claimed that Avery told another inmate about his plan to build a torture pit where he could torture, rape and kill women after he got out. Hearsay from felons looking for special treatment is always reliable.

There are lots of other things to keep in mind. There’s no disputing the fact that this sheriff’s department had a history of corruption and bias. The prosecutor’s behavior was so egregious that there’s a valid argument for him to have been brought up on charges of prosecutorial misconduct. He was later brought up on sex charges and can no longer practice. There was no presumption of innocence in this case by any of the officials involved. No other suspects were investigated and they made repeated comments about how they believed Avery was guilty of the rape of which he was exonerated. They also made numerous comments about his escalating behavior, implying that the rape he didn’t commit was another step in that escalation. One juror was related to an employee of the sheriff’s department and another was related to an employee of the county clerk’s office. The excused juror has repeatedly claimed that three of the jurors were determined to find him guilty regardless of any evidence. Another juror has since come forth saying that most of the jurors thought he was innocent but they were so afraid of either the other jurors or repercussions from the county that they agreed to compromise and vote trading.
 
Very intriguing show, I know I got sucked in to a marathon of episodes!!

It reminded me quite a bit of the first season of the podcast Serial, which told the story of then high school student Adnan Syed after the death of his ex-girlfriend.

I feel one of the major takeaways from both shows wasn’t that they proved without a doubt that the people were guilty or innocent, but they both gave a very interesting look into what can go wrong in trials - attorneys overlooking details that would have benefited their cases, evidence maybe not being as convincing as it first appeared, biased testimony, etc. I think for me these both made me think about whether or not the parties received fair trials more than if they were guilty or innocent. Of course trying to determine guilt or innocence is another aspect of watching, and viewers probably change their mind on that a few times while watching/listening (I still go back and forth on how I feel about Adnan’s involvement, and I finished listening to the podcast a year ago!)
 
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