Making peace with debt

[DarkLight]

This isn’t a question about managing debt - I understand that. This is a question about living at peace with life as it is, not as you want it.

I have a lot of debt on my shoulders right now. I don’t feel like it’s something I could have avoided. I feel like I’ve been good and responsible and I just had really really terrible luck and ended up in debt.

The reality is, I feel like I worked hard to be in the same situation as the kids that party it up and use student loans to finance their spring breaks in mexico. And that’s really discouraging. I feel like I’ve signed away years of my life just to paying down debt, years that will keep me from ever considering a vocation, years that I won’t be able to offer to doing the ministries that I want.

I’m deeply angry that I was forced to take on thousands and thousands of debt. I feel like I have to work twice as hard as most people my age to have anywhere near the same chance. I’m not in a high-earning field and I don’t want to live the rest of my life bound to the debt of circumstances I fought so hard to escape.

I want to put my past behind me, but the debt just feels like a ball and chain that I never wanted and got stuck with. Part of me starts to wonder why I should care about being responsible if this is where I end up. How do I get past this?

 

[1ke]

.How do I get past this?

You start by taking responsibility for your debt and the choices you made. The language you use in your post attempts to avoid responsibility-- words like

• I don’t feel like it’s something I could have avoided
• I’m deeply angry that I was forced to take on thousands and thousands of debt
• I’m not in a high-earning field
• I don’t want to live the rest of my life bound to the debt of circumstances
• I never wanted and got stuck with

Thousands and thousands of dollars of debt don’t simply happen magically while you are asleep one night. With the exception of large medical debt incurred in circumstances beyond our control, debt is basically a choice we make. Medical debt in such circumstances may be a candidate for bankruptcy protection.

Debt wasn’t done TO you, it was done BY you. So, owning it as your own choice is the first step to moving beyond the victim statements and towards setting your mind and focus on paying it off and moving beyond it.

You can do it. Set your mind to it and get it paid off.

 

[DarkLight]

You start by taking responsibility for your debt and the choices you made. The language you use in your post attempts to avoid responsibility-- words like

• I don’t feel like it’s something I could have avoided
• I’m deeply angry that I was forced to take on thousands and thousands of debt
• I’m not in a high-earning field
• I don’t want to live the rest of my life bound to the debt of circumstances
• I never wanted and got stuck with

Thousands and thousands of dollars of debt don’t simply happen magically while you are asleep one night. With the exception of large medical debt incurred in circumstances beyond our control, debt is basically a choice we make. Medical debt in such circumstances may be a candidate for bankruptcy protection.

Debt wasn’t done TO you, it was done BY you. So, owning it as your own choice is the first step to moving beyond the victim statements and towards setting your mind and focus on paying it off and moving beyond it.

You can do it. Set your mind to it and get it paid off.

I didn’t choose to be too sick to work. I didn’t choose to have a family I couldn’t go back to. As far as I chose, I chose because it was the only way to stay off the streets, because dragging myself to 1 class a week (not even doing the work) enabled me to get enough student loans to pay the rent and have food on the table. I didn’t even choose for this all to happen in a state that had practically no protection for single young adults. I didn’t choose to get PTSD, I didn’t choose to be thrown out as a slut for what wasn’t my fault - someone else chose those for me, and I pay for their sins.

 

[DarkLight]

You start by taking responsibility for your debt and the choices you made. The language you use in your post attempts to avoid responsibility-- words like

• I don’t feel like it’s something I could have avoided
• I’m deeply angry that I was forced to take on thousands and thousands of debt
• I’m not in a high-earning field
• I don’t want to live the rest of my life bound to the debt of circumstances
• I never wanted and got stuck with

Thousands and thousands of dollars of debt don’t simply happen magically while you are asleep one night. With the exception of large medical debt incurred in circumstances beyond our control, debt is basically a choice we make. Medical debt in such circumstances may be a candidate for bankruptcy protection.

Debt wasn’t done TO you, it was done BY you. So, owning it as your own choice is the first step to moving beyond the victim statements and towards setting your mind and focus on paying it off and moving beyond it.

You can do it. Set your mind to it and get it paid off.

But thanks for the reminder that I’m just a stupid irresponsible kid for having debt. This sort of response is why I can’t make peace - because I can’t make peace when unless I bare all the details of my life I’m treated like a stupid kid who can’t manage money when I’m twice as responsible as most of the adults I know.

I don’t want to live like that. I don’t want to be “responsible” in a world that treats me as just another dumb kid. I face enough being on welfare when I don’t look like someone who should be on it. I face enough not being able to attend mass as much as I would like because I get too sick to go many days. I’m sick of living like this, where people assume stupid things about me and judge me because they’ve been fed lies about responsibility and think people like me are just lazy little cheats.

 

[MSSheBear]

I have followed enough of your posts to realize that you did the best you could. One day you should be able to pay off the debt. In the meantime, I will be praying for you.

 

[DarkLight]

I have followed enough of your posts to realize that you did the best you could. One day you should be able to pay off the debt. In the meantime, I will be praying for you.

Appreciated. I’m at a nasty point where I can’t do anything to pay down the debt due to my health, but it’s still accruing interest that I’m eventually doing to have to pay down. And I feel like that’s wearing on me even more.

 

[1ke]

But thanks for the reminder that I’m just a stupid irresponsible kid for having debt. This sort of response is why I can’t make peace - because I can’t make peace when unless I bare all the details of my life I’m treated like a stupid kid who can’t manage money when I’m twice as responsible as most of the adults I know.

I don’t want to live like that. I don’t want to be “responsible” in a world that treats me as just another dumb kid. I face enough being on welfare when I don’t look like someone who should be on it. I face enough not being able to attend mass as much as I would like because I get too sick to go many days. I’m sick of living like this, where people assume stupid things about me and judge me because they’ve been fed lies about responsibility and think people like me are just lazy little cheats.

I did not say you are stupid, lazy, irresponsible or a cheat. It sounds like you have had some very difficult circumstances and do have a medical situation out of your control. I am not familiar with your situation, and if I offended you I am truly sorry.

Have you looked into student loan forgiveness based on disability? Check NSLDS.

The first step to making peace with the circumstances you are in **is **to own it, not to be victimized by it. People can and do overcome terrible things, but not if they stay in a place of victimization.

Have you gotten counseling? Social services are there for those who need them, “people on welfare” don’t “look” any certain way.

 

[EasterJoy]

I didn’t choose to be too sick to work. I didn’t choose to have a family I couldn’t go back to. As far as I chose, I chose because it was the only way to stay off the streets, because dragging myself to 1 class a week (not even doing the work) enabled me to get enough student loans to pay the rent and have food on the table. I didn’t even choose for this all to happen in a state that had practically no protection for single young adults. I didn’t choose to get PTSD, I didn’t choose to be thrown out as a slut for what wasn’t my fault - someone else chose those for me, and I pay for their sins.

She did say “…With the exception of large medical debt incurred in circumstances beyond our control…,” didn’t she?

No one can change the bad things that happened to you in the past. The thing to make peace with is not the debt alone, but the whole lousy situation. Consider that Our Lady knew that she could have been “thrown out as a slut” for accepting God’s plan for her. Our Lord accepted to die in order to pay for the sins he never committed.

You could look at it this way: Perhaps your education for your ministry is already started. You are going to be someone to whom it will be hard to say, “You haven’t got the slightest idea what I’m going through.” When someone says that to you, you will have earned the place to say, “You think not? Try me.” That could make you a listener extraordinaire, and this vale of tears is short on those.

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church, of which I am a minister in accordance with God’s stewardship given to me to bring to completion for you the word of God, the mystery hidden from ages and from generations past. But now it has been manifested to his holy ones, to whom God chose to make known the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; it is Christ in you, the hope for glory. It is he whom we proclaim, admonishing everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone perfect in Christ. For this I labor and struggle, in accord with the exercise of his power working within me.
Col. 1:24-29

The Apostle Paul did not ask for his hardships; he was no masochist. He welcomed the hospitality and the care of the holy ones. This was his attitude, though:

“I rejoice greatly in the Lord that now at last you revived your concern for me. You were, of course, concerned about me but lacked an opportunity. Not that I say this because of need, for I have learned, in whatever situation I find myself, to be self-sufficient. I know indeed how to live in humble circumstances; I know also how to live with abundance. In every circumstance and in all things I have learned the secret of being well fed and of going hungry, of living in abundance and of being in need. I have the strength for everything through him who empowers me. Still, it was kind of you to share in my distress.”
Phil 4:10-14

 

[Anglewannabe]

The reality is, I feel like I worked hard to be in the same situation as the kids that party it up and use student loans to finance their spring breaks in mexico.

I can relate to feeling like that. And yes, there are times where we need to let it out. But I know from experience, it is best to let it out and then think of something else. Perhaps offer it up to God.

It is hard and often it feels like there is nothing we can do. And being told to trust God, is often the last thing we want to hear. But these are the struggles that will purify us the most if we seek out God.

Hang in there. You never know what the future will hold. And if God answers my prayers tonight, you can be sure then will be some good in your future

 

[Xantippe]

There are two basic possible outcomes:

Either

1. You will eventually make enough money to pay off your debt and you’ll pay it off.

or

1. You will not make enough money to pay off your debt and you’ll enter some sort of hardship deferral or income-based repayment plan or disability-based forgiveness (which I hope you don’t get, because if you got it, it would be because there was no hope for you).

If you don’t have the money, you don’t have the money.

Take care of your basic living expenses if that’s all you have money for. If possible and necessary, seek financial counseling from St. Vincent de Paul.

 

[SecretCatholic]

Have you considered some kind of student loan forgiveness or plan (I believe that an income-based plan ends your financial responsibility after several years of paying- even if it does not cover the total amount) or bankruptcy, if you have non-student debts that you can’t cover? Neither is immoral nor illegal. The Bible and the church, I believe, support both if necessary. This is exactly what those options are for. You shouldn’t have to be a slave to debt forever.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

It is stories like this that should bring out for all that the current form of student loan debt that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy is extraordinarily corrosive to the long term viability of our society. I feel for Darklight’s plight, many are in her position. There are better forums to discuss the in’s and the out’s of student loans, I just wanted to bring out that aspect of it briefly here.

For Darklight’s benefit, I suggest that 1ke’s perspective of owning one’s situation rather than feeling a victim of it is important. You can’t change what happened to you, but you can change your attitude about it. Good luck and God bless.

 

[Cat]

She did say “…With the exception of large medical debt incurred in circumstances beyond our control…,” didn’t she?

No one can change the bad things that happened to you in the past. The thing to make peace with is not the debt alone, but the whole lousy situation. Consider that Our Lady knew that she could have been “thrown out as a slut” for accepting God’s plan for her. Our Lord accepted to die in order to pay for the sins he never committed.

You could look at it this way: Perhaps your education for your ministry is already started. You are going to be someone to whom it will be hard to say, “You haven’t got the slightest idea what I’m going through.” When someone says that to you, you will have earned the place to say, “You think not? Try me.” That could make you a listener extraordinaire, and this vale of tears is short on those.

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church, of which I am a minister in accordance with God’s stewardship given to me to bring to completion for you the word of God, the mystery hidden from ages and from generations past. But now it has been manifested to his holy ones, to whom God chose to make known the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; it is Christ in you, the hope for glory. It is he whom we proclaim, admonishing everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone perfect in Christ. For this I labor and struggle, in accord with the exercise of his power working within me.
Col. 1:24-29

The Apostle Paul did not ask for his hardships; he was no masochist. He welcomed the hospitality and the care of the holy ones. This was his attitude, though:

“I rejoice greatly in the Lord that now at last you revived your concern for me. You were, of course, concerned about me but lacked an opportunity. Not that I say this because of need, for I have learned, in whatever situation I find myself, to be self-sufficient. I know indeed how to live in humble circumstances; I know also how to live with abundance. In every circumstance and in all things I have learned the secret of being well fed and of going hungry, of living in abundance and of being in need. I have the strength for everything through him who empowers me. Still, it was kind of you to share in my distress.”
Phil 4:10-14

This is really excellent and I hope it is helpful to Darklight.

My suggestion is that the OP utterly avoid any of the current “debt free” teachers like Dave Ramsey, and when his name comes up in conversation, or the name of any of the “debt free” teachers or “debt free” living philosophies, WALK AWAY.

Many of these teachers and philosophies teach that debt is a sin. It isn’t. It’s what happens in the U.S.

I disagree that everyone chooses debt and that we should “own it.” “Stuff happens,” and much of that stuff is stinky and results in debt.

We don’t make our cars break down, and many don’t make enough money to put away a car repair fund that is going to cover the cost of a new transmission.

We don’t make trees fall on our house–yes, this happened to us about ten years ago during a storm, and yes, we were insured by what we thought was a good company. It’s certainly on television all the time and in a lot of print media, and all of you would recognize the name. What they told us is that they would cover the cost of removing the tree from our roof and repairing our roof. BUT…they would not cover the cost of removal of the gigantic oak tree from our lawn–that was not part of the accident. So we ended up paying around $2000 to get that big tree sawed up and hauled away. We didn’t have $2000, so it went on a charge card.

And even if people have health insurance, which we have, much of the “paraphernalia” of being sick or hurt is not covered by insurance. When I had my foot surgery, I had to buy all kinds of stuff; e.g., a seat for my shower, a knee walker, a cam boot, etc. None of this was covered, and it cost over a thousand dollars. We didn’t have a thousand dollars (this was shortly before the tree fell, BTW.)

This is the kind of “stuff” that happens to lots of people. We’re just glad that we are able to get credit to pay for these things! Lots of unfortunate families aren’t able to qualify for credit cards and other forms of loans!

OP, stop listening to the people who say that debt is sin. It’s no more a sin than getting sick or hurt.

 

[1ke]

Have you considered some kind of student loan forgiveness or plan (I believe that an income-based plan ends your financial responsibility after several years of paying- even if it does not cover the total amount) or bankruptcy, if you have non-student debts that you can’t cover? Neither is immoral nor illegal. The Bible and the church, I believe, support both if necessary. This is exactly what those options are for. You shouldn’t have to be a slave to debt forever.

Right, the income-based repayment plans can have a payment amount of zero dollars. And yes, after 20 years the remaining balance is not owed (which means taxpayers pay for it) but it is a good option for those who cannot pay.

The forgiveness options come from working in certain professions.

Full disability can be grounds for discharge, but that is more difficult to obtain.

 

[DarkLight]

Part of the frustration for me is, even if I get an income-based repayment plan, it means that I’m not going to be able to have any extra for a long time. I have so much I want to do, I’ve considered a vocation and even without that I want to do some ministry work within the church. But the first requires not having debt and the second requires having spare money - the sort I’m not going to have if I have to pay down student loans. Forgiveness plans would be kicking in near 50 for me.

It is very hard - I often feel like having debt is a major stigma, at least with a lot of people I have. I really did work very hard to be debt free and it frustrates me no end feeling like I got nothing for my hard work. In fact I’ve been told I’d probably be better off if I’d been less responsible and taken a break on borrowed money instead of fighting and stressing myself out to keep afloat. It’s really very demotivating when it seems like you can work hard and then something happens and you’re basically flushing years of work down the drain. Why get up and try again when it would be so easy to have everything thrown away again? Why try being good and virtuous when you will be reviled for it even among Christians, and when those who throw away such things are hailed as the righteous? Why keep acting when you are forced to what the teaching you learned as a little girl say is a sinful lifestyle and yet you have no choice?

I’m not in a profession that qualifies for forgiveness and in fact taking time off to do the sort of work that qualifies could hurt me - a lot of jobs in my field are now saying if you haven’t worked in the field for more than a year or two you won’t even be considered.

 

[Xantippe]

Part of the frustration for me is, even if I get an income-based repayment plan, it means that I’m not going to be able to have any extra for a long time. I have so much I want to do, I’ve considered a vocation and even without that I want to do some ministry work within the church. But the first requires not having debt and the second requires having spare money - the sort I’m not going to have if I have to pay down student loans. Forgiveness plans would be kicking in near 50 for me.

It is very hard - I often feel like having debt is a major stigma, at least with a lot of people I have. I really did work very hard to be debt free and it frustrates me no end feeling like I got nothing for my hard work. In fact I’ve been told I’d probably be better off if I’d been less responsible and taken a break on borrowed money instead of fighting and stressing myself out to keep afloat. It’s really very demotivating when it seems like you can work hard and then something happens and you’re basically flushing years of work down the drain. Why get up and try again when it would be so easy to have everything thrown away again? Why try being good and virtuous when you will be reviled for it even among Christians, and when those who throw away such things are hailed as the righteous? Why keep acting when you are forced to what the teaching you learned as a little girl say is a sinful lifestyle and yet you have no choice?

I’m not in a profession that qualifies for forgiveness and in fact taking time off to do the sort of work that qualifies could hurt me - a lot of jobs in my field are now saying if you haven’t worked in the field for more than a year or two you won’t even be considered.

In your particular field, I think the income-based repayment is the one to go for if you don’t get a really good job. Have a look at this:

finaid.org/calculators/ibr.phtml

“The monthly loan payments are capped at 15% of discretionary income with forgiveness of any remaining debt (including accrued but unpaid interest) after 25 years. Discretionary income is defined as the amount by which adjusted gross income exceeds the poverty line.”

That’s not ridiculous, and it doesn’t sound like it’s very punitive with regard to additional earnings.

Once you get yourself settled and have a little discretionary income, try a personal finance class. It can be a very supportive environment and there will be people in the room who’ve done much worse things with money than you have. (The Baptist pastor who facilitated Financial Peace University when I went through said he’d put all his kids’ college on credit cards. Oops.)

Good luck!

 

[EasterJoy]

Part of the frustration for me is, even if I get an income-based repayment plan, it means that I’m not going to be able to have any extra for a long time. I have so much I want to do, I’ve considered a vocation and even without that I want to do some ministry work within the church. But the first requires not having debt and the second requires having spare money - the sort I’m not going to have if I have to pay down student loans. Forgiveness plans would be kicking in near 50 for me.

It is very hard - I often feel like having debt is a major stigma, at least with a lot of people I have. I really did work very hard to be debt free and it frustrates me no end feeling like I got nothing for my hard work. In fact I’ve been told I’d probably be better off if I’d been less responsible and taken a break on borrowed money instead of fighting and stressing myself out to keep afloat. It’s really very demotivating when it seems like you can work hard and then something happens and you’re basically flushing years of work down the drain. Why get up and try again when it would be so easy to have everything thrown away again? Why try being good and virtuous when you will be reviled for it even among Christians, and when those who throw away such things are hailed as the righteous? Why keep acting when you are forced to what the teaching you learned as a little girl say is a sinful lifestyle and yet you have no choice?

I’m not in a profession that qualifies for forgiveness and in fact taking time off to do the sort of work that qualifies could hurt me - a lot of jobs in my field are now saying if you haven’t worked in the field for more than a year or two you won’t even be considered.

You need to talk to somebody “with skin on.” Have you gone to anyone in the ministry field you feel called to, and asked not for admission advice so much as suggestions about where to get encouragement and support? There is a reason Our Lord sent them out two-by-two, and not one at a time.

 

[DarkLight]

For context, I’m looking at about 20k in student loans, unsubsidized, at just under 7% interest rate. I may be able to work something out with family to help, at least in terms of borrowing money that won’t be accruing a ton of interest.

I’m honestly so used at this point to living on next to nothing. Food stamps $5/day is practically luxurious - I can actually buy things like sandwich meat instead of cooking every meal! (Seriously, I should give cooking without money classes or something.) I don’t need much, I just want to be able to be debt free and be able to do what I want with my money.

The whole thing bothers me, because I feel like I’m wasting my hard work. I don’t want to have to hand a huge amount of money over to the government just because someone else decided to make my life hell for me. It’s not right, it makes me feel awful because I’m not doing anything except being a drain on society right now, and even when I get off instead of being able to help others I’ll be forking over money for the government to waste.

I just wish I didn’t feel like I was fighting a world that seems determined to punish responsibility and reward sin.

 

[Xantippe]

For context, I’m looking at about 20k in student loans, unsubsidized, at just under 7% interest rate. I may be able to work something out with family to help, at least in terms of borrowing money that won’t be accruing a ton of interest.

**$20k! I was afraid it was $100k for a liberal arts degree. $20k is pretty average for student loans these days–it’s really not some sort of insurmountable mark of Cain or scarlet letter. True story–I have a cousin who borrowed $64k while going to medical school–and then dropped out mid-way. You are so much better off than she was.

Just try to keep up with the interest as best as you can while in school.

Also, as DR would say, what you have is not so much a debt problem as an income problem. Once you get your income up and consistent you’ll barely feel it. **

The whole thing bothers me, because I feel like I’m wasting my hard work. I don’t want to have to hand a huge amount of money over to the government just because someone else decided to make my life hell for me.

You borrowed the money to live off of and now you’re going to pay back the money that you lived on. It’s just as if you had put the money on a credit card (although it may or may not be bankruptable depending on the type of student loan)–there is no huge cosmic injustice here and no waste. You spent the money, now you need to earn the money and pay it back. That’s why debt stinks–it means living looking backwards. Once you start paying it off, you’ll be able to live looking and living forward.

 

[DarkLight]

I think the sense of injustice is more from having to be in the position to borrow money in the first place. I wanted to be working and earning money, not sitting at home fighting flashbacks and nausea and hoping it’ll fade enough to let me fix and eat food. I hate feeling like I threw away both worktime and the money I’d saved up, rather than using them for the intended purpose. The man that did this to me is sitting in a nice academic job with his advanced degree doing what he dreamed of while I’m fighting to restore my health.

I want to be free of…that. And even as I’m fighting PTSD I feel like the debt keeps me looking back to a nightmare time.

Maybe I’m being silly. Probably. This has been one of the hardest adjustments for me. I grew up in a world that was fair, hard work always paid off, modestly dressed women weren’t victims, everything. I grew up being told the world didn’t care what happened to you, the only thing that mattered was what you produced, and if you worked hard you’d have something to show for it.

I understand that’s wrong, that’s not how it works. But I’m really struggling with what to put in its place. And 18+ years of training, of being taught that people like me were drains on society, is hard to get rid of. And academia doesn’t always help - I basically got tossed aside by the one prof I’d been working closely with when I started to have health problems. It was very clear I wasn’t worth his time anymore unless I could hold everything together. Clear from the school too, I was at best a nuisance trying to finish a degree instead of stepping aside for someone better than me, someone who wouldn’t need the extra help.