Making peace with debt

[Cat]

I think the sense of injustice is more from having to be in the position to borrow money in the first place. I wanted to be working and earning money, not sitting at home fighting flashbacks and nausea and hoping it’ll fade enough to let me fix and eat food. I hate feeling like I threw away both worktime and the money I’d saved up, rather than using them for the intended purpose. The man that did this to me is sitting in a nice academic job with his advanced degree doing what he dreamed of while I’m fighting to restore my health.

I want to be free of…that. And even as I’m fighting PTSD I feel like the debt keeps me looking back to a nightmare time.

Maybe I’m being silly. Probably. This has been one of the hardest adjustments for me. I grew up in a world that was fair, hard work always paid off, modestly dressed women weren’t victims, everything. I grew up being told the world didn’t care what happened to you, the only thing that mattered was what you produced, and if you worked hard you’d have something to show for it.

I understand that’s wrong, that’s not how it works. But I’m really struggling with what to put in its place. And 18+ years of training, of being taught that people like me were drains on society, is hard to get rid of. And academia doesn’t always help - I basically got tossed aside by the one prof I’d been working closely with when I started to have health problems. It was very clear I wasn’t worth his time anymore unless I could hold everything together. Clear from the school too, I was at best a nuisance trying to finish a degree instead of stepping aside for someone better than me, someone who wouldn’t need the extra help.

I think that the reason you are so miserable over your debts is because you have some issues that are unresolved in your life. You seem to hate yourself, and to equate your lack of success paying off your debts with your own faults. (It doesn’t help when others tell you that you have failed, I know.)

I realize that you have no money to pay for counseling, but I also realize that there are clinics that will provide counseling on a sliding scale or even for free. I really hope that you will try to find a counselor and work through your self-esteem issues. My husband and I have a whole lot more debt than you do, but we still love ourselves and each other. I hope you can find a way to learn to love yourself, too.

 

[Xantippe]

I believe there’s an ongoing change in climate in academia, and a number of people have recently lost their jobs or are finding life suddenly much less pleasant.

slate.com/articles/life/inside_higher_ed/2014/05/internet_campaign_accuses_a_yale_professor_of_sexual_assault_which_has_troubling.html

With regard to finances, here’s a simple plan for when your income gets slightly above subsistence level:

1. $100 a month on your loan interest (that is almost enough to keep interest from accruing)
2. set aside $100 a month in savings every month during grad school

The second $100 will turn into $6,000 after five years of grad school, which would be very handy for interview costs (clothes, a nice bag, unreimbursed travel, etc.), unreimbursed relocation costs, and (if the academic thing doesn’t work for you) transitioning into the real world. Even under the best of circumstances, a little money at the end of grad school is nice–a friend’s husband recently got a nice job, but they were dismayed to discover that there was a month or two gap between the end of the husband’s graduate funding and his first paycheck at the new teaching job. Plus, if you have savings, you would have a better chance of avoiding moving back with your mom.

Good luck!

 

[Allegra]

I know it’s hard to imagine, but you can get out from under this debt. I know how you feel about having to work so hard and ending up in the same place as people who breeze through life, but when it’s all said and done, you will be stronger for the experience. Try not to despair over this and absolutely don’t feel guilty for what is beyond your control.

 

[DarkLight]

I was hoping at least that I should be able to manage payments. If I can work out with my family to help get the loans paid or at least switched to something with less interest that’ll really help. $100 a month…I could probably do more, my MA program has one of the lowest grad pay rates out there and I managed. Granted the cost of living wasn’t high there, but still, I know how to feed myself for maybe $20 a week.

I have been hoping to devote some time/money during grad school to extra skills. Probably some programming, it can’t be much harder than some of the stuff I’ve already done, and at least no one’s complaining about whether you used the right sort of necessity.

---

It’s just hard, knowing what’s in the past. I find myself bitterly angry at the whole thing, I hear stuff about “forgiveness” and “letting go” but I find I don’t know how. I don’t understand how to watch a rapist go on to a good, happy, successful life with lots of awards and everyone acting like he was fine. I don’t understand why I’m the one who had to pay medical bills and lose work time and deal with being treated badly over and over again, while the people who ignore morality and treat other people like garbage seem to be rewarded.

 

[Xantippe]

I was hoping at least that I should be able to manage payments. If I can work out with my family to help get the loans paid or at least switched to something with less interest that’ll really help. $100 a month…I could probably do more, my MA program has one of the lowest grad pay rates out there and I managed. Granted the cost of living wasn’t high there, but still, I know how to feed myself for maybe $20 a week.

That’s great. But if you have a more than basic income, get yourself a more than basic diet.

I have been hoping to devote some time/money during grad school to extra skills. Probably some programming, it can’t be much harder than some of the stuff I’ve already done, and at least no one’s complaining about whether you used the right sort of necessity.

**Actually, if you program, you do wind up dealing with user issues (some of which are dumb) and constantly improving things in response to user comments and requests and bug reports. My husband has done a lot in the past as a sort of paying hobby when he isn’t feeling up to real academic work. If you can do it without hurting your studies, that would probably be a very good fit for you. We’ve seen it generate about $900 a month at peak for doing apps at somewhat less than $1 each and the royalties still dribble in at $300 or $400 a month with almost no new work being done. That could be really, really good fit for you, because if you find yourself unable to work at times, as long as you work hard when you can, it can generate some small flow of income even when you’re unable to work. **​

It’s just hard, knowing what’s in the past. I find myself bitterly angry at the whole thing, I hear stuff about “forgiveness” and “letting go” but I find I don’t know how. I don’t understand how to watch a rapist go on to a good, happy, successful life with lots of awards and everyone acting like he was fine. I don’t understand why I’m the one who had to pay medical bills and lose work time and deal with being treated badly over and over again, while the people who ignore morality and treat other people like garbage seem to be rewarded.

Or, alternately, it means that when those people do get their just deserts, it’s more spectacular.

 

[Luvz2travel]

You start by taking responsibility for your debt and the choices you made. The language you use in your post attempts to avoid responsibility-- words like

• I don’t feel like it’s something I could have avoided
• I’m deeply angry that I was forced to take on thousands and thousands of debt
• I’m not in a high-earning field
• I don’t want to live the rest of my life bound to the debt of circumstances
• I never wanted and got stuck with

Thousands and thousands of dollars of debt don’t simply happen magically while you are asleep one night. With the exception of large medical debt incurred in circumstances beyond our control, debt is basically a choice we make. Medical debt in such circumstances may be a candidate for bankruptcy protection.

Debt wasn’t done TO you, it was done BY you. So, owning it as your own choice is the first step to moving beyond the victim statements and towards setting your mind and focus on paying it off and moving beyond it.

You can do it. Set your mind to it and get it paid off.

Buy a money pit house and have a car totalled and have a job cut hours and you’ll be surprised how fast debt can accumulate. Just saying. I know how this person feels.

 

[Cat]

Buy a money pit house and have a car totalled and have a job cut hours and you’ll be surprised how fast debt can accumulate. Just saying. I know how this person feels.

Absolutely.

Some of the anti-debt teachers say, “Don’t buy anything you can’t afford to pay cash for.”

Ridiculous and unrealistic! Are you supposed to live in a house with a broken septic tank that leaks toxic waste into the ground, or a hole in the roof that showers you and your house with water whenever there’s a storm? How are you supposed to get to work (or anywhere) without a car if your city doesn’t have a good system of public transportation and you have a baby that’s too heavy to carry on a bike (if you even ride a bike or if you even own a bike)? And if it’s hard to keep one full-time job in a troubled economy, how in the world are you supposed to go out and find yet another job?!

In an ideal world, we would all make utterly wise decisions about housing, and everyone else would make utterly wise decisions about how they drive, and the choices we made after high school about our career would lead us to a job that can never be downsized in a company that never goes belly up.

But we don’t live in an ideal world, do we? In an instant, all of our good decisions and wise plans can be utterly upended by a criminal, an incompetent driver, a CEO who sees no way out, even the weather.

And yes, sometimes we can get ourselves into a bad situation because we make a decision based on our wants, thinking we can handle it, and then one of these other life up-enders derails us. OR, we can commit a sin that has very bad consequences for us. But we shouldn’t be so quick to heap constant blame upon ourselves. Lots of people make decisions based on wants, and it works out for them. And lots of people commit a sin and suffer only minimal consequences.

IMO, rather than chafing about our debt-laden situation, we need to learn to live with it as cheerfully and optimistically as possible. If we were diagnosed with a terminal disease, we certainly wouldn’t be happy and would probably cry a lot and probably get angry at times. But eventually, most of us would come to terms with it and accept our lot in life, and do our very best to make our life good and useful and even fun. We would surround ourselves with people who would build us up and we would stay away from people who tried to blame us for our disease and who tried to tell us that we could cure ourselves if we would just follow some simple steps.

 

[Xantippe]

Absolutely.

Some of the anti-debt teachers say, “Don’t buy anything you can’t afford to pay cash for.”

Ridiculous and unrealistic! Are you supposed to live in a house with a broken septic tank that leaks toxic waste into the ground, or a hole in the roof that showers you and your house with water whenever there’s a storm?

**That’s why people need to follow the advice to delay house purchases before 1) being out of other debt 2) having a substantial downpayment 3) having a 3-6 month emergency fund. If you follow that advice before buying a house, you can write a check for just about any house problem or (in a pinch) sell the house and get out.

If you don’t have the resources to fix house problems into the mid 4-figures, keep renting. If you buy a house without being ready, your dream will turn into a nightmare. That’s what Dave Ramsey would say. **

How are you supposed to get to work (or anywhere) without a car if your city doesn’t have a good system of public transportation and you have a baby that’s too heavy to carry on a bike (if you even ride a bike or if you even own a bike)? And if it’s hard to keep one full-time job in a troubled economy, how in the world are you supposed to go out and find yet another job?!

**I grew up poor and one good thing I learned from that and from my dad (who always had about 3 or 4 gigs going) is that while there aren’t always jobs, there is always work.
**
In an ideal world, we would all make utterly wise decisions about housing, and everyone else would make utterly wise decisions about how they drive, and the choices we made after high school about our career would lead us to a job that can never be downsized in a company that never goes belly up.

**The more unsecure the world is, the more important it is to do our best to avoid debt. A small or irregular debt-free income goes way further than a small or irregular income encumbered with payments. **

IMO, rather than chafing about our debt-laden situation, we need to learn to live with it as cheerfully and optimistically as possible. If we were diagnosed with a terminal disease, we certainly wouldn’t be happy and would probably cry a lot and probably get angry at times. But eventually, most of us would come to terms with it and accept our lot in life, and do our very best to make our life good and useful and even fun. We would surround ourselves with people who would build us up and we would stay away from people who tried to blame us for our disease and who tried to tell us that we could cure ourselves if we would just follow some simple steps.

** To expand that analogy, accepting debt as an inevitability is like accepting imminent death as an inevitability when there are promising cures for your disease.**

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Buy a money pit house and have a car totalled and have a job cut hours and you’ll be surprised how fast debt can accumulate. Just saying. I know how this person feels.

The advice 1ke gave is good advice for somebody who might be overextending themselves by taking on some sort of debt - It just appears that that advice may have reached you a little too late. In any case, the most important thing to do now is to develop a plan for getting your debts taken care of. You still have a lot of things you can do to better your situation. You can live with a ratty house until you have enough money to repair it. You can learn skills that will get you a higher paying job. You aren’t a helpless bystander in all of this.

 

[Kal2012]

1. Accept that not everyone has the ideal circumstances growing up.

My husband was kicked out his house at 17, didn’t have a senior year of high school. Got a GED while couch surfing. He didn’t go to college until his mid-20’s because his life was a lot more stable then. Yes, we took on a lot of debt for him to go, but having the piece of paper allowed him to be eligible for promotions and ‘moving up’ in his profession.

Also, when you are a kid, there’s not much you can do when the adults around you make bad decisions. You deal the best you can.

1. As others have said, you need to accept that you made the choice to go into debt.

I’ve struggled with this because I, too, took out a lot of money for a college education that I didn’t really use/need for the jobs I had once I was out of college. Still, a lot of good things did come out of that experience. Which leads me to…

1. Not everyone ends up in their chosen field after graduation…life happens.

Everyone is fed this BS line about how live is going to be so wonderful about life after college, but the thing is that life happens. Sometimes you get sick or you can’t go off on your own because you have sick parents that need care. Sometimes, you can’t afford to move where there are more job opportunities in your field, so you choose another career. Sometimes, there just aren’t a lot of opportunities in your field and you are stuck doing something else. Finally…

1. Making peace with debt or anything really is a choice. It’s not a one-time thing either. There are some days when I have to make the conscious choice to be happy with the way things turned out instead of dwelling on my regrets.

As someone who’s always been more on the melancholy side of the emotional spectrum, that is a challenge some days. (But that’s why I take my meds and do what I need to do to be mentally and physically healthy). Just because the past was challenging doesn’t mean that I can’t have the best life possible now. I’ve had to learn how to change my thought patterns (still a work in progress, btw) and I’ve had to actually believe the new things I tell myself (always a challenge for someone who’s waiting for the next bad thing to happen).

If you want to chat, please PM me. It’s a process. I hate being debt, but the truth is that neither my husband and I come from middle class backgrounds, so we had to take on the debt because our parents couldn’t or wouldn’t help us w/our further education. We’ve made some stupid mistakes along the way, but we’ve also learned a lot from those mistakes.

 

[maryjk]

The advice 1ke gave is good advice for somebody who might be overextending themselves by taking on some sort of debt - It just appears that that advice may have reached you a little too late. In any case, the most important thing to do now is to develop a plan for getting your debts taken care of. You still have a lot of things you can do to better your situation. You can live with a ratty house until you have enough money to repair it. You can learn skills that will get you a higher paying job. You aren’t a helpless bystander in all of this.

You can stop taking out more debt, unless absolutely needed.

Make sure that the career you are pursuing is one that you can work at. Make sure it will make you the money to repay the debt. And perhaps take time away from school to make money. So you don’t have to borrow so much.

I have a friend that has a Master’s in French Lit. She doesn’t understand why no employer cares.

 

[Xantippe]

I have a friend that has a Master’s in French Lit. She doesn’t understand why no employer cares.

A hotsy-totsy private school might love that.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

I have a friend that has a Master’s in French Lit. She doesn’t understand why no employer cares.

La fille que j’aimera Sera comme bon vin Qui se bonifiera Un peux chaques matin…

No, I wouldn’t consider French Lit a waste. I’d say that if she were interested in going to work in any part of the Francophone world it would be really useful in fact.

 

[phillylawyer]

For context, I’m looking at about 20k in student loans, unsubsidized, at just under 7% interest rate. I may be able to work something out with family to help, at least in terms of borrowing money that won’t be accruing a ton of interest.

With interest rates at historic lows, I would seriously consider refinancing your student loans to a lower rate. With sofi, for example, I refinanced my 7.8% loan down to a 3.25% loan.

sofi.com/

Now, you have to be careful about refinancing federal loans that qualify for income repayment to non-subsidized ones, but it is definitely something to look into.

 

[DarkLight]

You can stop taking out more debt, unless absolutely needed.

Make sure that the career you are pursuing is one that you can work at. Make sure it will make you the money to repay the debt. And perhaps take time away from school to make money. So you don’t have to borrow so much.

I have a friend that has a Master’s in French Lit. She doesn’t understand why no employer cares.

Despite being student loans, I didn’t really take on debt for an education. I was in education, debt-free, working as a graduate assistant which both covered my expenses and my tuition. PhD programs in my field generally operate the same way, you spend some time working for the college and get your tuition and expenses covered.

I took on debt because 3/4 of the way through I got really really sick and couldn’t keep up working. My school job wasn’t eligible for unemployment, none of my jobs were eligible for SSDI, and the area I was in didn’t really have programs that could have helped me without months-long waiting lists (not helpful when the rent is due next week). So I had to look around and ask how I was paying the rent and buying myself food. Dragging myself to 1 class a week let me get a loan that would cover the basic bills at a time when I didn’t really have other options.

That’s sort of the thing that I’m looking at - I’m not exactly in a lucrative field, but I’m not going into debt either.

 

[DAML72]

For context, I’m looking at about 20k in student loans, unsubsidized, at just under 7% interest rate. I may be able to work something out with family to help, at least in terms of borrowing money that won’t be accruing a ton of interest.

I’m honestly so used at this point to living on next to nothing. Food stamps $5/day is practically luxurious - I can actually buy things like sandwich meat instead of cooking every meal! (Seriously, I should give cooking without money classes or something.) I don’t need much, I just want to be able to be debt free and be able to do what I want with my money.

The whole thing bothers me, because I feel like I’m wasting my hard work. I don’t want to have to hand a huge amount of money over to the government just because someone else decided to make my life hell for me. It’s not right, it makes me feel awful because I’m not doing anything except being a drain on society right now, and even when I get off instead of being able to help others I’ll be forking over money for the government to waste.

I just wish I didn’t feel like I was fighting a world that seems determined to punish responsibility and reward sin.

It is what it is. You are far from being the only one who is in this position. I understand the frustration, but you have to face reality as it is now, and work on a solution, and the sooner you are able to do that, the better. Just keep praying for God to lead you - it will get better. I can’t guarantee you’ll get everything you want, but it will get better.

 

[SecretCatholic]

I grew up in a world that was fair, hard work always paid off, modestly dressed women weren’t victims, everything. I grew up being told the world didn’t care what happened to you, the only thing that mattered was what you produced, and if you worked hard you’d have something to show for it.

We all go through this to some degree. The world isn’t fair. I personally have been very disappointed with the world. Government- don’t get me started! But that’s why Christ came- to show us the way in an unjust world. But it seems to me- and this is just a humble suggestion- that you are disappointed with your current situation because of what you are comparing it to.

Have you thought that even with your troubles (and I am not belittling or shrugging them off in any way!) you are better off than most people in the world? Have you thought that that isn’t fair? Why weren’t you born literally dirt-poor in a country where your fate was to die young from malnutrition? How is it fair that you get to be the rich, developed world and they don’t? It really changes your perspective. Perhaps your cross is heavy, but let Christ help you carry it.

P.S. I am not trying to sound “holier than thou” here. I am guilty of crying “not fair” for probably much lessor things.

 

[patrickswan]

In today’s economy, the debt degree of young American adults like those under the age of 35, has taken a steep dive during the last ten years or so, according to a new study. Usually, that would sound like great news for the economy. In fact, however, it indicates a very unpleasant pattern. The reason that debt has fallen so sharply is because today’s young adults have too few resources to think about taking on new loans. pay for your debt payments this month with a payday loan.