Making prosphora

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ConstantineTG said:
It is (or at least it should be)
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I don’t know Constantine:

My mother was the Church’s Prosfora baker and when she passed away last year, the Church asked me to take her spot, which I did.

This is my process, but remember, I’m Greek Orthodox - so perhaps you can compare.

First of all, when making Prosfora you must be clean - clean body, clean clothes, clean thoughts.

You have an Icon of Jesus on your clean working surface and you light the incense.

You say a few prayers, especially the Jesus Prayer and then you proceed to make the bread.

I always God to bless my bread and then I start.

3 1/2 cups of flour
1 & 1/4 cup of water - but this also depends on the weather & humidity.
1 teaspoon of yeast
1/4 teaspoon of salt.

I use my kitchenaid mixer with the hook. My hands don’t work anymore due to arthritis.

I mix this for 10 minutes - the prosfora dough must be stiff, but soft.

There should be no oils of fats touching the prosfore, so pans must be oil free.

I let it rise until it doubles - then I punch it down.

I work the bread by hand for about 1 or 2 minutes & then I let it rest on the counter - covered for about 15 minutes.

I then form it into a round loaf.

My oven is already on & preheated to 425

I put the round loaf in the baking pan and use my prosfora seal to stamp the top.

I then take a toothpick and poke 12 holes around the bread

I bake it immediately in order to capture the seal properly.

The bread will rise - but not much and the seal is preserved nicely.

I bake it for about 30-40 minutes - but I keep an eye on the oven because I have hot spots.

Then when done, I take it out of the pan & let it cool

I finish off with a few more prayers and I thank God for helping me make the bread.

I then take it to Church and Father Gerry will use that for Communion.

So…

When you read my process, is this familiar with the Catholic tradition…???
 
jakasaki, I couldn’t imagine doing it any other way. The reason I suddenly took on this work for our parish is because our parish’s baker has a health issue. He has made enough bread to last a few months before he got ill but the problem after that is no one else will make the prosphora. And we are unsure if he will be back by then.

I was jobless for 3 months this year and I learned to make bread for home. But I guess deep down inside I also wanted to do this. But not in this circumstance, I feel bad for the trial that our bread maker is going through. But anyway, we have to deal with it, so I will start with some practice bread in the next few weeks and show it to our priest. If he is happy with it, then I will start regular production of the bread.

I have a question. What pan do you use?
 
ConstantineTG said:
jakasaki, I couldn’t imagine doing it any other way. The reason I suddenly took on this work for our parish is because our parish’s baker has a health issue. He has made enough bread to last a few months before he got ill but the problem after that is no one else will make the prosphora. And we are unsure if he will be back by then.

I was jobless for 3 months this year and I learned to make bread for home. But I guess deep down inside I also wanted to do this. But not in this circumstance, I feel bad for the trial that our bread maker is going through. But anyway, we have to deal with it, so I will start with some practice bread in the next few weeks and show it to our priest. If he is happy with it, then I will start regular production of the bread.

I have a question. What pan do you use?
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Stainless stell baking pans like the ones you would make a round cake.

I only use these pans for prosfora and nothing else.

I also have clean towels which I only use for prosfora.

So Constantine… is the Greek Orthodox process pretty much the same as the Catholic Tradition…

Is that what you are telling me… cause if it is, I am very happy to share it with you on here.

Do you also have to put the prosfora seal on top of the bread as well…??

Do you use the same seal as EO…??

I have pictures of my bread but they are huge in size… I’ll have to find a way to shrink them so I can post you a picture.

Thank you for allowing me to share my experince from the EO side… much appreciated.
 
The process would be the same, and we would use the seal as well. Of course this may vary from parish to parish depending on the people who help make this. Sometimes the priest will just take what help he can get and not impose on traditional practices on the parishioners. But I’m willing to go the extra mile on this and do it the right way. I still am looking for seals. In fact, just googling I found a pan with a seal at the bottom. Which means you do not need to put the seal on top. I’m thinking if I would buy this: thegiftedpan.com/order.html
 
ConstantineTG said:
The process would be the same, and we would use the seal as well. Of course this may vary from parish to parish depending on the people who help make this. Sometimes the priest will just take what help he can get and not impose on traditional practices on the parishioners. But I’m willing to go the extra mile on this and do it the right way. I still am looking for seals. In fact, just googling I found a pan with a seal at the bottom. Which means you do not need to put the seal on top. I’m thinking if I would buy this: thegiftedpan.com/order.html
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Indeed… I’m very familiar with the gifted pan site.

The problem with me is that the pan is very expensive and that means if you buy one, you can only make 1 bread at a time.

I’m still unemployed so this was not an option for me.

When I make prosfora, I make 8 to 10 loaves at a time.

When mom died, I took her seals - she had 5 of them. They are fine wooden seals and in excellent condition. She kept them clean - this means I also inherited her pans as well… 😛

I’ve been baking bread since I was 8 years old and now at the age of 53, I’m master all sorts of bread making and baking.

I can say this… practice… practice… practice… and if some loaves do not come out decent for the Church, the bread slices nice and it makes great sandwiches. 😉

It also makes great toast in the morning with butter & jam or butter & honey… YUM
 
True enough, but the seals themselves already cost like $20 each. Then I have to buy a pan. I don’t know, I will think about this a bit. I have been blessed with a good paying job, I don’t mind spending a bit for the good of our parish.
 
ConstantineTG said:
True enough, but the seals themselves already cost like $20 each. Then I have to buy a pan. I don’t know, I will think about this a bit. I have been blessed with a good paying job, I don’t mind spending a bit for the good of our parish.
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I wish you well in your journey. It’s a great honor to make Prosfora for the Church.

Best regards
Pam
 
There is a great tip I can pass your way.

Since the bread does not have any fats in it, you must “lightly” dust the baking pan with flour…

Now, when bread is baked, it will come out of the pan, but you will have some flour residue on the bread.

Have 2 clean toothbrushes.

1 fine bristle

1 hard bristle

Why…

You will need them to brush off the flour from the bread after it’s baked…

The fine brush will take care of it, but sometimes you might have a stubborn spot of flour - then you’ll need the hard one.
 
prosphora.org has lots of recipes, stamps, etc. I used to use one of the recipes on this page until one of the priests of our Eparchy showed me a better way. You will likely find that you will have to make a few adjustments in the recipe. I only use three ingredients: unbleached white flour, yeast, and water.
 
Also, I was thinking of something else…

Your bread needs to be at least 200-210 degrees inside.

Just poke the thermometer into the bottom center of the loaf - try to use a digital one - and within seconds you’ll have your temp reading.

Also, most bakers just tap the loaf at the bottom of the cooked bread. This is the method I use only because I’ve been making bread for decades…

It should make a hollow thump sound - but if you are not sure about this, then try the digital temp procedure.
 
Is there a concern about bubbles in the bread? My regular loaf (for family consumption) usually has a lot of bubbles, but then again it has butter in it.

jakasaki, I also have a kitchenaid mixer. What setting do you use to knead your dough?
 
ConstantineTG said:
Is there a concern about bubbles in the bread? My regular loaf (for family consumption) usually has a lot of bubbles, but then again it has butter in it.

jakasaki, I also have a kitchenaid mixer. What setting do you use to knead your dough?
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Absolutely bubbles are a problem for the Priest because he was to cut around certain areas of the bread for the offering… Perhaps it’s best if you talk to your Priest.

Do you remember my process in my post as how I make my bread.

After it rises for about 1 hour, I punch it down & work it for about 2 minutes. I work it hard to remove all posible gas yeast bubbles from it.

I even use my rolling pin and roll it like a round pie shape to remove as many bubbles from it as I can.

Once I’m certain that I have removed all bubbles from it, I roll it up into a ball & let it rest on the counter for about 15 minutes - covered…

It is now at this point that I am confident that just about all bubbles are gone & I form the loaf.

Now…

The kitchenaid… I put the recipe in there - I make 1 bread at a time in the mixer.

I start on low speed in the begining until all ingredients are mixed. I then turn it up to speed 3 and put the kitchen timer on for 10 minutes.

Now… I do sit & watch it because of the weather & humidity… sometimes it will need a bit more flour - by that I mean a tablespoon at a time,…

Other times it will need a drop of water.

The finished dough should be like this…

Clean finger… put it in the dough… if your finger comes out clean without anything sticking to it, it’s done.

It should be stiff, but yet soft … like they say… “baby’s bottom soft”.

If it is sticking to your finger, then it needs more work with flour - back into the mixer with hook and add 1 tblspn at a time - let the kitchenaid do the work at speed #2 this time and let it run for 2 - 3 minutes… again… test with your finger…
 
I was again thinking…

Do you remember the Pillsbury commercials with the dough boy…??

Do you remember someone would poke him in the belly…

If you remember that, you’ll notice that the poke went in nicely, left an indentation and pulled out cleanly…

This is the best way to explain it to you… 😛
 
jakasaki, you are indeed a highly skilled baker 👍

Thanks for the tips!
 
ConstantineTG said:
jakasaki, you are indeed a highly skilled baker 👍

Thanks for the tips!
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Thank you ever so much - it was my pleasure… anytime…

At first I thought I was going to get into trouble with CAF rules because of posting EO prosfora process in a Catholic sub-forum… but I guess I did not break any rules…

Constantine - if you need me or have any questions, please feel free to PM or write on my CAF wall…

I don’t visit this sub forum often…

I just happened to see your thread on the left side of my screen & said… hmmmmmm… I make prosfora - perhaps I can help…

And then I saw your profile & saw Catholic and I’m like… I don’t know if I can help… perhaps the Catholic tradition is different…
 
jakasaki, we should have the same traditions. I know this is not the case all the time, but if we Eastern Catholics do our best to mirror what our Orthodox brethren are doing, then we have followed the Pope’s mandate that we return to our authentic Eastern traditions. 👍
 
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