When the church declares someone a saint, it is not because the Church “just wants to”. It is the result of the church coming to a conclusion after many miracles have been attributed to a saint. It takes 2 confirm miracles due an individual asking a saint for intercession prayer for the church to declare that person a saint. Sainthood is not simply declared on whomever the church chooses; it is the REALIZATION that someone is in heaven because of miracles attributed to them, and then simply recognizing that status in Heaven.Before Our Lord left this earth, he gave the keys of heaven to the church. Does this means that the church can make judgment on a person, to determine if he is in heaven and declare him a saint ? Is it not GOD and only GOD can judge us ??
You are correct that it is only God that judges us.Before Our Lord left this earth, he gave the keys of heaven to the church. Does this means that the church can make judgment on a person, to determine if he is in heaven and declare him a saint ? Is it not GOD and only GOD can judge us ??
Besides the miracles of the saints, their heroic virtues are investigated and verified. The Church makes her decisions based on careful consideration guided by the light of the Holy Spirit. Yes, it is God who judges us, and He will not allow the Church to err with regards to the things of faith and morals. He has promised to be with us!Before Our Lord left this earth, he gave the keys of heaven to the church. Does this means that the church can make judgment on a person, to determine if he is in heaven and declare him a saint ? Is it not GOD and only GOD can judge us ??
You are correct that it is only God that judges us.
The Church in canonizing a saint only affirms that it believes that the person is truly in Heaven.
When the Church does not canonize someone, it does not say that they are not in Heaven, only that they cannot be sure that they are.
God bless,
Bryan
The Church does not assume the role of God in the determination of sainthood. The Church does not presume to tell God who should go to Heaven. Rather, the Church looks at the evidence provided through God to determine if the supposed saint is really legit. It is not as though God makes a judgement, but then is forced to let someone into Heaven against His will because of a Church ruling.I am not convinced at all. I think it is one of those traditions that needs to be updated. I fully understand that we have saints, so we can imitate them as a role model. But to judge and declare a person is in heaven, that is a thing of GOD and GOD alone !!. Only GOD judges us, and the reason is simple: Only GOD knows your inner soul and heart !!
Well, are you thinking that the Church professes to compile an exhaustive list of saints? In my case, if I do get to Heaven and I’m able to get the favor of a miracle from God while I’m there, I wouldn’t give a rip if I get the credit from the Church by being named a saint.People, including the clergy, can cheat and look at faces !! As for miracles, they also happen outside our church. Also, one day , scientists may discover that the mind has a major, hidden role in miracles !!
If you look at our churches history and facts, you will discover, that Italy has the highest number saints, followed by France and Spain ! Does GOD looks at faces or nationalities ?? !
Why not provide a pointer to this damning evidence? Again, we’re talking about the Church and not bad actors within the Church. It is important to look at what the institution teaches and not what a bad actor does while playing a role.There should be saints from all countries of the world. Recently, we have discovered that we have many saints in Poland, for obvious reasons !!! Certain old church traditions do not make sense any more. They made sense when the church was a supreme materialistic power, when the clergy, and so potential saints, were appointed by kings and queens. Read the history of the middle ages and you will discover the truth about this.
I suppose you’ll need to produce a pointer to a church document that describes the process that you are professing. I do not believe it works that way - and I do not believe the Church says that it is “judging” saints.The church admits that there is a list of saints, whom no evidence exists fo their sainthood. An example is St Publius, who was supposed to have been baptised by St Paul. Same with St Catherine of Alexandria and a host of other so called saints.
The church is human, and even when driven by the Holy Ghost, we are still humans and want to have it our own way, even if we pretend that we are following HIS will throu discernment! This applies to all of us, including the Pope, bishops and cardinals at the Vatican, who process and JUDGE saints. Traditions often fails to bring the truth !
The Catholic Church accepts the Magisterium; it is not “Sola Scriptura”.I try to be a practicing catholic, but some traditions do not make sense to me. The church traditions are not the BIBLE or the GOSPEL.
Please remember that tradition with a small “t” is not the Tradition that the Catholic Church is speaking of.I try to be a practicing catholic, but some traditions do not make sense to me. The church traditions are not the BIBLE or the GOSPEL.
So, you are saying that following the saints could lead to sin? I suppose that a person who attempts to follow a saint’s behavior - but misunderstands - could end up in sin instead of being holy. However, that could happen when reading the Bible too - a misunderstanding of a verse could lead a person to do something incorrect.We are going to be judged by our deeds, and nothing else. Saints show us the way. All other things, including traditions leads us to do saintly deeds, but with an opening eye, as they may lead us otherwise. The devil uses everything to trick us, including holy deeds and things !
There is no requirement for you to go to saints for strength and support. If you do not want to deal with saints, don’t.I try to be a practicing catholic, but some traditions do not make sense to me. The church traditions are not the BIBLE or the GOSPEL.
There is no doubt many many saints in heaven whose names we do not know. What the Church does is look at lives of individuals who are known and whose lives do reflect sainthood.Saints are there as a role model to follow, but not necessarily judged by humans that they are in heaven !
This is true, as far as practice goes. However, it is dogma that saints are experiencing the beatific vision, so we must assent to the fact that saints are in heaven. The Communion of Saints.There is no requirement for you to go to saints for strength and support. If you do not want to deal with saints, don’t.