Malachi 3.1 question

[JeanneH]

Hi,

The Trinity are in heaven with God. Therefore Jesus is there too. I know that while Jesus is in heaven he is spirit right? I know that after the Ascension Jesus is in His glorious body right?

So my question from the DR Malachi 3: 1 Behold I send my angel, and he shall prepare the way before my face. And presently the Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the testament, whom you desire, shall come to his temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts.

I know that the first angel mentioned is John the Baptist but I think the other angel is Jesus. I think that the Lord and angel of the testament are Jesus. So if the other angel is Jesus can one say that before the incarnation that Jesus is an angel? Or does he just take on the form of an angel when or if God sends Him on a mission?

Thanks
Jeanne

 

[GEddie]

Hi,

The Trinity are in heaven with God. Therefore Jesus is there too. I know that while Jesus is in heaven he is spirit right? I know that after the Ascension Jesus is in His glorious body right?

So my question from the DR Malachi 3: 1 Behold I send my angel, and he shall prepare the way before my face. And presently the Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the testament, whom you desire, shall come to his temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts.

I know that the first angel mentioned is John the Baptist but I think the other angel is Jesus. I think that the Lord and angel of the testament are Jesus. So if the other angel is Jesus can one say that before the incarnation that Jesus is an angel? Or does he just take on the form of an angel when or if God sends Him on a mission?

Thanks
Jeanne

Dear Jeanne:

No, Jesus was never an angel, as we understand the word.

I don’t know what version you are using, but in other versions the word used is “messenger” rather than angel. The Greek word anggelos means a messenger. Certainly our LORD was the last “messenger of the covenant”. But He was not an angel, in the sense of bodiless spirit sent by God. He was always God; and after the incarnation He was always a human being. Angels are not “debodied” human beings (if that were possible); they are pure spirits with a unique nature; our LORD as GOD took on a human nature, but never an angel nature.

One should also remember that GOD dwells in eternity. As such, JESUS took His humanness to eternity after His human life, and if you met HIM anywhere in time, you would see a human being not an “angel” (who are unseeable anyway).

ICXC NIKA.

 

[JeanneH]

Dear Jeanne:

No, Jesus was never an angel, as we understand the word.

I don’t know what version you are using, but in other versions the word used is “messenger” rather than angel. The Greek word anggelos means a messenger. Certainly our LORD was the last “messenger of the covenant”. But He was not an angel, in the sense of bodiless spirit sent by God. He was always God; and after the incarnation He was always a human being. Angels are not “debodied” human beings (if that were possible); they are pure spirits with a unique nature; our LORD as GOD took on a human nature, but never an angel nature.

One should also remember that GOD dwells in eternity. As such, JESUS took His humanness to eternity after His human life, and if you met HIM anywhere in time, you would see a human being not an “angel” (who are unseeable anyway).

thanks for the response. I am using the DR version.
Jeanne

ICXC NIKA.

 

[inkaneer]

Hi,

The Trinity are in heaven with God. Therefore Jesus is there too. I know that while Jesus is in heaven he is spirit right? I know that after the Ascension Jesus is in His glorious body right?

So my question from the DR Malachi 3: 1 Behold I send my angel, and he shall prepare the way before my face. And presently the Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the testament, whom you desire, shall come to his temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts.

I know that the first angel mentioned is John the Baptist but I think the other angel is Jesus. I think that the Lord and angel of the testament are Jesus. So if the other angel is Jesus can one say that before the incarnation that Jesus is an angel? Or does he just take on the form of an angel when or if God sends Him on a mission?

Thanks
Jeanne

The word ‘angel’ means messenger. I think newer translations use the word messenger there in place of ‘angel’. Therefore, if you read the passage with that in mind you clear up any confusion of equating Jesus with an angelic [created] being. Jesus was the messenger of the Gospel and John the Baptist was the messenger to prepare the way for Jesus.

 

[JeanneH]

Thanks to you both. I always get what I need from this forum.
God Bless
Jeanne

 

[puzzleannie]

Hi,

The Trinity are in heaven with God. Therefore Jesus is there too. I know that while Jesus is in heaven he is spirit right? I know that after the Ascension Jesus is in His glorious body right?

Thanks
Jeanne

wrong
the Trinity IS God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, three persons in ONE God, that is three persons sharing ONE Divine Nature. Jesus Christ is the Son, Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, true God and true Man and yes He is in heaven, his soul and divinity reunited with his glorified body.

here is the link to one of many good articles on the CA homepage
catholic.com/library/Trinity.asp
you won’t be able to get a good answer to your original question or put it in context until you clarify your understanding of the Trinity, keep working you are doing great

 

[crazzeto]

Hi,

The Trinity are in heaven with God. Therefore Jesus is there too. I know that while Jesus is in heaven he is spirit right? I know that after the Ascension Jesus is in His glorious body right?

So my question from the DR Malachi 3: 1 Behold I send my angel, and he shall prepare the way before my face. And presently the Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the testament, whom you desire, shall come to his temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts.

I know that the first angel mentioned is John the Baptist but I think the other angel is Jesus. I think that the Lord and angel of the testament are Jesus. So if the other angel is Jesus can one say that before the incarnation that Jesus is an angel? Or does he just take on the form of an angel when or if God sends Him on a mission?

Thanks
Jeanne

Well, first of all it’s worth understanding terms. The first one is the term “angel”, which is not in anyway a descriptor of a form of life as the term “human” is a descriptor of a form a life. Rather, “angel” is a job description in much the same sense that “CEO” is a job description. Typically a certin kind of person (the non-caporial beings who have always existed in the presense of God) would perform the task of being an angel, but every so often God finds other messangers whom we typically call “prophits”.

In the case of Malachias 3:1, the “angel” being referred to is not Christ, but rather John the Baptist. Notice:

1 Behold I send my angel, and he shall prepare the way before my face. And presently the Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the testament, whom you desire, shall come to his temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts.

This would more seem to reference Isaias 40:

drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=27&ch=40&l=3&f=s#x

Speak ye to the heart of Jerusalem, and call to her: for her evil is come to an end, her iniquity is forgiven: she hath received of the hand of the Lord double for all her sins. 3 The voice of one crying in the desert: Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make
straight in the wilderness the paths of our God.

And St. Mark 1:3

drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=48&ch=1&l=3&f=s#x

3 A voice of one crying in the desert: Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight his paths.

Lastly, Christ is not “spirit only”. It is his resurrection in glory which gives us the hope of the resurrection of the body and ever lasting life. Christ exists body soul and divinity in heaven, in a glorified body which is the model of what we will get when the living and the dead are resurrected at the second comming.

 

[JeanneH]

Well, first of all it’s worth understanding terms. The first one is the term “angel”, which is not in anyway a descriptor of a form of life as the term “human” is a descriptor of a form a life. Rather, “angel” is a job description in much the same sense that “CEO” is a job description. Typically a certin kind of person (the non-caporial beings who have always existed in the presense of God) would perform the task of being an angel, but every so often God finds other messangers whom we typically call “prophits”.

In the case of Malachias 3:1, the “angel” being referred to is not Christ, but rather John the Baptist. Notice:

This would more seem to reference Isaias 40:

drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=27&ch=40&l=3&f=s#x

And St. Mark 1:3

drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=48&ch=1&l=3&f=s#x

Lastly, Christ is not “spirit only”. It is his resurrection in glory which gives us the hope of the resurrection of the body and ever lasting life. Christ exists body soul and divinity in heaven, in a glorified body which is the model of what we will get when the living and the dead are resurrected at the second comming.

I believe that I said in my original post that the first angel is John the Baptist.

I also said that I know that Jesus is in heaven in His glorified body.

I was more interested in the second use of the word angel.
the RSV CE uses the word messenger.
The DR uses the word angel
The JB use the word angel

So the second angel or messenger is a job description for a nondescript messenger?

 

[JeanneH]

wrong
the Trinity IS God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, three persons in ONE God, that is three persons sharing ONE Divine Nature. Jesus Christ is the Son, Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, true God and true Man and yes He is in heaven, his soul and divinity reunited with his glorified body.

here is the link to one of many good articles on the CA homepage
catholic.com/library/Trinity.asp
you won’t be able to get a good answer to your original question or put it in context until you clarify your understanding of the Trinity, keep working you are doing great

Puzzleannie,

I know the Trinity is God, Jesus and the HS. I just did not phrase my question properly.

I know that the Trinity is 3 persons in One God.

I also know that the first angel of the verse is John the Baptist. Now in another post it was suggested that the second angel, (DR version angel ,and the JB version is angel. RSV CE version has messenger), is a job description. As a CEO is the head of a company but said CEO has a name. Said messenger-angel is a job description for a nondescript spirit.?

I also know that God has myriad angels, messengers, at His disposal and are they all nondescript spirits?