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cpeters
Guest
What does the church teach on whether men and women should live together even if they are not in a relationship and only friends? Does this change if one is not Christian?
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Jen7
Guest
The church’s teachings never change based on who is listening. A non Christian just may not value them to same as a Catholic!
This said, the Church teaches against putting oneself in a near occasion of sin. It is sinful to put yourself in a situation where it’d be easy or likely to sin.
This said, the Church teaches against putting oneself in a near occasion of sin. It is sinful to put yourself in a situation where it’d be easy or likely to sin.
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1ke
Guest
It doesn’t.
I’m not sure why it would, unless there were something nefarious going on, but that would for any roommate, Christian or not.
Choice of housemates is a prudential matter for the Catholic.
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RolandThompsonGunner
Guest
I would think that would only be a concern if there was mutual attraction. I can think of female friends that I have a very platonic relationship with. I could live under the same roof and I don’t think either of us would be tempted to hop into bed together.
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Jen7
Guest
There is also the issue of giving scandal (not that folks seem to care much about this nowadays). There is Biblical precedent (see the book of Macabees) and Church teaching (see the CCC) for avoiding scandal: one should not lead others to believe one is sinning grevieously even if that’s not what is happening.
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phil19034
Guest
There are two problems here:Jen7:
I would think that would only be a concern if there was mutual attraction. I can think of female friends that I have a very platonic relationship with. I could live under the same roof and I don’t think either of us would be tempted to hop into bed together.
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- It’s very possible for two friends (male and female) to fall in love with each other when they are in a close platonic relationship (or at least for one of the friends to fall in love with the other).
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1ke
Guest
Only 23 more days and I yet again get to say before I go: that isn’t what scandal is!!!
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MtnDwellar
Guest
I wish I could give more than 1 like.
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MNathaniel
Guest
This. I used to be roommates with a platonic friend of the opposite sex, and we did just fine. (And my devout, orthodox priest knew my living arrangement and took no issue with it.)
I suppose I’ve heard of some people (usually men, and honestly I’ve only read their self-reporting on the internet) who claim to pine after virtually all women. But most people, so far as I know, are capable of platonic relationships. It’s all about an individual case-by-case assessment.
If you genuinely consider yourself platonic friends with someone (and it’s mutually agreed upon that the relationship really is, and will remain, platonic), then sharing a kitchen and bathroom doesn’t lead in any kind of straight line to hopping in bed with a platonic friend. Indeed, cleaning up after each other in the kitchen or bathroom, and dealing with one another’s at-home tics and habits, might help lean you even further away from attraction in that sense. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:
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Gorgias
Guest
I’ll bite: how is that not scandal?Jen7:
Only 23 more days and I yet again get to say before I go: that isn’t what scandal is!!!
Let’s suppose that, by my actions, I lead folks to believe that it cannot be an occasion of sin for a man and woman who are unmarried to live together, so… they take up such an arrangement, and fall into sin. Have I not been a cause of scandal to them? Has my behavior not led others into evil? Have I not been a tempter of others?
Even better, if I am in a position of role model and do this, have I not taught falsely by my actions? Is this not scandal?
In either case, have I not used my example to lead others to do wrong? And, is this not the sin of scandal?
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StRita3
Guest
Its wiser to be with Catholic brothers if you are a man and sisters in Christ if you are a woman. Its called chastity. St. Paul had women traveling in his group but also they did not live together. People were more naturally segregated in those days.
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1ke
Guest
“What will other people think?” isn’t scandal.
No one in this situation is doing anything immoral. It’s not a sin or an occasion of sin simply to have an opposite sex housemate.
If strangers make assumptions, that’s not scandal.
If people know them, they know they are platonic housemates with their own rooms. Not scandal.
If someone makes an imprudent choice about their own living situation, it isn’t scandal. The two platonic people are not doing anything immoral. The housemates did nothing to encourage or lead another to sin.
No one in this situation is doing anything immoral. It’s not a sin or an occasion of sin simply to have an opposite sex housemate.
If strangers make assumptions, that’s not scandal.
If people know them, they know they are platonic housemates with their own rooms. Not scandal.
If someone makes an imprudent choice about their own living situation, it isn’t scandal. The two platonic people are not doing anything immoral. The housemates did nothing to encourage or lead another to sin.
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Gorgias
Guest
No, but if the impression is that this is a romantic relationship with sexual activity, and by that impression, some are led to think “well… if they can do it, it must not be wrong, so I can ‘play house’ too!”… well, that’s the sin of scandal.
The point is that if people are led to believe that a witness for sin is taking place and that encourages them to sin… then it’s scandal.
After all, it’s “being a tempter of others” that’s in play here.
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1ke
Guest
Again: “what people might think” ISN’T scandal. People assuming bad things isn’t scandal. That’s their own sin.
No. It isn’t.
To be the other’s tempter you have to be actively encouraging them to sin, leading them directly into sin. Doing absolutely nothing wrong isn’t “tempting” another to sin.
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Lea101
Guest
Genuine question here. Where do we draw the line. In today’s culture, you’re assumed to be having sex the moment you introduce someone as your boyfriend.
Even two women/men living together and generally being really close will be seen as a lesbian couple.
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Gorgias
Guest
If you say so, but I think the catechism disagrees with you. The question isn’t whether you’re sinning, but rather, whether through your actions others are led to sin:Gorgias:
No. It isn’t.
Notice that it’s sinful (although not gravely so) even if one is not deliberately attempting to scandalize or if it is an indirect effect.
I get what you’re saying, but if the action would typically be construed in a particular way, and a person chooses to take that action anyway… then that’s scandal.
St Paul disagrees with you, too (Romans 14:13-16):
Paul is saying "I know you’re doing absolutely nothing wrong when you eat meat sacrificed to idols. But, if there are those around you thinks you’re doing something sinful, and your conduct creates a stumbling block for them, then please – don’t destroy them by your conduct.
He’s literally telling us to not create even the appearance of sin! (Which, after all, is the point of this whole thread: “if this creates the appearance of sin (and if it didn’t, then why even ask the question?), then should it be done?”)
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Lara
Guest
Some people look forward to this sort of complication. Especially during Covid lockdowns. But to the original question, it really depends on the two people concerned. A senior lady with a young man is a common arrangement which doesn’t lead to too much scandal. The young man could be a student living in the basement who helps out with mowing the lawn.
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phil19034
Guest
Of course.phil19034:
Some people look forward to this sort of complication. Especially during Covid lockdowns. But to the original question, it really depends on the two people concerned. A senior lady with a young man is a common arrangement which doesn’t lead to too much scandal. The young man could be a student living in the basement who helps out with mowing the lawn.
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