Malta bishop threatens to suspend priests

[josh987654321]

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2017/01/13/maltas-bishops-tell-the-remarried-take-communion-if-you-feel-at-peace-with-god/

A very good source.

Thank you, will see how CAF posters feel about that source (The link to the document didn’t work for me), and if they don’t like it, and if this is legit, I’m sure more sources will come up.

I am shocked to say the least!

The Church has been through rough times before, we just got to hold true and pray for our Holy Father, Bishops, Priests and One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[irishcolleen45]

No, I don’t think so. I think it is only hearsay. W cannot make comment on mere allegation without hearing from the Bishop himself. There is nothing good that can come out in speculating about our Church Clergy, not to mention it is not a very Catholic thing.

My correct question is, “Can a bishop suspend priests who refuse to go against Church teachings”? Yes, I realize priests pledge obedience to the bishop.

 

[Dorothy]

Man this stuff makes me angry, these are supposed to be the shepherds of the Church, Christ’s teachings on divorce and remarriage are unchangeable and contain no ambiguity.

It is either ‘till death do they part’ or it is not, it is either ‘in sickness and in health’ or it is not, you can’t have it both ways.

So theoretically, I could marry someone in the Catholic Church, and then she could just decide to divorce me and remarry someone else, then she could turn around the next day and be in full communion with the Catholic Church?

I guess there’s nothing I can really do about it, other then hang on and pray for the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Especially for any priests under the authority of the Bishops of Malta that they can resist any moves that clearly violates the teachings of Christ such as communion for the divorced and remarried and not schism.

One can find a place in the Church for such people, especially Eucharistic Adoration, without giving them communion.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

Please read responses #5 and 6 in this thread. It will give you another way of looking at this situation without jumping to conclusions.

Peace,

Dorothy

P.S. Even in worst case scenarios keep trusting in the Lord and remember to pray for our enemies.

 

[josh987654321]

Please read responses #5 and 6 in this thread. It will give you another way of looking at this situation without jumping to conclusions.

I did, but posts #5 & #6 didn’t really clarify anything or give me another way of looking at it.

Peace,

Dorothy

P.S. Even in worst case scenarios keep trusting in the Lord and remember to pray for our enemies.

I agree.

Thank you and God Bless You.

 

[TMC]

I never said that.

I never said that either, I don’t know much about lifesitenews, however, I have heard plenty regarding the ambiguity in AL over this subject (e.g. Dubia), I have heard of other sources regarding the Bishops of Malta saying okay to communion for the divorced and remarried citing AL, and if that is the case, then this is only the next logical step.

So the Bishops of Malta have said ‘no’ to communion for the divorced and remarried? If so then I apologies and retract everything I have said and will put this down to fake news. I have not seen that reported anywhere yet.

I am Catholic. The Catholic Church has always taught and upheld the indissolubility of marriage. This is what caused King Henry to break away from the Catholic Church and create the Church of England.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

I understand that you may be embarrassed by your past statements, but that is what you said. You are viciously attacking the Pope and the bishops and defending an on-line rag. If you want to disagree with the Pope’s teaching or the way it is implemented, you could maybe try to do that in a civil and reasonable manner. If the Pope or the Bishop of Malta were standing before you would you call them Herod to their face?

 

[Lost4words]

I hope this thread doesn’t get locked as we need to discuss this issue.

 

[Ginny89]

So now the Pope and the bishops are King Herod and whatever hacks churn out lifesitenews are John the Baptist? I thought you were Catholic?

Strawman. He did not call the Pope or these bishops Herod He used Herod to refute the argument that being “gifted and knowledgeable” is enough to prevent criticism of this reported action, if it turns out to be true.

 

[Ginny89]

I understand that you may be embarrassed by your past statements, but that is what you said. You are viciously attacking the Pope and the bishops and defending an on-line rag. If you want to disagree with the Pope’s teaching or the way it is implemented, you could maybe try to do that in a civil and reasonable manner. If the Pope or the Bishop of Malta were standing before you would you call them Herod to their face?

You are telling an untruth. Is this another attempt for someone to shut down views they dislike? This poster did not call any Pope or Bishop Herod. He answered “even Herod was gifted” to a post that tried to claim that no one should dare critize the action reported in the OP because these bishops are gifted and knowledgeable.

 

[Pulvis]

I am saddened to see the same tactics used by the progressive left in politics brought into discussions by Faithful Catholics on events and issues that directly affect the Faith. This should be a forum where information can be passed freely, opinions can be stated, and corrections can be given with Charity and respect. If one sees a post that is misinformed on theology, Church law, or other points of Church practice, i expect it to be corrected by those more knowledgeable. I know I would welcome such correction, and have in the past. But to attack a post simply from a personal opinion or preference standpoint is less than Charitable and not worthy of us as Catholics. Many are confused and searching in this current era and open discussion is needed to help those less knowledgeable to understand and gain a proper perspective. Not forum fights where a thread devolves into a fight to see who wins.

 

[Reuben_J]

My correct question is, “Can a bishop suspend priests who refuse to go against Church teachings”? Yes, I realize priests pledge obedience to the bishop.

But why is the question? In other word, can a bishop suspend priests who stand by the Church, you using double negative, meaning that wasn’t it?

So what is going on in there? Is the Bishop asking his priests to go against the Church teaching? Are you sure about this or are you just speculating on a news coverage without confirming it with the Bishop first? You know, it is not so difficult to just ask the Bishop or his office for confirmation.

Otherwise we are only speculating, which is amounting to gossiping, and negatively at that, about the Church clergy. I think that is not right. Get the fact right first, understand what is meant by the Pope, then comment.

 

[josh987654321]

I understand that you may be embarrassed by your past statements,

I’m not embarrassed by them.

but that is what you said. You are viciously attacking the Pope and the bishops and defending an on-line rag.

Please see post #28

If you want to disagree with the Pope’s teaching

In regards to AL, there seems to be a bit of confusion as to what that is.

or the way it is implemented,

If by ‘implemented’ you mean communion for the divorced and remarried, then yes. Because it would contradict the sacrament, as marriage is either indissoluble or it isn’t. We can’t have it both ways.

you could maybe try to do that in a civil and reasonable manner.

I try, any advice on how you would say it?

If the Pope or the Bishop of Malta were standing before you would you call them Herod to their face?

Of course not. Nor did the analogy liken the Bishops of Malta to King Herod as that wouldn’t fit with the analogy anyway.

I mentioned John the Baptist and King Herod in regards to the outraged expressed at daring to question the Bishops of Malta who are reported to be admitting communion to the divorced and remarried citing their interpretation of AL.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Reuben_J]

I mentioned John the Baptist and King Herod in regards to the outraged expressed at daring to question the Bishops of Malta who are reported to be admitting communion to the divorced and remarried citing their interpretation of AL.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

Hi Josh. I hope you realize how serious your allegation is. If you did not mean it, then why analogized with John the Baptist and King Herod? You admitted you did not quite understand the document. Would not it be better to understand what it is first and its context?

No offense but should we not be more respectful and to trust our clergy? Sure we can disagree, but would not it be better to disagree with what actually being meant instead of jumping to a conclusion on something we are not very sure of?

 

[NeedImprovement]

In the Catholic Herald article linked by Lost4words , they link to a PDF of the document published by the Archdiocese of Malta and the diocese of Gozo . . .can be read by clicking HERE.

There are two items in play here which should not be confused :

1. The Instruction issued by the Maltese Bishops.
2. Whether these two Maltese Bishops - Most Rev. Charles J. Scicluna ,Archbishop of Malta and Most Rev. Mario Grech , Bishop of Gozo , did threaten to suspend priests who did not follow their instruction.

As recent as yesterday, item # 2 was reported to still only be a ***rumor ***on Father Z’s blog . They’re citing an Italian source for the, let’s say it again, "rumour". Messainlatino.it , which we should point out, is a blog.

So . . .no real evidence at this point, to support the** rumour** that priests of Malta are being threatened with such suspension.

That being said, on January 17, 2017 the timesofMalta.com reported , summarily and with accuracy that,

“The guidelines say that divorced and remarried Catholics can receive Holy Communion and act as godparents if they feel at peace with God after a process of reflection.” (as borne out in numbers 10 & 11 of their document)

Canonist Dr Ed Peters in his article The Maltese directive makes answering the ‘dubia’ urgent , closes by saying,

I pray that the Maltese bishops repent of their failure to “exercise vigilance so that abuses do not creep into ecclesiastical discipline especially regarding …the celebration of the sacraments” (Canon 392 § 2); and I pray that the teachings of Christ and his Church penetrate our minds and hearts more deeply.

I think it is a good idea to pray with him. We should probably add the Diocese of San Diego to our prayers as well. .

Before stating

“I am saddened by the reaction from certain quarters and invite priests who may have concerns to come forward and discuss them directly with us [the bishops] because we want to be a service to our people,”

perhaps it would have been more prudent of Mgr Scicluna to have weighed the words of Cardinal Caffarra - explaining why the Dubia had to be submitted in the first place:

Cardinal Caffarra told a story of one priest who had written to him about his difficulty in giving spiritual direction. The priest had a penitent who was in a relationship with a divorced woman. When the priest explained how the man could correct his situation, the man replied: “Listen, Father, the Pope said that I can receive the Eucharist, without the resolution to live in continence.”

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2017/01/16/cardinal-caffarra-the-dubia-matter-because-peoples-salvation-is-at-stake/

*This *is what the Instruction of the Maltese Bishops will end up promoting - regardless of whether the rumour of priests being threatened with suspension is true or not.

 

[Seamus_L]

Here’s Catholic Culture. Org’s review of Lifesite News
catholicculture.org/culture/reviews/view.cfm?recnum=4327

 

[porthos11]

But why is the question? In other word, can a bishop suspend priests who stand by the Church, you using double negative, meaning that wasn’t it?

So what is going on in there? Is the Bishop asking his priests to go against the Church teaching? Are you sure about this or are you just speculating on a news coverage without confirming it with the Bishop first? You know, it is not so difficult to just ask the Bishop or his office for confirmation.

Otherwise we are only speculating, which is amounting to gossiping, and negatively at that, about the Church clergy. I think that is not right. Get the fact right first, understand what is meant by the Pope, then comment.

The Maltese document is out there in all its scandalous glory. The suspension threat is only rumour but there is no question about the disaster that is the Maltese document.

1. Throughout the discernment process, we should also examine the possibility of conjugal continence. Despite the fact that this ideal is not at all easy, there may be couples who, with the help of grace, practice this virtue without putting at risk other aspects of their life together. On the other hand, there are complex situations where the choice of living “as brothers and sisters” becomes humanly impossible and give rise to greater harm (see AL, note 329).
2. If, as a result of the process of discernment, undertaken with “humility, discretion and love for the Church and her teaching, in a sincere search for God’s will and a desire to make a more perfect response to it” (AL 300), a separated or divorced person who is living in a new relationship manages, with an informed and enlightened conscience, to acknowledge and believe that he or she are at peace with God, he or she cannot be precluded from participating in the sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist (see AL, notes 336 and 351).

You cannot spin that. Josh is scandalized as are many others. Contrast that with the statements by the bishops of Alberta and the North American Ordinariate and one cannot avoid seeing the chaos.

Read the document yourself the tell us how this can even be given a remotely orthodox reading.

 

[Reuben_J]

*This *is what the Instruction of the Maltese Bishops will end up promoting - regardless of whether the rumour of priests being threatened with suspension is true or not.

What individual Catholics think and do can differ greatly and it would be a mistake to come to a conclusion by making that generalisation.

The Bishops instruction should be read slowly and attentively. On the surface, it is very much in line with the Church teaching because it asks divorced couples to seek annulment. More importantly, every case should be seen individually by the priests with the compassion of Christ to walk (accompaniment) with them. It warns not to go into extreme into both sides, either too strictly or into laxity.

The excerpt here:

1. Above all, we must always keep in mind that our pastoral ministry towards persons who live in **complex family situations, is the same ministry of the Church who is Mother and Teacher. As priests, we have the duty to enlighten consciences by proclaiming Christ and the full ideal of the Gospel. At the same time, in the footsteps of Christ himself, we have the duty to exercise the “art of accompaniment” **and to become a source of trust, hope, and inclusion for those who request to see Jesus (see Jn 12, 21), especially for those persons who are most vulnerable (see AL, 291, 296, 308; EG 169).
2. When we meet or come to know of persons who find themselves in so called “irregular” situations, we need to commit ourselves to enter in dialogue with them and to come to know them in a spirit of authentic charity. If, subsequently, they show a genuine desire or Criteria for the Application of Chapter VIII of Amoris Lætitia 3 accept to engage in a serious process of personal discernment about their situation, we should accompany them willingly on this journey, with true respect, care and attention.
3. Before dealing with the pastoral care of those disciples of the Lord that have gone through the experience of failure in their marriage and are now living in a new relationship, we would like to address the situation of those who cohabit or who have only married civilly. These situations call for “pastoral care that is merciful and helpful” (AL 293) and **“require a constructive response seeking to transform them into opportunities that can lead to the full reality of marriage and family in conformity with the Gospel” **(AL 294). In pastoral discernment it is important to distinguish between one situation and another.
4. We now address our ministry with persons who are either separated and divorced, who have entered a new union. **If during the discernment process with these people, a reasonable doubt arises concerning the validity or consummation of their canonical marriage, **we should propose that these people make a request for a declaration of the nullity or dissolution of their marriage bond.
5. Throughout this discernment, an adequate distinction should be made between one situation and another, because not all cases are the same.
6. It would be appropriate that throughout this process of discernment, we accompany these people to make “an examination of conscience through moments of reflection and repentance”, in which they “should ask themselves: how did they act towards their children when the conjugal union entered into crisis; whether or not they made attempts at reconciliation; what has become of the abandoned party; what consequences the new relationship has on the rest of the family and the community of the faithful; and what example is being set for young people who are preparing for marriage” (AL 300). This applies in a special way for those cases in which a person acknowledges his or her own responsibility for the failure of the marriage.

7. Throughout the discernment process, we need to weigh the moral responsibility in particular situations, with due consideration to the conditioning restraints and attenuating circumstances.

8. “By thinking that everything is black and white, we sometimes close off the way of grace and of growth, and discourage paths of sanctification which give glory to God” (AL 305).

1. Throughout the discernment process, we should also examine the possibility of conjugal continence.

10. If, as a result of the process of discernment, undertaken with “humility, discretion and love for the Church and her teaching, in a sincere search for God’s will and a desire to make a more perfect response to it” (AL 300), a separated or divorced person who is living in a new relationship manages, with an informed and enlightened conscience, to acknowledge and believe that he or she are at peace with God, he or she cannot be precluded from participating in the sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist (see AL, notes 336 and 351).

1. During this discernment process, we should examine with these people, how “their participation can be expressed in different ecclesial services”, particularly within “the liturgical, pastoral, educational and institutional frameworks” (AL 299).

**12. In this journey of accompaniment, we must listen to and give value to the suffering of the persons who are innocent victims to separation, divorce or abandonment. **Conditions of poverty make this pain even more traumatic. Forgiving an injustice suffered and endured is far from easy, but grace makes this journey possible (see AL 242).

1. While exercising our ministry, we must be careful to avoid falling into extremes: into extreme rigour on the one hand, and laxity on the other.

 

[Reuben_J]

1. In order to avoid any cause for scandal or confusion among the faithful (see AL 299), we must do our utmost in order to inform ourselves and our communities by studying and promoting the teachings of Amoris Lætitia. This teaching requires us to undergo a “pastoral conversion” (EG 25). Together with the Pope, we do understand those who would prefer a “more rigorous pastoral care”, but together with him, we believe that “Jesus wants a Church attentive to the goodness which the Holy Spirit sows in the midst of human weakness, a Mother who, while clearly expressing her objective teaching, ‘always does what good she can, even if in the process, her shoes get soiled by the mud of the street’” (AL 308).

 

[Reuben_J]

The Maltese document is out there in all its scandalous glory. The suspension threat is only rumour but there is no question about the disaster that is the Maltese document.

1. Throughout the discernment process, we should also examine the possibility of conjugal continence. Despite the fact that this ideal is not at all easy, there may be couples who, with the help of grace, practice this virtue without putting at risk other aspects of their life together. On the other hand, there are complex situations where the choice of living “as brothers and sisters”** becomes humanly impossible and give rise to greater harm** (see AL, note 329).
2. If, as a result of the process of discernment, undertaken with “humility, discretion and love for the Church and her teaching, in a sincere search for God’s will and a desire to make a more perfect response to it” (AL 300), a separated or divorced person who is living in a new relationship manages, with an informed and enlightened conscience, to acknowledge and believe that he or she are at peace with God, he or she cannot be precluded from participating in the sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist (see AL, notes 336 and 351).

So it asks for conjugal continence and what to do when it becomes humanly impossible and give rise to greater harm.

 

[porthos11]

So it asks for conjugal continence and what to do when it becomes humanly impossible and give rise to greater harm.

Go on

And number 10?

 

[Reuben_J]

Go on

And number 10?

1. If, as a result of the process of discernment, undertaken with** “humility, discretion and love for the Church and her teaching, in a sincere search for God’s will and a desire to make a more perfect response to it” **(AL 300), a separated or divorced person who is living in a new relationship manages, with an informed and enlightened conscience, to acknowledge and believe that he or she are at peace with God, he or she cannot be precluded from participating in the sacraments of Reconciliation and the Eucharist (see AL, notes 336 and 351).