Man Asking For Change After Mass

[MaryT777]

This has been going on at my parish too, but not just one person, usually its numerous people, sometimes 10-15, they wait for the priest to get finished saying mass, and then once he goes to the rectory, they hit him up for money. This has been going on for awhile now and has caused a lot of debate among parish members, some dont think its right and the other half think its OK.

He is not really giving them much anyway, what I heard its around $20-40. per person, and this does not happen at every mass.

I dont really have a problem with it, I give money to beggars when I have extra, and I know they may not always be planning to use it for good things, but I dont think its right to refrain from giving based on what they might do.

Ive also seen a few people stop at one of my stores, asking where the nearest church is, so I think the word is out, that priests will give money out to those who ask

’

Same thing at our parish. We had a man coming weekly to daily Mass and then hitting up our priest(s) (sometimes they concelebrated) for money. They found out from the Methodist Minister in the church next to us that he was also getting money from him right after he got money from our priests.

Last I heard an update, the priests started telling him they had no money with them but apparently offered him other assistance which he refused.

You do never know sadly.

 

[jcrichton]

Sure, no issue with that. And rightly too, if you know he is a scammer.

On the other hand, we are Christians. People beg because they want assistance to whatever their situation is. Nobody wants to beg if they can help it. It is humiliating and undignified.

Giving a few cents or a dollar will not cost us much but it can make a different to the one who needs it at that particular moment. It is also not for us to tell him to clean the mess in his life. Giving is a virtue and it has to start somewhere.

I used to refuse to give, not because I was not generous but because I thought beggars were lazy and did not want to help themselves. And yes, sometimes, they were not genuine.

One day I was sitting at a cafeteria eating with my daughter. Then came this woman with a child in her arm, obviously asking for sympathy, approached our table and asked for money. I looked at her in disgust and confidently shook my head. She quickly made a beeline out of the cafeteria and disappeared, out of sight.

I came to my senses that whatever her trick was, the child she was carrying was a real child, not any doll or a cat or a dog. I quickly got up from my table to look for her wanting to give her money but she was nowhere to be seen.

Today I lived to regret my action.

I have nothing to lose with a few dollars if the beggar is not bona fide but if he is, I would have missed that chance to be generous to follow what my Lord wants me to do. I remember that what I have is also God’s providence and rightly to be shared, and I can play my part. I don’t have to be Mother Teresa, but in my own small world, there are still many good things that I can do.

Sometimes that cannot wait for me to make that evaluation whether the person who asks for my money is genuine or not. Like that woman, apparently it was quite difficult for her to do it but which she had to do. If I hesitate, I may not get a second chance, as she would be gone.

I think refusing to give a man who comes to our sanctuary, sitting in the pew of our church, asking for a few loose changes, would be quite uncharitable, to say the least. And that is my context in saying this.

Hi, Reuben!
I concur with you about the insignificant change that giving up a few coins or a dollar would make in our lives and the opportunity that is lost when we do not behave in a generous manner…

Yet, there are unconscientious people in the world who use both the knowledge of Christianity and the happenstance of poverty as a lucrative means to feed their habits (be it drugs or lifestyle–bling-bling); then there’s the enabling–too many times “beggars” can be spotted as fixtures in certain neighborhoods/places–these are outright “professional beggars,” which I would never assist. Yet, for the most part it is not as clear. So we must allow our conscience to rule the moment–hoping that we can improve both as Christians and as judges of character.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

This has been going on at my parish too, but not just one person, usually its numerous people, sometimes 10-15, they wait for the priest to get finished saying mass, and then once he goes to the rectory, they hit him up for money. This has been going on for awhile now and has caused a lot of debate among parish members, some dont think its right and the other half think its OK.

He is not really giving them much anyway, what I heard its around $20-40. per person, and this does not happen at every mass.

I dont really have a problem with it, I give money to beggars when I have extra, and I know they may not always be planning to use it for good things, but I dont think its right to refrain from giving based on what they might do.

Ive also seen a few people stop at one of my stores, asking where the nearest church is, so I think the word is out, that priests will give money out to those who ask, but even so, I still dont disagree, its natural some will try to take advantage of this, cant really do anything about that without hurting the ones who do truly need it.

Hi, Mike!
…but this is not just helping the poor but enabling them… there’s a local place where food and other things are provided… people go there who have jobs or are on social services–they ransack the food/clothes bags dropping what is not wanted right on the street/sidewalk; sadly, I am sure that people who are truly in need may not be aware or able to access these programs.

Though a few hundred dollars is nothing… there will come a time when beggars would not wait for the priest but will demand (take) from the parishioners (and priest). I think that creating an organized/formal outreach program (food pantry/distribution) would deter the begging issue since the base need would be covered.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[JimG]

I was asked for money by a man who came to the adoration chapel in the middle of the night. I gave him money, then wished I hadn’t. There are adorers taking holy hours through out the night, often just one woman, alone. I don’t want the chapel to become a place where they will not feel safe. Later I saw a notice asking us not to give money, but to refer persons to the church office. The church office is open only during the day. Once a precedent for giving money is set, it may tend to perpetuate itself. And our diocese has many organizations that can help those in need.

 

[jmcrae]

What would St. Francis have done?

St. Francis would have taken him into the monastery and put him to work.

We can’t always do things like that.

It’s important to ensure that when someone is asking for help, we make sure they know where the helping agencies are, and how to access the services they need - homeless shelters (the kind that provide life skills training and assistance with job interviews, landlord interviews, etc.), job retraining, food banks, soup kitchens, and places they can go to drop in for a quick shower and change of clothes without having to explain themselves, places to get bus tickets, and so on.

This may be worth more to a homeless person than a few bucks here and there, or endless coffee and sandwiches.

It also helps to ask them what their goals are, and what they hope to achieve by the end of the day. They need money, yes - but for what? There are jobs in such and such a place, and I was hoping to get there and apply - okay, so the keys to unlocking the goal are, a bus ticket, a shower, and some work clothes - so you guide them to how they can get these - rather than just giving them money and hoping they don’t spend it on drugs.

 

[whatsmyname]

I would be taken aback if someone asked me for money at mass. And I rarely carry cash with me so I would have been no help.

For the past several weeks, there’s been a family standing just outside of my church begging for money. I’ve referred them to the church office where they can inquire about job referrals, the poverty program and food bank. I’ve seen the sisters giving them food from our food bank. But they still stand there every week with their sign asking for money.

I don’t know if those in charge of the church programs weren’t able to help or if they just want/need more than the church is offering. I have another acquaintance who I have bought groceries for; she says her family of 9 make too much income to qualify for assistance from the church programs.

I did notice that her family, while unable to afford food, can afford pot, cigarettes, a cable package with more channels than I’ve ever heard of, and an enormous television that I would have sold to buy food, but perhaps they’re getting those items from some other charitable person. She’s also rejected my sharing of frugal recipes and meal plans I use myself. I just wanted her to be able to stretch her grocery budget further and not go hungry.

I do donate generously to the church programs as I prefer to channel my help for others through a program run by experienced people who can dole out the charity in an appropriate manner…and because I get very judgmental and resentful when I compare the lifestyles of those “in need” with my own rather bare bones lifestyle. My gift is in happily donating quite a bit of money to programs; I need a lot more work before I’ll be able to donate it directly to flawed individuals with that same joy.

 

[Thursday1]

I never carried cash or gave to beggars until I read Les Misérables. I think reading that book should be a requirement for starting your adult life. There are hundreds of passages that will change the way you think about the poor, but this is one of my favorites:

This brother, of whom hardly a memory is left, was a quiet miser who being a priest felt obliged to give alms to the poor whom he met, but never gave them anything more than coppers or worn out sous, finding thus the means of going to Hell by the road to Paradise.

So now I always carry 1s or 5s, and give them to whoever asks. I only ask that they give me their name, so I can remember them in my prayers. If they use the money for drugs or other vices, that is between them and God (with the obvious exception being it is on me if they tell me they need money for drugs, in which case I would refuse), but if they were to go hungry because I didn’t give them a few dollars, that is between me and God, and I know what he will say.

Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;

 

[Adonia]

Hi!
…don’t know if you are aware that your screen name is quite similar to one of God’s names (Adonai)…

I commend you for your practice (food for the needy); I think that if more of us were to do this Christ’s Love would truly be reflected in Christianity–though I would rather see more of a hand’s on approach: when a man is taught to fish…

I concur with you on the caution with offering money–too many times children go hungry while being used (even by their parents) to beg for money.

Maran atha!

Angel

Yes, I know about the name, but in my case it was my grandfathers name (though everyone called him “Pete”).

I try to do my best with this giving thing, as it is what we are called to do. I have money and all I can eat, how can I not give food to someone who is hungry? As some others have said here, I also converse with them and find out how they came to this point in their lives. I also tell them that the trucking industry needs drivers and these big companies offer free training with a few stipulations. Hopefully some have looked into it and were able to move on to a better place in life.

 

[Adonia]

’

Same thing at our parish. We had a man coming weekly to daily Mass and then hitting up our priest(s) (sometimes they concelebrated) for money. They found out from the Methodist Minister in the church next to us that he was also getting money from him right after he got money from our priests.

Last I heard an update, the priests started telling him they had no money with them but apparently offered him other assistance which he refused.

You do never know sadly.

Many don’t want assistance, just cold hard cash for drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes.

 

[jmcrae]

Many don’t want assistance, just cold hard cash for drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes.

And some are looking for where you keep your wallet, to inform pickpockets who will rob you later in the day - or they are distracting you while one of their friends robs someone else.

 

[Reuben_J]

I never carried cash or gave to beggars until I read Les Misérables. I think reading that book should be a requirement for starting your adult life. There are hundreds of passages that will change the way you think about the poor, but this is one of my favorites:

So now I always carry 1s or 5s, and give them to whoever asks. I only ask that they give me their name, so I can remember them in my prayers. If they use the money for drugs or other vices, that is between them and God (with the obvious exception being it is on me if they tell me they need money for drugs, in which case I would refuse), but if they were to go hungry because I didn’t give them a few dollars, that is between me and God, and I know what he will say.

May God bless you, my bro.

Reuben.

 

[jcrichton]

St. Francis would have taken him into the monastery and put him to work.

We can’t always do things like that.

It’s important to ensure that when someone is asking for help, we make sure they know where the helping agencies are, and how to access the services they need - homeless shelters (the kind that provide life skills training and assistance with job interviews, landlord interviews, etc.), job retraining, food banks, soup kitchens, and places they can go to drop in for a quick shower and change of clothes without having to explain themselves, places to get bus tickets, and so on.

This may be worth more to a homeless person than a few bucks here and there, or endless coffee and sandwiches.

It also helps to ask them what their goals are, and what they hope to achieve by the end of the day. They need money, yes - but for what? There are jobs in such and such a place, and I was hoping to get there and apply - okay, so the keys to unlocking the goal are, a bus ticket, a shower, and some work clothes - so you guide them to how they can get these - rather than just giving them money and hoping they don’t spend it on drugs.

Hi, JM!
I concur with you–today’s world is not St. Francis’s (my childhood’s world is not today’s world) where even atheists held some respect for the Holiness of the Church, the Cleric, and the Religious–even if only for the sake of decorum.

Man, in spite of “progress,” has became more base and egocentric (I would dare say even more so than Romans and Barbarians) than ever before… the culture (worldwide) is becoming openly hostile to God and neighbor… so, as with a box of chocolates, you never know what you might get–organized charity, which includes what you’ve mentioned, is the better way to go.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I would be taken aback if someone asked me for money at mass. And I rarely carry cash with me so I would have been no help.

For the past several weeks, there’s been a family standing just outside of my church begging for money. I’ve referred them to the church office where they can inquire about job referrals, the poverty program and food bank. I’ve seen the sisters giving them food from our food bank. But they still stand there every week with their sign asking for money.

I don’t know if those in charge of the church programs weren’t able to help or if they just want/need more than the church is offering. I have another acquaintance who I have bought groceries for; she says her family of 9 make too much income to qualify for assistance from the church programs.

I did notice that her family, while unable to afford food, can afford pot, cigarettes, a cable package with more channels than I’ve ever heard of, and an enormous television that I would have sold to buy food, but perhaps they’re getting those items from some other charitable person. She’s also rejected my sharing of frugal recipes and meal plans I use myself. I just wanted her to be able to stretch her grocery budget further and not go hungry.

I do donate generously to the church programs as I prefer to channel my help for others through a program run by experienced people who can dole out the charity in an appropriate manner…and because I get very judgmental and resentful when I compare the lifestyles of those “in need” with my own rather bare bones lifestyle. My gift is in happily donating quite a bit of money to programs; I need a lot more work before I’ll be able to donate it directly to flawed individuals with that same joy.

Hi!
(…did you pick your screen name from “Grimm?”)

…aside from the resentful part, I don’t think you’re doing too bad–Christ Call is to give generously not to enable bad behavior.

Too often I’ve seen people with children (even in the coldest winter days) seeking handouts… those I’ve tested have been 99% money centered and not actually needy.

So yes, give till it hurts (from happy generosity) but do it through organized charity (if your parish does not have it… well, what’s wrong with being Christ’s hands, feet, and brain? …get up and organize something!); the true needy would be better served.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Petaro]

He would have told the man to ‘get lost’!

There is a homeless man always hanging around the parking lot after mass and asking for money.
A woman who was a little frightened told the pastor, and he told the guy to go to a homeless shelter and stop bothering the people, around the church.

There are plenty of food programs & shelters for them.

From the little I have read of the life of St. Francis, I doubt that would be his first reaction. It is so easy to send off the “unworthy” poor to the institutional frameworks of charity, discarding our personal response to their need. These programmes are valuable but they need our support. If we can say we support them with our personal donations then we may have some excuse to direct these people who are falling through the cracks of our society to them. However:

"34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

I told the man to get lost somehow doesn’t cut it to me.

 

[truetofaith]

You dont appear to know much about St. Francis:shrug:

PLEASE! I was making a funny point.

Now read what I wrote about what the pastor said to the man, begging after Mass.

 

[truetofaith]

From the little I have read of the life of St. Francis, I doubt that would be his first reaction. It is so easy to send off the “unworthy” poor to the institutional frameworks of charity, discarding our personal response to their need. These programmes are valuable but they need our support. If we can say we support them with our personal donations then we may have some excuse to direct these people who are falling through the cracks of our society to them. However:

"34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

I told the man to get lost somehow doesn’t cut it to me.

In the example I gave, this homeless man wanted $28 to get a room for the night at a motel. He would need to beg a few bucks from a few scared old people.
The pastor knows the parish has a homeless shelter & a food pantry which this man did not want to go to. He was probably going to use the money to buy booze or drugs. This is not a case of not helping a poor person.
The pastor realized this…
Too bad you can’t understand it, also!

 

[jcrichton]

In the example I gave, this homeless man wanted $28 to get a room for the night at a motel. He would need to beg a few bucks from a few scared old people.
The pastor knows the parish has a homeless shelter & a food pantry which this man did not want to go to. He was probably going to use the money to buy booze or drugs. This is not a case of not helping a poor person.
The pastor realized this…
Too bad you can’t understand it, also!

Hi!
…when one has more than enough it is easy to drop some money on a problem…

However, dropping money or excuses is nothing short of enabling.

I have very little money (most of the times); yet, I have assisted individuals and families (not cash handouts) through various means… there’s that old Catholic Tradition called Lent… people save their moneys and give to those who seem “needy.” It is a great exercise… but, without passing judgment, I wonder how helpful is that, when the people who are truly needy seldom have lost their sense of decency and honor and the second they are informed of a program that can aide them/their families they seek it rather than insist on “give me cash?” So rather than dropping dough, I would ask what is needed at that moment (food, diapers, baby food?) and I offer to help acquire it (even if I have the money on hand I would not disclose that).

Not the same for those who even when food, shelter, clothing, possibility of employment or social inclusion is offered; they insist on “cash,” ie: Once, coming out of a store a met a young fellow who spoke to me… I had been distracted and thought that he had asked me for some money–when I offered a dollar to him, he refused it; he then quickly explained that he wanted me to get him some beer (there was a liquor store right next to the grocery store)–he even offered to give me money as an incentive to get the beer for him; I apologized for the misunderstanding and for not being able to assist him… while we cannot judge the intentions of others, we must understand that the poor and needy will not always be the ones begging/demanding “cash.”

Interestingly enough, human contact can also be of great aide; this is something that even those with the though may be lacking and could receive from those that do not have it… once I got a weekend job made a few hundred dollars… I spent most of it buying air time to assist a fellow parishioner who was going through heavy turmoil (her issues went as deep as leaving the Faith)–though I needed the money, her need was more important than mine, and it was an actual need.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jeannetherese]

And some are looking for where you keep your wallet,.

Unfortunately, it can be a mistake to let someone see that you have extra money in your wallet.
One of my brothers has been mugged twice giving money to the poor; the advice in an earlier post to keep donation money in a separate pocket, away from your wallet and the adivce to have others with you when sharing may help you to be safe.
We are encouraged by our priest to direct people begging to our ushers who can help and advise them and to donate to the collection basket to create a pool for this help.
For a while we had regular Sunday Roma/Gypsy visitors who would beg with their families at the driveway entrance and exit. Organizing the way we give support has been helpful with this situation, making it safer for the Roma and those trying to cope with traffic and pedestrian movement.
Father does a wonderful job encouraging charity, promoting a sense of safety at our church, and creating avenues to help the poor.
Last Christmas our parish created gift bags for the homeless and distributed them to parishioners after the Mass to take out with them and share in the community. We also have a food clothing bank, pro life support, Saint Vincent de Paul, Lenten meals, and tent city support.
If I give change,(off parish grounds) I sometimes will ask the recipient to pray for someone.
May God bless you.
jt

 

[Petaro]

PLEASE! I was making a funny point.

Now read what I wrote about what the pastor said to the man, begging after Mass.

I am sorry if I read your humour the wrong way. I have been accused of having a dark sense of humour myself.
Many discuss this issue using concepts such as enabling etc, all of which have to be considered in the value of giving.
I have long ago decided not to determine what the person would do with the money, eg spend it on drugs etc; or what nuisance they may be. I just give what I can, seeing Christ in the face of the poor, worthy, or not. If I am wrong and the money is wasted I hope my Christ can see through my folly and recognise that I was blinded by His beauty in the face of His flawed person seeking my charity. I am too simple a man to try to do the maths…