Man-Made Paradise? I'm Skeptical

[3DOCTORS]

This is sort of a combination apologetics and other religions overlap topic.

I have come to realize there are people who believe in God (or some deity) and/or a particular religious faith of some sort or another, who also seriously believe that their religion or deity intends for humanity to sort its problems out. Who attend religious services but shun dogma and moral authority.

We haven’t done such a bang-up job so far.

How do you fix the world and make it a paradise if one bunch believes (for example) that in order to do so, you must protect animal rights but aborting unborn humans is acceptable? Or that it’s wrong to pollute the environment but sex outside of marriage is OK?

Or, to use less traditional-moral issues, what about governmental structures? Economic structures? With no religious authority to guide, how can humans “get it right”?

And personal salvation? What about that? Sacraments? Worship?

I don’t know if I’m being clear enough, and I apologize if I’m not. I’m trying to keep this post generalized for now and not name names or anything else.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Please tell me this isn’t going to be one of my dud threads!

 

[AmericanMuslim]

I have come to realize there are people who believe in God (or some deity) and/or a particular religious faith of some sort or another, who also seriously believe that their religion or deity intends for humanity to sort its problems out. Who attend religious services but shun dogma and moral authority.

It is completely and utterly impossible to have paradise in this life.

Only God can provide the infinite justice that is required.

Man has made great progress technologically. However, while we have reduced some social ills (there are more slaves numerically today than 100 years ago but on a per capita basis it’s much smaller), we have introduced others.

I personally think it’s debatable that we’ve made any progress as a species at all. Abortion alone has killed 22 million infants so far this year. Annually, it’s close to 50 million. 50 million babies a year!

Add in substance abuse, pornography, gambling, war, etc. and we are hardly better than the ancients. Sure, we have a United Nations and some international frameworks, etc. but our wars kill tens if not hundreds of thousands at a time, sometimes even tens of millions.

True, we’ve made tremendous technological progress, and some social ills have been erased. But those I’ve listed are true horrors.

I think this world will always be awful. But I believe we are called to struggle to make it better. You and I cannot make this world paradise, but we can certainly make the lives of those we come into contact better…even if our small changes are outweighed by global-scale horror, we must still try.

And after that, you get to the real paradise

 

[Sufjon]

This is sort of a combination apologetics and other religions overlap topic.

I have come to realize there are people who believe in God (or some deity) and/or a particular religious faith of some sort or another, who also seriously believe that their religion or deity intends for humanity to sort its problems out. Who attend religious services but shun dogma and moral authority.

We haven’t done such a bang-up job so far.

How do you fix the world and make it a paradise if one bunch believes (for example) that in order to do so, you must protect animal rights but aborting unborn humans is acceptable? Or that it’s wrong to pollute the environment but sex outside of marriage is OK?

Or, to use less traditional-moral issues, what about governmental structures? Economic structures? With no religious authority to guide, how can humans “get it right”?

And personal salvation? What about that? Sacraments? Worship?

I don’t know if I’m being clear enough, and I apologize if I’m not. I’m trying to keep this post generalized for now and not name names or anything else.

Hi 3Doctors: I suppose it all depends on what one is looking for when we say paradise. This world is as it is by nature, and to me it seems to works like a signwave. If there is a peak of a certain amplitude there has to be a corresponding low of the same amplitude. We spend most of our lives seeking the highs and dreading the lows, so it’s almost like we’re on a roller coaster ride of highs and lows, good things and bad things. And so it goes until we seek something more than the dramas of day to day experience. I don’t know if there are religions that teach that humankind can create a paradise on this earth, but I know that there are religions that teach that we can create a paradise within ourselves. I know that my faith doesn’t believe that the attainment of this is a trans-personal or shared experience, but a thing that can be achieved on a personal level, and it’s very much up to people to achieve it through their own effort. We think God will surely help us, but we have to work at it as well.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Dave_B]

Add in substance abuse, pornography, gambling, war, etc. and we are hardly better than the ancients. Sure, we have a United Nations and some international frameworks, etc. but our wars kill tens if not hundreds of thousands at a time, sometimes even tens of millions.

I think you are being overly negative. Yes there are a lot of problems in the world. But many things are getting better. There have been no global wars in the 21st century, unlike WW1 and WW2 in the the 20th.

There are improvements in wealth, technology, women’s rights, homosexual rights and other freedoms. Obvious a lot more can be done, to reduce crime, poverty, and improve fairness and equality. But the glass is half full, not half empty

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I think you are being overly negative. Yes there are a lot of problems in the world. But many things are getting better. There have been no global wars in the 21st century, unlike WW1 and WW2 in the the 20th.

There are improvements in wealth, technology, women’s rights, homosexual rights and other freedoms. Obvious a lot more can be done, to reduce crime, poverty, and improve fairness and equality. But the glass is half full, not half empty

Give us time. We didn’t have any global wars in the first 15 years or so of the 20th century either.

 

[softwareghost]

That’s because all those religions teach people to have a dictatorial mindset. Relgions like Buddhism are the best. They are all about finding yourself, and doing whats best for yourself, and respecting what others believe cause it is best for them, unlike freak shows who go around trying to convert people.