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Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
Try contemplating "The Mystical Body. "
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AveSantaMaria
Guest
Thank you for this thread. It has been an extremely illuminating experience and opened up a new path and motivation for perfect union with Christ. 
It also helps me to clear up some things from St. Therese of Liseux’s writings and St. Maria Faustina’s diary. St. Therese of Liseux once said, “I will spend my Heaven doing good on Earth.” I wondered: how can she plan while she is alive on Earth what she will do during Heaven. She wanted to be a missionary but never got to be one, rather she died at 24.
St. Maria Faustina said in her diary that she thought “her work would truly begin after her death” and Christ repeatedly told her that she would be the secretary of his mercy from now until eternity, or something along those lines. She wanted to establish a covenant for Christ in her life on Earth.
Yet, it seems amazing and powerful to me that despite St. Therese of Liseux being unable to do more than pray for the missionaries because of her illness, she became a Patron Saint of Missionaries.
And I observed Mother Teresa. Her birth name was, Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu, and she renamed herself after St. Therese of Liseux. She was a former British citizen of Albanian descent. Yet, she became one of the greatest missionaries that the world has ever known, winning a Noble Peace Prize in 1979, India’s highest honor the Bharat Ratna (“Jewel of India”) in 1980, and being popularly voted the greatet Indian since the country’s independence in 1947 (excluding Gandhi from consideration) by Indian magazine Outlook in 2002. Even Mother Teresa’s book on Words of Love is remarkably similar to the autobiography of St. Therese of Liseux: The Story of a Soul gutenberg.org/etext/16772 Did St. Therese of Liesux or any of her family ever have any idea that the Pope would call her the “greatest saint of modern times” or that she would be the inspiration for Mother Teresa when she lived her life of faith?
Maybe St. Therese of Liseux, who is now in perfect union with Christ, is spending her Heaven doing good on Earth. Imagine, if she is part of God and someone went so far as to name herself after St. Therese of Liseux and go to a foreign country to be a Missionary, that St. Therese of Liseux isn’t sitting up in Heaven helping to form her in the best way possible to accomplish her works. Maybe also, the extent to which we reach union with Christ is the extent to which we in Heaven are able to have power and glory in serving Christ. So because the purity of St. Therese of Liseux’s intention was so pure and so perfectly/meticulously done, God allowed her the power to do a lot when called upon as an intercessor in Heaven. However, those with less purity of intention and perfect use of free will to conform to the will of Christ have been given less power and glory… going back to the idea of merit 
**More reason to at times force myself to pray and strive to give up the smallest venial sins!!
**
Jesus said, "Amen, I say to you, there is no one who has given up house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands for my sake and for the sake of the gospel who will not receive a hundred times more now in this present age: houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and eternal life in the age to come. But many that are first will be last, and (the) last will be first. Mark 10:30-31
*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *
Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.
For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!
O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us!
*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *
It also helps me to clear up some things from St. Therese of Liseux’s writings and St. Maria Faustina’s diary. St. Therese of Liseux once said, “I will spend my Heaven doing good on Earth.” I wondered: how can she plan while she is alive on Earth what she will do during Heaven. She wanted to be a missionary but never got to be one, rather she died at 24.
St. Maria Faustina said in her diary that she thought “her work would truly begin after her death” and Christ repeatedly told her that she would be the secretary of his mercy from now until eternity, or something along those lines. She wanted to establish a covenant for Christ in her life on Earth.
Yet, it seems amazing and powerful to me that despite St. Therese of Liseux being unable to do more than pray for the missionaries because of her illness, she became a Patron Saint of Missionaries.
And I observed Mother Teresa. Her birth name was, Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu, and she renamed herself after St. Therese of Liseux. She was a former British citizen of Albanian descent. Yet, she became one of the greatest missionaries that the world has ever known, winning a Noble Peace Prize in 1979, India’s highest honor the Bharat Ratna (“Jewel of India”) in 1980, and being popularly voted the greatet Indian since the country’s independence in 1947 (excluding Gandhi from consideration) by Indian magazine Outlook in 2002. Even Mother Teresa’s book on Words of Love is remarkably similar to the autobiography of St. Therese of Liseux: The Story of a Soul gutenberg.org/etext/16772 Did St. Therese of Liesux or any of her family ever have any idea that the Pope would call her the “greatest saint of modern times” or that she would be the inspiration for Mother Teresa when she lived her life of faith?
Maybe St. Therese of Liseux, who is now in perfect union with Christ, is spending her Heaven doing good on Earth. Imagine, if she is part of God and someone went so far as to name herself after St. Therese of Liseux and go to a foreign country to be a Missionary, that St. Therese of Liseux isn’t sitting up in Heaven helping to form her in the best way possible to accomplish her works.
Maybe also, the extent to which we reach union with Christ is the extent to which we in Heaven are able to have power and glory in serving Christ. So because the purity of St. Therese of Liseux’s intention was so pure and so perfectly/meticulously done, God allowed her the power to do a lot when called upon as an intercessor in Heaven. However, those with less purity of intention and perfect use of free will to conform to the will of Christ have been given less power and glory… going back to the idea of merit **More reason to at times force myself to pray and strive to give up the smallest venial sins!!
**Jesus said, "Amen, I say to you, there is no one who has given up house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands for my sake and for the sake of the gospel who will not receive a hundred times more now in this present age: houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and eternal life in the age to come. But many that are first will be last, and (the) last will be first. Mark 10:30-31
*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *
Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse. Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.
For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world! For the sake of his sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!
O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us!
*Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. *
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anon5216
Guest
On this subject, check out the book “The Cloud of Unknowing”.
There’s also much in Indian spirituality on this subject (adwaita vedanta, and various yogic paths treat this extensively). The “drop of water in the ocean” analogy predates Christianity in Indian spirituality. But I wouldn’t expect loyal Catholics to venture into those areas.
As far as I know, “The Cloud of Unknowing” is in the European tradition and not in any way considered contrary to Catholic Church doctrine.
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Augustine
Guest
Same words, different meanings. To Hindus that means losing your identity, your personhood, into the divine, whereas to us Christians we never cease to be individuals even in union with God.
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anon5216
Guest
My understanding of Hinduism is that a person definitely does not cease to be an individual even in union with God.Same words, different meanings. To Hindus that means losing your identity, your personhood, into the divine, whereas to us Christians we never cease to be individuals even in union with God.
There are plenty of examples of Hindu teachers claiming full union with God while physically living in a human body and expressing themselves with individual identity. (Just like any other religion there is also no shortage of con artist impostors).
They do refer to states of concsiousness called Nirvikalpa Samadhi and Sahaja Samadhi. Nirvikalpa refers to without form. This could be interpreted as no more individual or simply no more material form.
Since Hinduism is not a centrally directed religion like Catholicism, there really is no set of dogmatic definitions covering everything. (At least not universally accepted across all possible sub groups).
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
My understanding of Hinduism, is similar to what you’re saying here.
The main difference of course is we have God revealed to us in Jesus Christ.
Ravi Zacharias has a wonderful book out called, “Jesus Among Other Gods.”
Having been raised in India in a Hindu Family, he eventually converted to Christianity, and made a career of studying religion.
He teaches comparative religion at a university, but which one doesn’t come to mind at the moment.
Anyway, in the book, he gives a good account of Hindu, Buddhism Muslim beliefs, and compares the founders of these religions, to that of Jesus.
The bottom line, there is no comparison. While all these founders had to find the paths and ways they followed, Jesus did not. Jesus without question told us that He is the way, He is the truth and He is the light and that no one goes to the father, except through Him.
Now, to me that does not mean that Hindus, Muslims and Buddhist, won’t make it to heaven, but rather, the fact that they do, is because of Jesus Christ.
Jim
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anon5216
Guest
One convert out of millions and millions doesn’t constitute proof any more than my leaving the religion of my birth (Catholicism) to find that the spirituality of India is far beyond Catholicism is proof of anything other than that’s the appropriate spiritual path for me.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Its not an attempt to prove anything, only to show the supporting evidence, of who Jesus is and this is the faith that we Catholics have.
The Buddha, had to find the way. Jesus taught, “I am the way.”
Same is true with Lao Tzu, Mohamed and the mystics of Hinduism. While they had to search for the truth, Jesus taught, “I am the truth.”
Also, none of the others came to save the human race, nor did they claim this as their mission. Jesus on the other hand, said, he came to die in order to save us all.
There is much truth in Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism. Many people benefit from these religions. However, they are religions.
Jesus however, is God and He is the source of true faith.
But for us, Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, He is who He said He is, the "I AM,"i.e. God.
He is whom we follow and the only one we desire to follow. Our faith comes from Him.
Jim
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JohnVIII
Guest
I’ve always thought that it was St. Athanasius who said “God became man, so that man might become God”, not St. Augustine!
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Maybe it was both, being its Catholic teaching, but I read it from St. Augustine. in the Office of the Readings from the Liturgy of the Hours for that day.I’ve always thought that it was St. Athanasius who said “God became man, so that man might become God”, not St. Augustine!
Jim
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Eucharisted
Guest
The Catechism of the Catholic Church
I. WHY DID THE WORD BECOME FLESH?
456 With the Nicene Creed, we answer by confessing: “For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven; by the power of the Holy Spirit, he became incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and was made man.”
457 The Word became flesh for us in order to save us by reconciling us with God, who “loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins”: “the Father has sent his Son as the Saviour of the world”, and “he was revealed to take away sins”:70
Sick, our nature demanded to be healed; fallen, to be raised up; dead, to rise again. We had lost the possession of the good; it was necessary for it to be given back to us. Closed in the darkness, it was necessary to bring us the light; captives, we awaited a Saviour; prisoners, help; slaves, a liberator. Are these things minor or insignificant? Did they not move God to descend to human nature and visit it, since humanity was in so miserable and unhappy a state?71
458 The Word became flesh so that thus we might know God’s love: "In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him."72 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."73
459 The Word became flesh to be our model of holiness: “Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me.” "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me."74 On the mountain of the Transfiguration, the Father commands: "Listen to him!"75 Jesus is the model for the Beatitudes and the norm of the new law: "Love one another as I have loved you."76 This love implies an effective offering of oneself, after his example.77
460 The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:78 "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."79 "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."80 "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."81
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Augustine
Guest
Good post.
The Orthodox Church teaches this explicitly in saying that even if there hadn’t been the fall, Jesus would still come, I suppose in a single “installment”, in order that we could partake of His divine nature as sons of God.
The Orthodox Church teaches this explicitly in saying that even if there hadn’t been the fall, Jesus would still come, I suppose in a single “installment”, in order that we could partake of His divine nature as sons of God.
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