Man tried to force girlfriend at gunpoint to have abortion, police say

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markomalley

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I understand that this is not all that unusual a circumstance.

The Columbus Dispatch reports:

A Near East Side man pointed a gun at a pregnant woman and forced her to a health clinic this morning after she refused to go through with a scheduled abortion, Columbus police say.

(In my opinion) I guess this qualifies as reason #28951 why abortions should not be available. When it’s an option, there are those (of both sexes) who are going to want to take that option. It’s a factor of the cultural change with this being an acceptable and available option. (Of course the best option would have been if they’d just have kept it zipped)
 
Talk about the changing culture. It’s a crime to point a gun, but not when you rip apart a child from the womb.
 
In this case, sterilization for this “man” sounds reaonable. How is that 4 year old boy going to feel when he is older and realizes that his father tried to get his mother to kill his little brother and sister? So very sad.
 
The crimes were actually kidnapping and carrying a concealed weapon. The man was not arrested for anything else, including undue force. Would responders to this news piece be so incensed if this man had pointed a gun at the woman and “forced” her to go shoplifting? I doubt it.

Sharen says sterilization for this man sounds “reasonable”. Yet the crimes for which he has been arrested were not those involving his gonads. They were crimes of physical and psychological violence, not sex crimes. Sterilization would solve nothing, except perhaps to satisfy Sharen’s need for retribution, which is unChristian.

markomalley says he believes this kind of behavior is not an unusual circumstance. Where did he get this impression?

tammy57
 
markomalley said:
I understand that this is not all that unusual a circumstance.
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Really!? Is it really your understanding that gaggles of would-be fathers are marching pregnant women to abortion clinics?

From where did you come by that belief?

Pax,
OA
 
Orleans_Attny said:
Really!? Is it really your understanding that gaggles of would-be fathers are marching pregnant women to abortion clinics?

From where did you come by that belief?

Pax,
OA
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A) Not gaggles. But yes, it is my understanding that many women are pressured to abort their babies. And violent means are not unheard of, though admittedly far less common.

B) I have not seen any empirical studies on the subject; my belief is based on scanning news stories over time (in re: the more violent means) and from conversations with some professionals where the subject has come up.
 
markomalley said:
A) Not gaggles. But yes, it is my understanding that many women are pressured to abort their babies. And violent means are not unheard of, though admittedly far less common.

B) I have not seen any empirical studies on the subject; my belief is based on scanning news stories over time (in re: the more violent means) and from conversations with some professionals where the subject has come up.
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I would say alot of men pressure women to abort. Obviously … not all men.

I just posted for prayer for a woman who went to Planned Parenthood and left… only to return again and abort. She told the pro life counselors outside that her whole family wanted her to abort… her boyfriend too.
She ended up killing her unborn child.
 
Tammy,
I referred to sterilization (which as a Catholic I don’t actually support) because the man has several other children and continues to reproduce recklessly, and who according to the article tried to force the mother of one of his children to kill that child. I don’t understand your analogy, shoplifting vs forcing someone to abort their baby.
 
Orleans_Attny said:
Really!? Is it really your understanding that gaggles of would-be fathers are marching pregnant women to abortion clinics?

From where did you come by that belief?

Pax,
OA
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It’s not necessarily the same thing, but a leading cause of death among pregnant women is homicide. There are lots of cases where women are abused, threatened, beaten, and killed while they are pregnant. Often this comes from the father of the child trying to kill the baby or a form of pressure to get the woman to do it.
 
tammy57 said:
Would responders to this news piece be so incensed if this man had pointed a gun at the woman and “forced” her to go shoplifting? I doubt it.
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You’re comparing murder to petty theft? Really?
 
“In this case, sterilization for this “man” sounds reasonable.” ~ Sharen

This reads like an endorsement for the procedure of sterilization. If this is not what you intended to imply, why then did you say it?

“You’re comparing murder to petty theft? Really?” ~ thirdworld

I am comparing the “newsworthiness” of the drama as it appeared in the Columbus Dispatch with the extremely remote possibility that any news report detailing a man threatening a woman with a gun to go shoplifting would ever appear in any newspaper. It would be of no interest to most readers. But the spectacle of “forced” abortion is a magnet for pro-life individuals, crime hounds, even those seeking vicarious excitement or disturbance. That’s good for sales in an era when newspapers are struggling.

tammy57
 
tammy57 said:
“You’re comparing murder to petty theft? Really?”* ~ thirdworld

I am comparing the “newsworthiness” of the drama as it appeared in the Columbus Dispatch with the extremely remote possibility that any news report detailing a man threatening a woman with a gun to go shoplifting would ever appear in any newspaper. It would be of no interest to most readers. But the spectacle of “forced” abortion is a magnet for pro-life individuals, crime hounds, even those seeking vicarious excitement or disturbance. That’s good for sales in an era when newspapers are struggling.

tammy57

First of all this is not even the news forum, but rather the social justice forum. And women getting forced to have abortions seems like a social justice issue, no? It seems like a direct attack on a woman’s autonomy.

Second, a forced abortion seems like it is very newsworthy. Consider, in some states if the man had stabbed the woman’s belly he could have been changed with murder. Would not forcing a woman to have an abortion be equal to forcing someone to shot someone else. If this happened I would predict it would be all over the news.

Third, from all directions we are told abortion is the woman’s choice, its her body, nobody else can make those decisions for her. And yet in reality, this is hardly ever the case. Many women are pressured or coerced by spouses, parents, boyfriends, friends, and society to have abortions. Some of these women are coerced with more than just words or getting kicked out of their parents home, but with actual physical violence, and still others lose their very lives over not making the choice that others wanted them to make.
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am comparing the “newsworthiness” of the drama as it appeared in the Columbus Dispatch with the extremely remote possibility that any news report detailing a man threatening a woman with a gun to go shoplifting would ever appear in any newspaper. It would be of no interest to most readers. But the spectacle of “forced” abortion is a magnet for pro-life individuals, crime hounds, even those seeking vicarious excitement or disturbance. That’s good for sales in an era when newspapers are struggling.
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How is it of no interest to most readers? The abortion debate is very heated and often takes center stage in America. I think both pro choice and pro life people would be interested in this story.
 
thirdworld said:
How is it of no interest to most readers? The abortion debate is very heated and often takes center stage in America. I think both pro choice and pro life people would be interested in this story.
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You have misunderstood what I very clearly posted. Read it again:

" … a man threatening a woman with a gun* to go shoplifting** would [n]ever appear in any newspaper. It would be of no interest to most readers."*

I further conceded that the referenced story, as written, was a “magnet” for pro-life individuals, underscoring your point instead of dismissing it.

tammy57
 
jilly4ski said:
First of all this is not even the news forum, but rather the social justice forum. And women getting forced to have abortions seems like a social justice issue, no? It seems like a direct attack on a woman’s autonomy.

Second, a forced abortion seems like it is very newsworthy. Consider, in some states if the man had stabbed the woman’s belly he could have been changed with murder. Would not forcing a woman to have an abortion be equal to forcing someone to shot someone else. If this happened I would predict it would be all over the news.

Third, from all directions we are told abortion is the woman’s choice, its her body, nobody else can make those decisions for her. And yet in reality, this is hardly ever the case. Many women are pressured or coerced by spouses, parents, boyfriends, friends, and society to have abortions. Some of these women are coerced with more than just words or getting kicked out of their parents home, but with actual physical violence, and still others lose their very lives over not making the choice that others wanted them to make.
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Please read my response to thirdworld for my answer to you regarding the newsworthiness of the story mentioned. You, also, misread my post.

News links are posted throughout this forum in all different places all the time. They are vehicles with which posters introduce topics for discussion. No big deal. The man who threatened the woman with the firearm did not succeed in persuading her to have the abortion, so to my mind it’s a moot point, a dead story, a little footnote; however, I can see how others would latch onto it as if it proved that wanton sexual activity always ends in horror and degradation, or some such. Yes, a woman might lose her life over refusing to “obey” the BabyDaddy’s wishes that she abort her pregnancy. The bad decisions were made when she failed to judge his character when he had his clothes on. Why was she unable to do so? Did she have no reference? Did no one ever tell her about male hardwiring and the fact that they will say and do just about anything to have sex? Why did no one ever tell her that? Was her mother too afraid or ashamed to talk with her about sex? Did she not have the correct information regarding sexual activity and reproduction? It goes back, back, back, until no one is willing to accept responsibility for her judgmental deficiency. She could have educated herself. Why did she not do that? What weakness put her in a position to create unwanted, undesired, unplanned life? Culture? Religion? No religion? Peer pressure?

I get really sick of this stuff, everybody clustered around the finish line, wringing their hands over the fetus, when the problem started with the Fall in the Garden. Time to start over, folks. Catholic Up! Tell your kids the truth, the whole truth, about their bodies, their minds, their spirits. Quit shrinking away from your responsibilities. Do the right thing before the kids become teenagers. By then it’s too late.

tammy57
 
It goes back, back, back, until no one is willing to accept responsibility for her judgmental deficiency. She could have educated herself. Why did she not do that? What weakness put her in a position to create unwanted, undesired, unplanned life? Culture? Religion? No religion? Peer pressure?
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So you are trying to say that it is somehow her fault that she was kidnapped by gun point by her…(fill in the blank) it was her live in partner, but what if it had been her husband?)?

Yes she made the decision to have sex, and then when it resulted in a pregnancy she decided to keep the baby. How does this make him kidnapping her and trying to force her to have an abortion any less reprehensible. If he didn’t want to care for a child maybe he shouldn’t have had sex. I am not sure how we can blame either party for the “unwanted” pregnancy more than the other, since they both supposedly consented. I put quotes around “unwanted” because she apparently wanted the baby, because she refused to go through with the abortion.

And no I did not misread your post, you implied that this is a non issue because the end act was not actually completed. Not only that but you implied that without “crazy people” like “crime hounds” or “those seeking vicarious excitement or disturbance” this type of news would not appear in the papers. Thirdworld is correct, this is newsworthy for most people, not just these fringe groups.

If you don’t like it, don’t read it, you have a choice too. :rolleyes:
 
jilly4ski said:
So you are trying to say that it is somehow her fault that she was kidnapped by gun point by her…(fill in the blank) it was her live in partner, but what if it had been her husband?)?

Yes she made the decision to have sex, and then when it resulted in a pregnancy she decided to keep the baby. How does this make him kidnapping her and trying to force her to have an abortion any less reprehensible. If he didn’t want to care for a child maybe he shouldn’t have had sex. I am not sure how we can blame either party for the “unwanted” pregnancy more than the other, since they both supposedly consented. I put quotes around “unwanted” because she apparently wanted the baby, because she refused to go through with the abortion.

And no I did not misread your post, you implied that this is a non issue because the end act was not actually completed. Not only that but you implied that without “crazy people” like “crime hounds” or “those seeking vicarious excitement or disturbance” this type of news would not appear in the papers. Thirdworld is correct, this is newsworthy for most people, not just these fringe groups.

If you don’t like it, don’t read it, you have a choice too. :rolleyes:
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What if it HAD been her husband? It would have made absolutely no difference. The offense would be the same. His actions were reprehensible, yes, and he is equally culpable in the creation of life. This was an “unwanted” pregnancy as far as he was concerned, so if he is equally responsible, then quotation marks surrounding the word are unnecessary.

I did not imply that the story was a non-issue. My point was that it was dug out of the files and assigned Page One importance when it truly is a B Section piece. Now if the man had shot the woman or anyone else, that would have made it a more significant report.

It is important to you because, as a pro-life advocate, you seem willing to cleave to any story that will support your position. This particular story feels to me like one that is filling in until the real thing comes along. Big cities across the nation are absolutely filled with wannabe gangsters who let firearms do their talking because they’re too stupid to make a point verbally. The feeling I get from this story is more one of disgust with that culture than one of shock that this moron used a gun to try to persuade the woman to abort.

Happily for the mother, the fetus, and everyone on this forum, no real and lasting harm was done. I will stay tuned, however, to see whether or not she keeps this man in her life and falls into the same life-creating trap with him that she has twice before.

tammy57
 
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