Management Training of Seminarians?

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I’m 25 years old, and to be honest, I am amazed at priests just a few years older than me who are in charge of large parishes–not only the people who form the congregation, but the physical structure that enables worship. What kind of managerial training do seminarians receive to prepare them for the big duty of financially maintaining a parish church?
 
I’m 25 years old, and to be honest, I am amazed at priests just a few years older than me who are in charge of large parishes–not only the people who form the congregation, but the physical structure that enables worship. What kind of managerial training do seminarians receive to prepare them for the big duty of financially maintaining a parish church?
None that I know of. It’'s more of “on the job” training.
 
It probably ought to be part of their education, but too often isn’t.

When I was in minor seminary, it was noted that at the college seminary level one was expected to get a degree in the liberal arts (with the requisite philosophy focus) and that things such as business concentrated studies were basically out of the question as far as an option for majoring in. I found this foolish. For not only are there business minded men who might well be called to the priesthood (in fact, second career vocations with such backgrounds are often highly praised for the special worthiness of their minds, skills, background, sacrifice, and vocations), but we NEED (at least some) men in the presbyterate who can understand such operations and manage the resources of the Church well. To basically banish them too soon (while leaving the Church totally in the hands of men who may not be well suited for handling such matters wisely) is foolish.
 
That, and a few other “deficits” I saw in seminary training, will be covered in the curriculum of Cloister Outreach’s proposed in-house seminary. It will be under the patronage of St. John Eudes.

cloisters.tripod.com/eudes/

Blessings,
Cloisters
 
I know it may sound weird and/or old fashioned, but does anyone
remember that with every vocation that God gives, He also gives
the graces necessary to carry it out…? But, I do agree that up-
dating formation is needed. We also need to GO BACK to some
of the fundamentals that seem to have been dropped over the
last 30-40 years.
 
Grace builds upon nature. This is an old pre-Vatican II note of wisdom. If you are concerned about the lack of business training, then I am horrified by it. No. There is no business training which means that we are entrusting the business decisions of the parish to rank amateurs assuming that “God will provide.” We used to call this attitude “tempting God” and it is a serious sin.
If you think God is calling you to become a priest, you could begin by getting a degree in business and human resource management. Then, with that under your belt, apply to seminary. Alternatively, you could get the seminary training behind you and when placed as a pastor, put the management of the business affairs in the hands of the parish council and a qualified, paid business manager. The second route is how I personally would handle the problem. Suffice it to say that the consistent lack of business training indicates an unvoiced conviction on the part of the episcopate that the laity are responsible for the day to day business of parish administration. A priest is a spiritual leader, not a business man.

Matthew
 
Alternatively, you could get the seminary training behind you and when placed as a pastor, put the management of the business affairs in the hands of the parish council and a qualified, paid business manager.
The risk of this is that then there is the possibility of rivalries about priorities and control, split allegiances, power trips, and decisions being made for reasons that are more “strict business” rather than pastorally oriented. It is also too easy for a pastor to give up too much and lose control of matters because he feels that this is not a burden he desires or something he sufficiently understands. Parish finance councils are mandated by canon law (reasonably so) and a qualified business manager can be an asset to a pastor if he is employed as an aide to accomplish things more astutely while freeing the pastor from undue administrative concerns. However, the pastor is still the man in charge and must not remove himself too seriously from such matters, lest he sacrifice leadership.
Suffice it to say that the consistent lack of business training indicates an unvoiced conviction on the part of the episcopate that the laity are responsible for the day to day business of parish administration.
I’d disagree with that. In the day that most of today’s bishops came up, the pastor and priests WAS the parish. Everything revolved around the man at the top, who was trusted by parishioners as practically God Himself. The difference is that there may have been other priests who could assist or it was easy enough to have a lay accountant assist a pastor in need, while the youngins grew in understanding from older mentor priests as to how things worked and what needed to be done. Nowadays, a man may be thrown into the pastorate quickly (for need of priests) before having an opportunity to attain such skills. When you were a priest for 25 - 30 years first and learned the ropes “on the job” it wasn’t such a hefty concern. When you’re tossed right into the fray and never had much experience with such things, you may find yourself overwhelmed.

So I would say that this is an issue that the episcopate has merely ignored for lack of experience or understanding of what to do in order to better prepare a man for the rigors of running a parish in the contemporary climate.
A priest is a spiritual leader, not a business man.
A priest is a minister to the human family of persons. And finances are part of everyday life. If a priest has no solid experiences with basic business principles for operating his own household or parish, how is he to lead those under his charge in such concerns? Yes, his life is based more on the spiritual than mere secular business matters. But to leave him formationally absent in this significant area is a serious concern which should be better addressed.
 
Chicago,
Your third paragraph indicates that you think this a case of the blind leading the blind. And we all know what the scriptures say about that.
If you don’t have the training, at least have the common sense to hire someone who does. Hasselblad had no training in engineering but he wanted to start a high tech manufacturing operation to make cameras after WW II. He knew that the success of his company would depend on expertise he didn’t have. He simply hired the best engineering talent he could find and as a result you will find Hasselblad cameras in the hands of professional photographers the world over. The technique works and a wise pastor will avail himself of the talents of his flock.
I know my own limitations, and as I said above if placed in such a position that is the solution I would follow.

Matthew

PS I find the thought that the bishops have ignored this for 1900 years is ample evidence that they don’t think priests should be business men. If business training is not part of seminary curriculum in the 21st century, it is not deemed important to the ministry of a priest.
 
If you don’t have the training, at least have the common sense to hire someone who does. Hasselblad had no training in engineering but he wanted to start a high tech manufacturing operation to make cameras after WW II. He knew that the success of his company would depend on expertise he didn’t have. He simply hired the best engineering talent he could find and as a result you will find Hasselblad cameras in the hands of professional photographers the world over. The technique works and a wise pastor will avail himself of the talents of his flock.

I know my own limitations, and as I said above if placed in such a position that is the solution I would follow.
We do not disagree that it would be wise for pastors to avail themselves of the expertise of others within the community to assist them in fulfilling their own ministry. But, even then, one must make sure not to give over decision making to the alleged “experts” in a sacrifice of responsibility (as was sometimes the case in accepting the advice of psychologists’ opinions about sexual abusers, for example.) You have stated, “A priest is a spiritual leader, not a business man.” True enough. Which means that he must ensure that the parish is being operated as a spiritual institute rather than merely upon a business model.
PS I find the thought that the bishops have ignored this for 1900 years is ample evidence that they don’t think priests should be business men. If business training is not part of seminary curriculum in the 21st century, it is not deemed important to the ministry of a priest.
I would argue that the cultural environment has changed from previous eras, which mandates a development in response. This is all which lacks. Furthermore, it is obvious that the Church has long dealt with issues of property and income management. This has never been ignored by the episcopate. Indeed, it has sometimes been abused. It isn’t like there have not been issues about this sort of thing for much of the 2000 year history of the Church. Shoot, it was even an issue with Judas stealing from the treasury during the life of Christ!
 
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