Managing Despair and a Household at the Same Time

[Xantippe]

Cat said:

“I am concerned that you are being drastically UNDER-treated for a very serious condition.”

Yeah. There are all different levels of seriousness of psychological/psychiatric help, and your therapist sounds like she may be outgunned by your situation.

Pensmama87 said:

“I know I’m not supposed to think he does this stuff on purpose, but c’mon, really? Really?”

I think he probably doesn’t know. Unfortunately, it’s going to take a lot out of you to train him, so I’m not sure you’re up to it right now. I like the check list idea.

I have a true story for you that I heard from a friend this week.

My friend is an SAHM with a disabled 5-year-old and an infant. She has been really struggling with keeping up with her house but her husband has resolutely resisted the suggestion of getting her some cleaning help. His mom worked and managed everything just fine–why does she need help?

Fast forward a bit. My friend has finally gotten some cheap cleaning help. One day, her husband sees her sweeping up the mess under the baby’s high chair. “Don’t we have a cleaning lady?” he asked. Let me unpack that for you. This man, who is in his late 30s, super smart and trained at one of the country’s finest universities, did not understand that you can’t just feed a baby 6 times a day in their high chair and expect that bimonthly cleaning lady visits will leave you with a clean house in between. He seriously thought that when my friend was asking for cleaning help, that the cleaning lady would be doing 100% of the cleaning necessary to keep their household functional and hygienic at all times. No wonder he thought it was an outrageous idea.

And the funny thing is, I think I may have had that exact conversation (Don’t we have a cleaning lady?) with my husband some years ago. He didn’t at the time understand that you need to clean between visits or you’ll wind up living in a landfill. I’m happy to report that he actually does get it now, so it is possible for guys to learn.

You may find that $100 worth of professional cleaning would be a really good investment, especially right now, even just as a one-off. That may sound like a lot, but think about how expensive your medical care is, and think about what a drop in the bucket $100 is in that context. Plus, you’ll find it easier to keep going when you get to start with a clean house. You might want to ask for that for Valentine’s Day, Mother’s Day, your birthday, Christmas, Arbor Day, Flag Day, Groundhog Day, etc. As I recall, your husband needs some pointers with gift-giving.

Best wishes!

 

[Xantippe]

If you have the strength for it, you might want to enforce a rule of eating being restricted to the kitchen or dining room (except for responsible adults who can and do clean up after themselves).

 

[pensmama87]

Cat said:

“I am concerned that you are being drastically UNDER-treated for a very serious condition.”

Yeah. There are all different levels of seriousness of psychological/psychiatric help, and your therapist sounds like she may be outgunned by your situation.

I think that’s why she suggested the psychiatric facility I’m visiting next week. But when I called for an evaluation, the next available appointment was a month away, so I’m in survival mode until then. She’s very practiced with addiction and addictive behaviors, including OCD, although she isn’t a psychiatrist, that’s true. I was really appreciative that she suggested that it might be something I needed. She’s not trying to manage me all by herself.

I am not currently on medication. I plan on asking about that next week.

I think he probably doesn’t know. Unfortunately, it’s going to take a lot out of you to train him, so I’m not sure you’re up to it right now. I like the check list idea.

I have a true story for you that I heard from a friend this week.

My friend is an SAHM with a disabled 5-year-old and an infant. She has been really struggling with keeping up with her house but her husband has resolutely resisted the suggestion of getting her some cleaning help. His mom worked and managed everything just fine–why does she need help?

Fast forward a bit. My friend has finally gotten some cheap cleaning help. One day, her husband sees her sweeping up the mess under the baby’s high chair. “Don’t we have a cleaning lady?” he asked. Let me unpack that for you. This man, who is in his late 30s, super smart and trained at one of the country’s finest universities, did not understand that you can’t just feed a baby 6 times a day in their high chair and expect that bimonthly cleaning lady visits will leave you with a clean house in between. He seriously thought that when my friend was asking for cleaning help, that the cleaning lady would be doing 100% of the cleaning necessary to keep their household functional and hygienic at all times. No wonder he thought it was an outrageous idea.

And the funny thing is, I think I may have had that exact conversation (Don’t we have a cleaning lady?) with my husband some years ago. He didn’t at the time understand that you need to clean between visits or you’ll wind up living in a landfill. I’m happy to report that he actually does get it now, so it is possible for guys to learn.

You may find that $100 worth of professional cleaning would be a really good investment, especially right now, even just as a one-off. That may sound like a lot, but think about how expensive your medical care is, and think about what a drop in the bucket $100 is in that context. Plus, you’ll find it easier to keep going when you get to start with a clean house. You might want to ask for that for Valentine’s Day, Mother’s Day, your birthday, Christmas, Arbor Day, Flag Day, Groundhog Day, etc. As I recall, your husband needs some pointers with gift-giving.

Best wishes!

The thing is, he doesn’t do things I know for a fact he had to do in his house growing up (clearing his own dishes is the big one.) So they shouldn’t be so foreign to him. I tried the list idea a while back and it backfired big time. His response was, first, that it was insulting that I tried to tell him he didn’t know how to do something, and then when I pointed out that those things weren’t happening when he agreed to do some chore, he said that I must not think they’re that important, because if I did, I’d do them myself.

So what would a housekeeper do? I really have no idea. It’s the daily stuff I’d have to do anyway that is wearing me out.

(And actually, I am really lucky in one way that I should have to pay nothing for my medical care directly - just the incidentals like parking and gas. My husband works in public sector so his salary is not great, but benefits are very good. If we had to pay anything more for my care, we couldn’t afford to get it. Well, unless my husband had to give up cable, but you all know how that discussion goes down.)

 

[Xantippe]

Pensmama87 said:

“I am not currently on medication. I plan on asking about that next week.”

Very good.

“The thing is, he doesn’t do things I know for a fact he had to do in his house growing up (clearing his own dishes is the big one.)”

Wow.

This is tough, because you’ve got so many different issues (eating disorder, depression, toddler and infant, weird relationship with husband) that would each be a pretty big deal just in isolation. I hesitate to tell you to do anything about your husband’s behavior at this point, because you probably don’t have the strength for it at the moment and there are obviously much more pressing problems, but you’re eventually going to have to normalize your situation with your husband and educate him as to what basic household maintenance requires.

“His response was, first, that it was insulting that I tried to tell him he didn’t know how to do something, and then when I pointed out that those things weren’t happening when he agreed to do some chore, he said that I must not think they’re that important, because if I did, I’d do them myself.”

Gah.

“So what would a housekeeper do? I really have no idea. It’s the daily stuff I’d have to do anyway that is wearing me out.”

–clean kitchen
–clean bathrooms
–dust blinds
–dusting
–pick up toys
–general straightening
–mop tile
–vacuum carpet
–baseboards
–cobweb removal

Some cleaners will change sheets if you set out the stuff for them or load the dishwasher if it’s emptied.

I don’t know if that would be helpful to you, but for me at least, there’s a difference between a messy house that I know is basically clean because we had cleaners a week ago and that I know is going to be clean again in a week and a mess that is sitting on top of layers of grime that who knows when anybody’s going to get around to (i.e. your basement play area).

The problem is that cleaners generally charge substantially more for a first visit, so the dollar amount may cause your husband to choke.

Best wishes!

 

[Cat]

I think that’s why she suggested the psychiatric facility I’m visiting next week. But when I called for an evaluation, the next available appointment was a month away, so I’m in survival mode until then. She’s very practiced with addiction and addictive behaviors, including OCD, although she isn’t a psychiatrist, that’s true. I was really appreciative that she suggested that it might be something I needed. She’s not trying to manage me all by herself.

That happened to my husband, too. There just aren’t enough hours for psychiatrists to take on all the patients they need to see. So frustrating.

I am not currently on medication. I plan on asking about that next week.

Good. I hope it’s helpful.

The thing is, he doesn’t do things I know for a fact he had to do in his house growing up (clearing his own dishes is the big one.) So they shouldn’t be so foreign to him. I tried the list idea a while back and it backfired big time. His response was, first, that it was insulting that I tried to tell him he didn’t know how to do something, and then when I pointed out that those things weren’t happening when he agreed to do some chore, he said that I must not think they’re that important, because if I did, I’d do them myself.

Possibly some joint counselling might be a good plan? Sounds like your husband isn’t coping well, either. Both of you might really benefit from having someone neutral sit down and defuse all the pent-up emotions and the power struggles and the tears and feelings of despair and accusations, and help you to just get down to the nitty gritty and get going on mapping out a basic non-accusatory action plan for getting all the work of a marriage and parenting done!

So what would a housekeeper do? I really have no idea. It’s the daily stuff I’d have to do anyway that is wearing me out.

I don’t think a housekeeper would help, and it’s just one more stressor. Bringing someone into your house is stressful, because you have to dress and act a certain “polite” way, and when your child poops in their pants or when you burn something that you are cooking, you have to react in a certain “civilized” way–do you see what I’m getting at?

However, if you have big jobs that need to be done, a housecleaning service is great. After my surgery, I had a housecleaning service come in once every few weeks and give our bathroom a thorough cleaning. Bathrooms really get gross and that can be unhealthy. Bathroom cleaning is hard work. Pay someone else to do it if you can afford
it. The housekeeping people use products that make the whole bathroom sparkle.

(And actually, I am really lucky in one way that I should have to pay nothing for my medical care directly - just the incidentals like parking and gas. My husband works in public sector so his salary is not great, but benefits are very good. If we had to pay anything more for my care, we couldn’t afford to get it. Well, unless my husband had to give up cable, but you all know how that discussion goes down.)

You and he will work it all out. It just takes time. I think when your treatments for depression and anxiety start kicking in and you feel more in control, everything will look and feel better. Don’t give up!

 

[Xantippe]

Cat said:

“I don’t think a housekeeper would help, and it’s just one more stressor. Bringing someone into your house is stressful, because you have to dress and act a certain “polite” way, and when your child poops in their pants or when you burn something that you are cooking, you have to react in a certain “civilized” way–do you see what I’m getting at?”

I think when pensmama87 said “housekeeper” she was thinking cleaner (who comes in once in a while to do a couple hours of heavy cleaning) and you were thinking “housekeeper” as in full-time help (which I agree would be more trouble than it’s worth–as well as unnecessary and impossible to persuade her husband of the need for). I think even just monthly heavy cleaning would be very helpful.

Am I understanding everybody correctly?

Best wishes!

 

[pensmama87]

Cat said:

“I don’t think a housekeeper would help, and it’s just one more stressor. Bringing someone into your house is stressful, because you have to dress and act a certain “polite” way, and when your child poops in their pants or when you burn something that you are cooking, you have to react in a certain “civilized” way–do you see what I’m getting at?”

I think when pensmama87 said “housekeeper” she was thinking cleaner (who comes in once in a while to do a couple hours of heavy cleaning) and you were thinking “housekeeper” as in full-time help (which I agree would be more trouble than it’s worth–as well as unnecessary and impossible to persuade her husband of the need for). I think even just monthly heavy cleaning would be very helpful.

Am I understanding everybody correctly?

Best wishes!

That’s more what I meant, yes. I don’t know anybody who’s ever had someone come clean their house (at least that I know of.) We get ads for it all the time in the mail though…maybe it’s time I start looking for a coupon…

It’s just always seemed to me to be the kind of thing that “super rich” people do, or a temporary thing when moving.

 

[Xantippe]

Pensmama87 said:

“It’s just always seemed to me to be the kind of thing that “super rich” people do, or a temporary thing when moving.”

Nah–bear in mind that a lot of people that have help don’t advertise it.

I started with monthly cleaning help when my oldest was born and then went to twice a month when my oldest was 1 and we were living rent-free on campus in residence and doing students events every week in our home. Looking back, it was kind of a financially crazy thing to do that first year (after subtracting out rent, insurance, and taxes I think we had about $800 a month to pay for food, utilities, transportation, clothes and incidentals for the three of us), but it was a huge weight off my mind and it eventually made more financial sense.

In real life, I try to be very open about the fact that I have help (both professional and my husband and the big kids), because I don’t want any of my stressed out friends with little kids to be thinking, “Xantippe’s got 3 kids and her house looks way nicer than my house!” because I’m not doing this by myself.

 

[pensmama87]

Pensmama87 said:

“It’s just always seemed to me to be the kind of thing that “super rich” people do, or a temporary thing when moving.”

Nah–bear in mind that a lot of people that have help don’t advertise it.

I started with monthly cleaning help when my oldest was born and then went to twice a month when my oldest was 1 and we were living rent-free on campus in residence and doing students events every week in our home. Looking back, it was kind of a financially crazy thing to do that first year (after subtracting out rent, insurance, and taxes I think we had about $800 a month to pay for food, utilities, transportation, clothes and incidentals for the three of us), but it was a huge weight off my mind and it eventually made more financial sense.

In real life, I try to be very open about the fact that I have help (both professional and my husband and the big kids), because I don’t want any of my stressed out friends with little kids to be thinking, “Xantippe’s got 3 kids and her house looks way nicer than my house!” because I’m not doing this by myself.

I think if we are ever blessed enough to have another child (which I think considering our circumstances is going to be a long way off), my list of “baby gifts” is probably all going to be services of some kind. Laundry, cleaning, meals. I have tons of baby clothes, toys, and other “stuff” that is in very good shape. I felt a lot better after the birth of my second than my first, but I still wayyyyy overdid things. I want to be in a space where I can just enjoy my children and focus on being their mom, instead of freaking out over how much of that dust bunny the baby just put in his mouth.

My evaluation was scheduled for this afternoon. I had my directions, my info, questions all laid out. Managed to get a shower, had the diaper bag ready (was going to meet my husband so he could stay at work a bit longer, then he would take the kids home). Then they called to say the clinician was sick and it got postponed until next week. Argh… I know it’s not her fault, it’s that time of year, stuff goes around, but I was SO READY for this to happen today, and now I have to wait again.

The good thing is that now we’re going to drive over there this weekend to do a kind of “test run,” so I can see exactly where the parking garage is, what facility entrance I need to go in, etc. Those are the kinds of things that can cause me a lot of anxiety, so being able to picture it will be an enormous help.

In general though, I am feeling a bit better. I definitely started the thread during one of my “darkest” times. I rarely go through more than a few days at a time like that, but still, I’d like those occurrences to get further and further apart rather than happening more often.

Prayers are still appreciated…and thanks so much for all the advice, everyone!

 

[UbiCaritas]

I think if we are ever blessed enough to have another child (which I think considering our circumstances is going to be a long way off), my list of “baby gifts” is probably all going to be services of some kind. Laundry, cleaning, meals. I have tons of baby clothes, toys, and other “stuff” that is in very good shape. I felt a lot better after the birth of my second than my first, but I still wayyyyy overdid things. I want to be in a space where I can just enjoy my children and focus on being their mom, instead of freaking out over how much of that dust bunny the baby just put in his mouth.

My evaluation was scheduled for this afternoon. I had my directions, my info, questions all laid out. Managed to get a shower, had the diaper bag ready (was going to meet my husband so he could stay at work a bit longer, then he would take the kids home). Then they called to say the clinician was sick and it got postponed until next week. Argh… I know it’s not her fault, it’s that time of year, stuff goes around, but I was SO READY for this to happen today, and now I have to wait again.

The good thing is that now we’re going to drive over there this weekend to do a kind of “test run,” so I can see exactly where the parking garage is, what facility entrance I need to go in, etc. Those are the kinds of things that can cause me a lot of anxiety, so being able to picture it will be an enormous help.

In general though, I am feeling a bit better. I definitely started the thread during one of my “darkest” times. I rarely go through more than a few days at a time like that, but still, I’d like those occurrences to get further and further apart rather than happening more often.

Prayers are still appreciated…and thanks so much for all the advice, everyone!

Oh, MAN, how frustrating! The only thing I can say is that at least she didn’t come to the evaluation and infect you with something you could then pass on to hubby and the kids. Talk about the last thing you need right now.

I’m glad you’re feeling better, and your plan about doing a test run sounds fantastic! Back when I was in college, I had to audition for various groups and schools. Auditions caused horrendous anxiety anyway, and going somewhere unfamiliar made it ten times worse. Doing those kind of test runs really did save my sanity in some situations.

Also, I like your idea about asking for services with the next baby. In fact, I like it so much I’ve made a mental note for a kid or two down the road.

 

[CathLifeHacker]

I know I’m not supposed to think he does this stuff on purpose, but c’mon, really? Really?

As the famous psychiatrist Dr. Abraham Low used to say,

“People do things THAT irritate you, not necessarily TO irritate you.”

If you repeat this axiom when you feel yourself starting to get mad, it will help you a lot. As Christians we should always “make excuses” for others and be strict with ourselves.

 

[pensmama87]

As the famous psychiatrist Dr. Abraham Low used to say,

“People do things THAT irritate you, not necessarily TO irritate you.”

If you repeat this axiom when you feel yourself starting to get mad, it will help you a lot. As Christians we should always “make excuses” for others and be strict with ourselves.

Hello! I see that you are new to CAF and welcome!

I am glad that I am in a mental place right now to read the bolded and instantly know that “being strict with ourselves” is absolutely the wrong advice for me, or at least, it would be the way I would normally read it. I am not sure how carefully you followed the thread, but I do suffer from mental illness and perfectionism is a huge problem with me. Struggling to be “perfect” has not helped me get better.

I appreciate the spirit of this advice and know that it was well-intentioned, but please be careful who you give this kind of advice to. Many people who are like me are already way too strict with themselves.

 

[CathLifeHacker]

It depends on how you define “strict”. Being “strict” could mean following your counselor’s advice accurately, going for a walk when you feel depressed, etc. It doesn’t necessarily mean beating up on yourself.

Also take a look at the motivational speaker Eric Thomas, he gives motivational talks to the NFL, and he’s motivating urban kids around the country. He has a way of being tough and encouraging at the same time.

Here’s a sample
youtube.com/watch?v=8liVjJTMw80

That video gives a sample of his style. He has videos about addictions and losing weight too.

Again, perhaps this is not totally applicable to your situation, but you have to expect that on a forum you are not going to get specialist advice. At the same time you will get a variety of opinions and resources which you can evaluate yourself and keep what you think will help you and discard what you think you will not help you.

 

[pensmama87]

Well, I had my evaluation this morning. It did not go as well as I would have hoped. The clinician I met with recommended a 1x/week group therapy session using a therapy style my counselor and I have already determined is not particularly effective for me. The clinic specializes in the type of therapy my counselor uses, but obviously the setup is more intensive there than what I can accomplish in a session. But I don’t qualify for those treatments because I’m not currently suicidal.

Luckily I was able to push a bit (that’s huge for me as I am usually bad at that) and I got a couple of referrals to local psychiatrists who may be able to help me as far as determining an appropriate medication if that’s what I need. I know that what I’m currently doing in terms of treatment is not enough, even if I can still look like I have it “all together” in front of strangers. It was discouraging to hear that I am apparently not suffering enough to qualify for more help…the whole point of my reaching out was so I wouldn’t get to that place, KWIM?

Oh well…as they say in 12-step land…one day at a time! Now to figure out when on earth I’m going to call these folks…

 

[Xantippe]

pensmama87 said:

“But I don’t qualify for those treatments because I’m not currently suicidal.”

That’s setting the bar pretty high.

“Luckily I was able to push a bit (that’s huge for me as I am usually bad at that) and I got a couple of referrals to local psychiatrists who may be able to help me as far as determining an appropriate medication if that’s what I need.”

That’s good–both that you pushed and that you were successful.

Best wishes!

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Well, I had my evaluation this morning. It did not go as well as I would have hoped. The clinician I met with recommended a 1x/week group therapy session using a therapy style my counselor and I have already determined is not particularly effective for me. The clinic specializes in the type of therapy my counselor uses, but obviously the setup is more intensive there than what I can accomplish in a session. But I don’t qualify for those treatments because I’m not currently suicidal.

Luckily I was able to push a bit (that’s huge for me as I am usually bad at that) and I got a couple of referrals to local psychiatrists who may be able to help me as far as determining an appropriate medication if that’s what I need. I know that what I’m currently doing in terms of treatment is not enough, even if I can still look like I have it “all together” in front of strangers. It was discouraging to hear that I am apparently not suffering enough to qualify for more help…the whole point of my reaching out was so I wouldn’t get to that place, KWIM?

Oh well…as they say in 12-step land…one day at a time! Now to figure out when on earth I’m going to call these folks…

Congrats on getting the referrals! Try calling one dr tomorrow, the next Wednesday. Then it won’t seem like such a chore.

Sorry about the other therapy, but perhaps you’ll get some good tips from the others in the group.

I’ll keep praying.

 

[UbiCaritas]

Well, I had my evaluation this morning. It did not go as well as I would have hoped. The clinician I met with recommended a 1x/week group therapy session using a therapy style my counselor and I have already determined is not particularly effective for me. The clinic specializes in the type of therapy my counselor uses, but obviously the setup is more intensive there than what I can accomplish in a session. But I don’t qualify for those treatments because I’m not currently suicidal.

Luckily I was able to push a bit (that’s huge for me as I am usually bad at that) and I got a couple of referrals to local psychiatrists who may be able to help me as far as determining an appropriate medication if that’s what I need. I know that what I’m currently doing in terms of treatment is not enough, even if I can still look like I have it “all together” in front of strangers. It was discouraging to hear that I am apparently not suffering enough to qualify for more help…the whole point of my reaching out was so I wouldn’t get to that place, KWIM?

Oh well…as they say in 12-step land…one day at a time! Now to figure out when on earth I’m going to call these folks…

I…see. Is the goal to wait until you are suicidal to get you effective treatment? Because it seems to me–and I grant that I am no medical professional–that it would be rather a good thing if you didn’t reach that point in the first place…

Good on you for a LOT of things in this post, though: first, for pushing back to get recommendations on psychologists; second, for recognizing where you are mental-health-wise, rather than ignoring it and letting it get to the point of being suicidal, and third, for recognizing that what you’re doing isn’t working well enough, and being proactive in changing that. Those are HUGE steps!

 

[pensmama87]

**I…see. Is the goal to wait until you are suicidal to get you effective treatment? Because it seems to me–and I grant that I am no medical professional–that it would be rather a good thing if you didn’t reach that point in the first place…
**
Good on you for a LOT of things in this post, though: first, for pushing back to get recommendations on psychologists; second, for recognizing where you are mental-health-wise, rather than ignoring it and letting it get to the point of being suicidal, and third, for recognizing that what you’re doing isn’t working well enough, and being proactive in changing that. Those are HUGE steps!

That was pretty much my thinking, too. I have been suicidal before, and it was absolutely horrible, but until my evaluation I had no idea that it was (apparently) such a big aspect of the treatment there. I’d imagine many, if not most, people with eating disorders are not suicidal, even if many of them suffer from depression. The clinic’s specific purpose is eating disorder treatment. If she had said that they reserved treatment for cases where physical health is severely impaired (morbid obesity or severely underweight, for example), that would have been upsetting too, but it would have made sense because then at least it had something to do with the scope of what the clinic is for, and they wanted to concentrate their resources on those severe cases.

(This experience reminds me a little bit of the first time I sought treatment for my eating - which was almost 10 years ago now - the psychologist I met with said I couldn’t really have a problem because I wasn’t doing hard drugs or binge drinking. )

 

[UbiCaritas]

That was pretty much my thinking, too. I have been suicidal before, and it was absolutely horrible, but until my evaluation I had no idea that it was (apparently) such a big aspect of the treatment there. I’d imagine many, if not most, people with eating disorders are not suicidal, even if many of them suffer from depression. The clinic’s specific purpose is eating disorder treatment. If she had said that they reserved treatment for cases where physical health is severely impaired (morbid obesity or severely underweight, for example), that would have been upsetting too, but it would have made sense because then at least it had something to do with the scope of what the clinic is for, and they wanted to concentrate their resources on those severe cases.

(This experience reminds me a little bit of the first time I sought treatment for my eating - which was almost 10 years ago now - the psychologist I met with said I couldn’t really have a problem because I wasn’t doing hard drugs or binge drinking. )

Their thinking on this just strikes me as weird. Even if we’re talking about resources, wouldn’t it use fewer long-term to help patients who aren’t suicidal so that they won’t become that way? I mean, it’s a lot cheaper for me to have a plumber fix a leaky pipe than it is to wait until the pipe blows and requires me to replace the pipe, the wall in which it was housed, the floor of that room, anything stored under it that didn’t react well to water, etc.

As for that psychologist… sounds just about right. The mind boggles.