Mandatory Drug Testing For Welfare Recipients?

[pol]

I agree it is illegal as it was once illegal to have an alcholic drink or immoral to see/look/display a ladies ankles.

So take the blinkers off and try see the big picture.

What is the image you have when you think of a drug taker.

My image is everyone - they really look like everyone - from the homeless to the super rich to athletes, teachers, lawyers judges, police. I’ve met them all. I don’t support drug taking but i definitely don’t support throwing someone in goal (jail) for health problems. That really is a waste of tax dollars and potentially good rehabitable people.

best ya chill out have another cigaraette and a beer and please please wipe the dust off and read that bible your ma gave you!

 

[Spire]

I agree it is illegal as it was once illegal to have an alcholic drink or immoral to see/look/display a ladies ankles.

As do I.

So take the blinkers off and try see the big picture.

I do. It is illegal. I am forced to follow the laws, they should too.

What is the image you have when you think of a drug taker.

A criminal.

My image is everyone - they really look like everyone - from the homeless to the super rich to athletes, teachers, lawyers judges, police. I’ve met them all. I don’t support drug taking but i definitely don’t support throwing someone in goal (jail) for health problems. That really is a waste of tax dollars and potentially good rehabitable people.

So someone breaking the law shouldn’t dealt with?

best ya chill out have another cigaraette and a beer and please please wipe the dust off and read that bible your ma gave you!

I have and I clearly see that God deems ‘law’ and ‘order’ necessary. He also demands this of each of personally and exemplifies this numerous times.

 

[That_one_guy]

just enjoying the debate

 

[vz71]

What is the image you have when you think of a drug taker.

My image is everyone - they really look like everyone - from the homeless to the super rich to athletes, teachers, lawyers judges, police. I’ve met them all. I don’t support drug taking but i definitely don’t support throwing someone in goal (jail) for health problems. That really is a waste of tax dollars and potentially good rehabitable people.

A drug user uses drugs. I do not. Most people I know do not.
For that simple reason, a drug user can never look or act as they do. The very act of using is what differentiates the user from the non-user.
To lay claim that they look and act like everyone is to ignore the drug use.

Also, people do not just wake up one day addicted to drugs having never taken drugs before. They have to actively take a role in addicting themselves to the substance. At some point they were not addicted, at some point they took the drugs, at some point (many points) they commited a crime.
Treatment to rehabilitate is a great idea, but never forget that the act of taking drugs is a crime and the punishment must be metered out accordingly.

 

[vz71]

best ya chill out have another cigaraette and a beer and please please wipe the dust off and read that bible your ma gave you!

This is a red herring.
Cigarettes and beer are not illegal.

Your efforts to cast these in the same light as illegal drugs is not appropriate to the subject at hand.

 

[That_one_guy]

This is a red herring.
Cigarettes and beer are not illegal.

Your efforts to cast these in the same light as illegal drugs is not appropriate to the subject at hand.

Agreed. On the other hand, cigarettes are addicting. And beer is for some people and definitely can impair ones judgment and sensibility.

 

[ggaulin]

I take exception to the implication that if I don’t want to support a drug user with my tax dollars, I have somehow lost my way in following Jesus.

Please open your “dust free” bible and show me where Jesus said that the definition of loving my neighbor involved accepting and supporting his drug addiction?

If someone choses to use illegal drugs, that is his or her perrogative. If they expect the public to “bail” them out, however, they should be subject to certain conditions that will free them from this bondage as soon as possible.

It is not out of a sense of punishment for their predicament, rather a sense of rehabilitation and restoration. That sounds like love to me!

 

[otjm]

Personally, I find welfare problematic unless there is a component getting folks off of welfare. God didn’t create people to sponge off the taxpayers. He wants us to be productive, loving members of society.

If you must rely on taxpayer dollars to live, then you can’t afford to use drugs both in the sense of monetary cost and in the sense of human cost. To make drug testing conditional to the use of public funds seems entirely reasonable.

If they don’t like it, get off of welfare. Maybe that’s the incentive they need…

You obviously have no experience whatsoever with the poor. You make no differentiation between those who may be capable of holding a job and those who are not. Sponging? maybe you should read the Gospels. I don’t recall Christ using that term about the poor; nor do I recall St Paul using that word.

There are many poor who would (and do) get off welfare and do get a job; there seems to be an implied bias in your comments that we have permanent welfare recipients who make welfare their sole source of income. That there may well be some given the size of the population is no doubt true; but the welfare reform of prior administrations has significantly cut down that number. and you have made no showing of what we do with those who are unemployable; it would appear that you are not a business owner having to deal with those who are unemployable; you would change your tune quickly if you confronted the reality of someone who doesn’t fit your job description.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

I feel very sad for anyone stuck without a job and children to feed having to be on welfare(the lowest paying funds ever)and then have people Mark them on top of it all.Yes there are people who take advantage of the system just like those who work and cheat on their taxes or look for loop holes.There are alot of takers in this world and God knows who they are but why should we make all suffer for a few greedy lazy bums?Think of who runs welfare,look it up and you will find it is one hugh departments broken down to alot of small ones,like ssi for the disabled,regular ssd,your social security,medical devisions,elderly services,home care,and the list goes on and some day you never know if you will be on one of those lists and have to leave your warm bed to go get blood drawn before you get help.Alcohol test:12Mil vile used for blood draws alot involved,many people are on certain meds that can give false positive readings,alot of people in areas of the US that use drugs to treat terminally ill patients. Beleive me your intentions may be good but the outcome will be disasterious.It’s alot deeper then you could imagine.leave well enough alone,if you want to do something for them PRAY:thumbsup: Nancy

 

[RobHom]

Hay read your subject over and see how much sense you don’t make not to mention the expense.Are you trying to prove how intellegent you arn’t?

I am amazed at your comment…but then it tells me that you know virtually nothing about the subject.

Beyond that, I’ll not justify your comment with further response.

 

[That_one_guy]

I am amazed at your comment…but then it tells me that you know virtually nothing about the subject.

Beyond that, I’ll not justify your comment with further response.

Hey! I’ll have you all know that I know absolutely everything there is to know about stuff that nobody cares about and I am more than willing to share it with anybody who care less.

Because we are all only in third grade around here.

 

[RobHom]

Hey! I’ll have you all know that I know absolutely everything there is to know about stuff that nobody cares about and I am more than willing to share it with anybody who care less.

Because we are all only in third grade around here.

Uh-huh…

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

I am amazed at your comment…but then it tells me that you know virtually nothing about the subject.

Beyond that, I’ll not justify your comment with further response.

If you read on you will see that I know alot more about this subject then you could emagine Ive done nursing for over 40 years and phlibotomy,not to mention Mental health I am certified by the State for behavoir health with children and adults I worked with the elderly in hospitals at home in other settings,I brought up 4 children and had my share of problems,and I do know if you put a leash on an animal that has never been leashed before you take the chance of getting bit.I’m not arguing with you I am telling you to degrade people only makes them worst. Nancy

 

[ggaulin]

You obviously have no experience whatsoever with the poor. You make no differentiation between those who may be capable of holding a job and those who are not. Sponging? maybe you should read the Gospels. I don’t recall Christ using that term about the poor; nor do I recall St Paul using that word.

This is how the dictionary defines the term “sponge”: a person who persistently borrows from or lives at the expense of others; sponger; parasite. It may not satisy some of those in the PC crowd, but I think it pretty accurately describes the individuals we are talking about.

There are many poor who would (and do) get off welfare aand do get a job; there seems to be an implied bias in your comments that we have permanent welfare recipients who make welfare their sole source of income. That there may well be some given the size of the population is no doubt true; but the welfare reform of prior administrations has significantly cut down that number. and you have made no showing of what we do with those who are unemployable; it would appear that you are not a business owner having to deal with those who are unemployable; you would change your tune quickly if you confronted the reality of someone who doesn’t fit your job description.

Look, I am not saying that people don’t experience hardships and that when those hardships occur that there should not be some mechanism to provide support. I believe that such a policy is good for society and I believe it is consistent with the teachings of Christ. I don’t believe that welfare should be a source of income for life. I have stated earlier, overall, everyone should be contributor to society, not a taker. No one is entitled to that. That is not good for the individual because they will be suppressed and not able to reach their full potential.

Actually, I am a business owner and in my years in business, I have employed some pretty rough characters. Still, my job was to provide the opportunity. I never felt I owed them a job or an income for that matter unless they performed.

One last thought, read Matthew’s Gospel, chapter 25. Jesus tells the parable of the talents. I believe that Jesus wants people to be productive and contributing to the good of society and His church.

 

[goofyjim]

Are these people capable of taking care of themselves? If not, they need to be in some sort of residential treatment program, which should include a work component.

If they can shop, cook, clean and care for themselves, then they are capable of simple manual labor.

I’m not saying you cut off their benefits if they don’t show up one day. But, there needs to be expectations set that a recipient of charity will make a good faith effort to do everything in their power to help improve their situation.

That includes taking their prescribed medication and participating in some sort of work (if only to improve their self image).

Modern society grossly underestimates the value of the dignity earned through work.

God Bless

God Bless

You have got it all wrong. Just because they can shop, clean or cook for themselves doesn’t mean they can handle the stress of a job. And until such time as they are able the funds should not be cutoff. There are many like myself who can do all the other stuff but even while on medication tried job after job and couldn’t handle it. Without Social Security disability I would have been homeless which is unacceptable when I have broken no law. And I would never have opposed drug testing because I would have come up clean every time having never done drugs. My proposal is that noone, even those earning their living, have a right to drug use and therefore everyone should be randomly tested.

 

[Nepenthe]

I am still so aghast that at the very beginning of this thread, someone trotted out the old, shriveled and repulsive chestnut that ‘if you haven’t broken any laws, then you have nothing to fear - so submit like a good little serf!.’

I…I cannot maintain my equilibrium enough to answer that coherently, although it is very intellectually crystal clear to me, and I well know it as the eternal warcry of the merciless, vicious Tyrant.

Yes, I am too appalled and frankly frightened that so many here seem to be just okeydoke with that. So, in order to save myself a conniption, I end my say in a state of despair.

Quick edit: for many of you, the tiniest shred of ‘human dignity’ goes right out the window and over the cliff when you feel that self-righteousness coming on, evidently.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

I am still so aghast that at the very beginning of this thread, someone trotted out the old, shriveled and repulsive chestnut that ‘if you haven’t broken any laws, then you have nothing to fear - so submit like a good little serf!.’

I…I cannot maintain my equilibrium enough to answer that coherently, although it is very intellectually crystal clear to me, and I well know it as the eternal warcry of the merciless, vicious Tyrant.

Yes, I am too appalled and frankly frightened that so many here seem to be just okeydoke with that. So, in order to save myself a conniption, I end my say in a state of despair.

Quick edit: for many of you, the tiniest shred of ‘human dignity’ goes right out the window and over the cliff when you feel that self-righteousness coming on, evidently.

I know where your coming from Cheer up the Lord is coming soon! I always wanted a music career in heaven :harp: Isn’t God good! Nancy:thumbsup:

 

[Eggnotz]

Filling a bottle then getting a check seems like a pretty easy day’s work to me. Seems compassionate as well.

 

[Cristiano]

If the government gives you money do you owe it to society to stay drug free?

1- You owe it to society whether you get welfare or not!

2- Are you assuming that most of the recipients are junkies? If not, than how do you justify spending so much money to do it.

3- Do you know that a lot of companies dropped the drug testing programs because they aren’t really cost effective. Unless you might have high liability costs drug testing is too expensive. How can the government do it to his employees? Because the government is not accountable in how the money is spent/wasted.

4- Which are the consequences for a positive test? Which ones are for a false positive?

5- Should we move people that use drugs from the welfare system to the jail system? Is that fiscally efficient?

I think that mandatory drug testing would not put a dent in reduction of welfare costs or bad behaviors.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

1- You owe it to society whether you get welfare or not!

2- Are you assuming that most of the recipients are junkies? If not, than how do you justify spending so much money to do it.

3- Do you know that a lot of companies dropped the drug testing programs because they aren’t really cost effective. Unless you might have high liability costs drug testing is too expensive. How can the government do it to his employees? Because the government is not accountable in how the money is spent/wasted.

4- Which are the consequences for a positive test? Which ones are for a false positive?

5- Should we move people that use drugs from the welfare system to the jail system? Is that fiscally efficient?

I think that mandatory drug testing would not put a dent in reduction of welfare costs or bad behaviors.

That’s exactly right ,cost,and false positive readings. Thank You Nancy:thumbsup: