Mandatory vaccinations vs moral objection

[Almostconvert]

NOTE: I HAVE REACHED MY POST LIMIT FOR MY FIRST DAY POSTING AND CANNOT POST UNTIL THE EVENING OF 6/21. I STILL AM SEEKING AID IN MY ORIGINAL QUESTION IN REGARDS TO THE CHURCH AND MY INABILITY TO MORALLY OBJECT BY FACING MANDATORY VACCINATION. MY CONCERN SEEMS TO COME FROM THE CHURCH’S MOST RECENT RESPONSE BEING FROM 2005 AND NOT ADDRESSING THE NEW ACQUISITION OF UNBORN BABIES FOR VACCINE DEVELOPMENT.

I hope to make this as concise as possible.

I am aware of the Catholic stance on vaccinations and have read the documents specifically in regards to the use and continued procuring of aborted babies in creating and manufacturing them.

As a Protestant considering conversion, I’m struggling with the acceptance of this by the Catholic Church but, have set this aside as I can understand that some feel the benefit outweighs the risk. Recently, however, I feel I am less able to ignore this as a difference of opinion, especially with the recent ruling of a local archdiocese preventing parents from submitting a religious exemption in the parochial schools for vaccination status. They then retracted this to only apply to Catholic students, not others who attend the school who aren’t Catholic.

Now, I am a little worried about converting myself and my children to Catholicism for fear of persecution from the very Church I feel called to.

This is where my question comes in. I am aware that the church allows for the vaccination of children as long as we express our desire to remove the use of babies in the process as well as to seek out alternatives where possible. How can the Church ignore a strong conviction I feel from the Holy Spirit? I cannot fathom willingly injecting my children with fragments of other humans DNA. The vaccine manufacturing companies are not attempting to find alternatives (in fact, they are procuring more) and they continue to operate immorally. Am I not able to feel a personal conviction on a moral issue such as this? And then, if I were to move forward with vaccination and ignore this conviction, is it not knowledgeably sinning to ignore this? To feel the need to go to confession for this action once and then to willingly do it again knowing I will need to go to confession again?

I feel like I cannot follow my calling to the Church and risk my moral standing, particularly if that decision will force me to vaccinate my children against this standing in order for them to continue to attend their Catholic School. I can’t come Home.

Forgive me if I am grossly wrong about confession or something other. I will not, however, be convinced of the moral acceptability of vaccines in relation to abortion.

 

[ratio1]

The vaccine manufacturing companies are not attempting to find alternatives (in fact, they are procuring more) and they continue to operate immorally.

I’m sorry i cannot answer your question. I must say i’m not very aware of this issue.
Could you please point me to the evidence of your statement above? Thanks.

 

[thistle]

Forgive me if I am grossly wrong about confession or something other. I will not, however, be convinced of the moral acceptability of vaccines in relation to abortion.

Are you saying you would rather put your child’s life at risk?

" A statement from the Pontifical Academy for Life issued in 2005 holds that one may use these products, despite their distant association with abortion, at least until such time as new vaccines become available. The Vatican instruction Dignitas personae (n. 35) states that “grave reasons may be morally proportionate to justify” the use of these products, “for example, danger to the health of children could permit parents to use a vaccine which was developed using cell lines of illicit origin, while keeping in mind that everyone has the duty to make known their disagreement and to ask that their healthcare system make other types of vaccines available.” It concludes with a reminder that we are living “in the context of the urgent need to mobilize consciences in favor of life ,” which points to the importance of avoiding scandal and giving witness to the dignity of every human life."

 

[1ke]

Now, I am a little worried about converting myself and my children to Catholicism for fear of persecution from the very Church I feel called to.

There is nothing immoral about vaccines, and the Church does not teach that they are immoral, nor that a Catholic muse refrain from them. In fact, vaccines are a a positive medical advancement.

Therefore, a Catholic cannot claim a religious objection exemption.

That is not persecution. That is simply a fact.

The morality of the manufacturing of vaccines are a different matter. The Church has issued guidance on the matter. There may be specific vaccines that are immoral, now or in the future. And in those cases, the Church can issue guidance, and a person would be justified in refusing that particular vaccine.

How can the Church ignore a strong conviction I feel from the Holy Spirit?

Feelings are not facts.

You cannot claim a religious exemption when there is no basis for it in your religion.

Some states allow other kinds of exemptions.

 

[1ke]

I would encourage you to get in contact with the National Catholic Bioethics Center for a more in depth discussion of the matter.

 

[Hoosier-Daddy]

Vaccinate. Don’t vaccinate. Neither makes you a better or worse Catholic.

 

[PJH_74]

The vaccine manufacturing companies are not attempting to find alternatives (in fact, they are procuring more) and they continue to operate immorally.

I have a really strong inability to understand why someone would not vaccinate their children. Vaccination is the health miracle of modern medicine. Sorry, personally, I see not doing so as a rather selfish act supported by bogus information.

Why do I think so? There are people for whom a particular vaccinations is truly and demonstrably not safe. Those who can be vaccinated are able to protect their fellow humans by not transmitting these diseases. More importantly, we can rid the world of what have often historically been devastating diseases. I’d love to see those who’ve lived in the time in which, say polio, was rampant. The other reason is that this can cause an increased use of antibiotics, which is making more and more ineffective this other pillar of modern medicine. So honestly, I can see not doing so as a virtue and more likely a sin no matter what church you subscribe to.

 

[1ke]

Vaccinate. Don’t vaccinate. Neither makes you a better or worse Catholic.

The OP’s concern is that she cannot use a religious exemption to forego vaccination because the Catholic school does not accept that from a Catholic.

The school doesn’t accept religious exemption from Catholic students because the Church doesn’t prohibit vaccines nor does it teach they are immoral, so there is no basis for religious exemption.

 

[Almostconvert]

I’m sorry i cannot answer your question. I must say i’m not very aware of this issue.
Could you please point me to the evidence of your statement above? Thanks.

**I had links but cannot include them. I suppose I’m too new

Sure. The most recent I believe is Walvax 2 procured via the water bag abortion of 9 babies in China. This cell line is being studied as a replacement for the current ones as they have become unstable. It has not been used officially I don’t believe and if it fails they will be required to obtain more. The pharmaceutical companies are not hiding the fact that they need more babies.

At what point does the church acknowledge that is immorality is continuing to progress and address it again? It’s my understanding that we accepted it because it was in the past and good things have come from unfortunate circumstances (experiments done on Jews in concentration camps) but we no longer commit these atrocities do it’s okay to use them now. This is no longer true.

Are you saying you would rather put your child’s life at risk?

I do not believe I am putting my child’s safety at risk and I am aware of the statement the church has on this.

There is nothing immoral about vaccines,

There may be specific vaccines that are immoral… And in those cases, the Church can issue guidance, and a person would be justified in refusing that particular vaccine.

So there is or there isn’t anything immoral? This is what I’m saying. I don’t believe the church has adequately addressed the progress of this issue. I have no guidance on the fact that at least none recorded lives have been lost since the church offered their statement in 2005. It is absolutely immoral.

Feelings are not facts.

So can I not confess a sin I feel about consuming alcohol even though this is common practice in the church? (I don’t mean this to be snarky, I’m truly wondering if I cannot feel convictions that the church does not teach against).

Vaccinate. Don’t vaccinate. Neither makes you a better or worse Catholic

Except there is now a possibility that I will be forced to vaccinate my children in order for them to attend school as Catholics. If I do not baptize then as Catholics, they will be free to attend the school. When I began my journey my impression about the matter is that you’ve stated, but that doesn’t seem to be true now.

I have a really strong inability to understand why someone would not vaccinate their children. Vaccination is the health miracle of modern medicine.

Even if it requires that we continue to kill the unborn to maintain? I won’t begin to argue the ins and outs of vaccine safety here. We obviously disagree.

I suppose my bigger question is maybe why hasn’t the church addressed the continuation of the role abortion plays in vaccine manufacturing?

 

[Hoosier-Daddy]

Then just like the person can choose to vax or not vax they can choose educate their children based on those choices.

We vax but I don’t care much one way or the other and we homeschool so if we didn’t vax that would not be a problem. Honestly I think this issue is so overblown as it is. On both sides.

 

[Thorolfr]

Even if it requires that we continue to kill the unborn to maintain? I won’t begin to argue the ins and outs of vaccine safety here. We obviously disagree.

How are the unborn continuing to be killed by people being vaccinated now? The cell lines (WI-38 and MRC-5) used to make most of these vaccines were developed in 1962 and 1970. The two fetuses from which these cell lines are derived have been dead for 50 years.

 

[Almostconvert]

How are the unborn continuing to be killed by people being vaccinated now? The cell lines used to make most of these vaccines were developed in 1962 and 1970. The two fetuses from which these cell lines are derived have been dead for 50 years.

I addressed this earlier. Look up Walvax 2. 9 babies were killed in China via water bag abortion in 2015 (meaning they were induced and delivered alive, and their organs were harvested while alive to ensure they were as fresh as possible).

I apologize, the forum will not allow me to post links.

 

[Beryllos]

The most recent I believe is Walvax 2 procured via the water bag abortion of 9 babies in China.

I looked it up and see that the Walvax-2 aborted fetus cell line was produced and assessed by researchers around 2015, but so far I haven’t been able to find any mention of its use for production of vaccines for clinical use.

It’s not clear to me that pharmaceutical companies need it or are moving forward with it. Of course, if that begins to happen, we should be concerned.

 

[Maezck]

I’ve hand written a letter to Catholic Answers three mos ago about this very thing and have received no answer yet, so I am curious too. I have plenty of catholic friends and former nurse friends concerned also. You’re not alone

 

[Maezck]

There were over 200 babies killed, and more than two used in the vaccines which continue to be circulated. Please look up each cell line. 50 years or not, we refuse to inject other women’s abortions into ourselves and our children.

I’ll also add that Robert F Kennedy Jr has been speaking out about all of this too, how there’s ZERO studies for safety on these cell lines.

https://cogforlife.org/wp-content/uploads/vaccineListOrigFormat.pdf

 

[Almostconvert]

I looked it up and see that the Walvax-2 aborted fetus cell line was produced and assessed by researchers around 2015, but so far I haven’t been able to find any mention of its use for production of vaccines for clinical use.

But that is what it was obtained for. Even worse if it doesn’t work. The original cell lines must be replaced. They will just have to keep trying thereby killing more babies. And let’s not pretend that there are only 9. Stanley Plotkin has testified to that.

From the link I can’t post:

“Human diploid cell strains (HDCSs), possessing identical chromosome sets known to be free of all known adventitious agents, are of great use in developing human vaccines. However it is extremely difficult to obtain qualified HDCSs that can satisfy the requirements for the mass production of vaccines. We have developed a new HDCS, Walvax-2, which we derived from the lung tissue of a 3-month-old fetus.”

 

[Almostconvert]

I’ve hand written a letter to Catholic Answers three mos ago about this very thing and have received no answer yet, so I am curious too. I have plenty of catholic friends and former nurse friends concerned also. You’re not alone

Thank you for your support. I’m truly not even here to argue the safety and efficacy of vaccines. I’m honestly heartbroken because I was ready to come Home. To bring my family with me. But how can I?

 

[Maezck]

I’ve held a catholic exemption for religion throughout all five years of college, using the Vatican’s own letter written to Children of God for Life org. So that’s not even accurate what you just said about religious exemptions, please do not promote that.

https://cogforlife.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/vaticanresponse.pdf

 

[Thorolfr]

50 years or not, we refuse to inject other women’s abortions into ourselves and our children.

If people refuse to vaccinate their kids or themselves because of this, some of them will become infected with measles or chicken pox, etc. and pass this on to others, some of whom will die as a result. Is that morally acceptable?

 

[Almostconvert]

I’ve held a catholic exemption for religion throughout all five years of college, using the Vatican’s own letter written to Children of God for Life org. So that’s not even accurate what you just said about religious exemptions, please do not promote that.

Are you referring to me? One of our state archdiocese has recently rejected religious exemptions for it’s Catholic students. Our state, however, still allows them.