Mandatory vaccinations vs moral objection

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I am Catholic as well, as is my mother, who converted when I was 4 years old… We are both 100% against vaccines now as nearly all of them contain aborted baby cells (we didn’t used to be before we knew what we know now). I don’t have much great advice, but what I do know is that there is a lot of evil in this world, and humans are fallible… Very fallible. There are many wonderful priests and men in higher positions, but I know evil can sneak in anywhere. I think the argument for vaccines in the Catholic Church is not in alignment with what God would want, all of my family firmly believes this too and we have come to learn. It has taken many years. Even IF they saved one life, he would not condone this method if it came at the price of an unborn baby… Period. It makes me sad that even the Catholic Church seems bought out by pharma, but not everyone in the church agrees with the higher ups either… Most people just want the go-ahead to sin because it makes life easier on them (or they think it does). Just look at the post above as a shining example, “remote evil?” Complacency is within the church too from many members. There are really amazing things about Catholicism, but you are right - we would be sinning by partaking in vaccines. You can’t make a body clean by injecting it with impurities and we are called to treat our body as a temple always. Perhaps you could make it your mission (instead of questioning becoming Catholic) to change the mind of some within the Catholic school with a great letter or something? Even I’m thinking of doing this now that I’m talking about it… If they truly want to follow the Lord, they will take what you say and think about it…but if it’s mandated by the state that may be another story though, and the only option then is homeschooling for those of us caught in this stripping of our rights crossfire. Perhaps you may save some people in this life that actually matter… The one that comes after this short adventure too.
 
You already have many responses on the religious aspect, so I’d like to veer off into the science arena. I’m not sure if I can leave a link here, but there is extremely important information for you to take into consideration before making your decision. Dr. Theresa Deisher is a brilliant scientist that has been studying the health impact in babies & children that are injected with human DNA fragments found in many vaccines.

She recently wrote a letter to legislatures regarding her very serious concerns about mandating the MMR vaccine because it contains human DNA. Actually this is something each & every parent & adult needs to read as it will affect us all. If no link is left, just search her name within fb & the letter will come right up.
 
We seem to be talking past each other (no real dialog), so I’m out of here. God bless all.
 
Surely then you would have to know that measles is caused by a viral infection. Not a vitamin deficiency. It is not like scurvy or rickets.

Vitamin A deficiencies in the first world is virtually unheard of. Yet measles exists.
 
(http://www.cacatholic.org/policies-...ion-parental-rights-and-mandated-vaccinations),

“There would seem to be no proper grounds for refusing immunization against dangerous contagious disease, for example, rubella, especially in light of the concern that we should all have for the health of our children, public health, and the common good”. “It should be obvious that vaccine use in these cases does not contribute directly to the practice of abortion since the reasons for having an abortion are not related to vaccine preparation.”
Catholic bioethics.

Enough for me.

Everytime you eat meat or plants you eat DNA. The carry on about the ‘carcinogenic molecules’ I because it’s DNA is a little comical. After all any DNA can mutate at any time. Including your own. That is what cancer is.

OP not sure why you think this is a anti catholic thing. Catholics can in all good faith immunise.
 
Measles mumps rubella and chicken pox all have serious side effects. My son had chicken pox before the vaccine came out. It was a bad case
and I remember tth w doctor telling me to hope and pray it didn’t spread to his lungs.
Remote cooperation with evil is an idea that has long been around. It is not some new thing that was thought up to allow vaccine use. It is a legitimate part of deciding if you are guilty of sin.
 
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Maezck said:
So that’s not even accurate what you just said about religious exemptions, please do not promote that.
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You need to reread what I wrote. I was speaking about blanket exemptions based on Catholicism. I also wrote that objection to a specific vaccine may be a different issue, per the morality of that vaccine and what the Church may say about it.

The letter from COGFL does not support the position that Catholics can blanket exempt from vaccines on a “religious exemption”.

If you got a blanket exemption from a college with that letter, then they didn’t read it very closely.
 
ewohdrol said:
Vitamin A deficiencies in the first world is virtually unheard of. Yet measles exists.
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This is entirely false, there’s hundreds if not thousands of NCBI and NIH journals that state otherwise. There will always be measles issues so long as nutrition lacks.

From the AAP’s Pediatrics Gateway,
“The World Health Organization (WHO) and the United Nations International Children’s Emergency Fund (UNICEF) issued a joint statement recommending that vitamin A be administered to all children diagnosed with measles in communities where vitamin A deficiency (serum vitamin A <10 µg/dL) is a recognized problem and where mortality related to measles is ≥1%. The recommended regimen is 100,000 IU by mouth at the time of diagnosis for infants younger than 12 months of age, and 200,000 IU for older children.” Etc
 
I’m not sure if you are agreeing with me or not?

Absolutely they can be serious. Especially measles, it can have horrific implications for young children.

My point was it is NOT caused by a vitamin deficiency. It is viral, thus caught most likely through fluid exposure.
 
You have quoted a treatment not the mode of transportation. You are confusing two very different things. I am not arguing that having the right vitamins is not important for recovery.

Doesn’t change the fact that measles is a viral infection! It is not caused by lack of vitamins. Yes, treatment of vitamin A is recommended for a speedier recovery. No one disagrees with that.

But having enough vitamin A doesn’t stop you contracting measles. It just helps you recover from it quicker.
 
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Jillian4 said:
We are both 100% against vaccines now as nearly all of them contain aborted baby cells (we didn’t used to be before we knew what we know now).
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Read the Church’s document available from COGFL. The actual number of vaccines that are problematic are quite small. It is not “nearly all”. In fact, in the US there are only 3 with no alternative: rubella (German measles), varicella (chickenpox), and hepatitis A.

And the Church does not require us to forego these vaccines.
Jillian4 said:
I think the argument for vaccines in the Catholic Church is not in alignment with what God would want, all of my family firmly believes this too and we have come to learn.
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The Church actually says something very different about vaccines as a whole.
Jillian4 said:
Just look at the post above as a shining example, “remote evil?”
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Um, yes. The principles related to cooperation with evil are Catholic moral principles. This isn’t anything new, or unknown. I would encourage you to study the Catholic faith more and learn principles of moral theology.
Jillian4 said:
we would be sinning by partaking in vaccines.
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The Church teaches the opposite.
 
@ewohdrol

Everytime you eat meat or plants you eat DNA.

(Except, eating and digestion with the gut to protect for contaminants, is not the same process as injecting which bypasses the gut and even leaks through it).

The carry on about the ‘carcinogenic molecules’ because it’s DNA is a little comical.
(When you eat a fruit or type of food that contains a carcinogen, it is converted or expelled from the gut. The gut is the first line of defense for the body and bloodstrem, a vax is not injected into the digestive system-although it can bypass other areas and leak into the gut which is where contamination usually stems from, as well as shedding of said vax in urine or feces).

After all any DNA can mutate at any time. Including your own. That is what cancer is.
(And yet all vaccines state on section 13.1 of the insert that they’ve not been tested for mutagenic or carcinogenicity. Your having DNA won’t give you cancer, but injection of another form of DNA could. This is why they’re still aborting children, and using their cells).

OP not sure why you think this is a anti catholic thing. Catholics can in all good faith immunise.
(Its already been explained above. An organization claiming otherwise, claiming a blanket statement of trying to dissuade the vaccine and abortion connection, isn’t ethics, sorry).
 
@Maezck

There is so much incorrect science here I can’t even.

So I won’t. Best of luck to you.
 
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@1ke "Read the Church’s document available from COGFL. The actual number of vaccines that are problematic are quite small. It is not “nearly all”. In fact, in the US there are only 3 with no alternative: rubella (German measles), varicella (chickenpox), and hepatitis A.
And the Church does not require us to forego these vaccines."
There’s an entire list of vaccines from COGFL, you haven’t seen their PDF? Nearly all of them are tainted from COGFL’s 2019 update, which they update monthly. The church doesn’t require anyone to forego vaccines, because they have no official teachings on this matter as of yet. They have a number of suggestions both pro and con, for people to make their own medical decisions. Many describe it as complacency, fence sitting. Myself and other Catholics agree.

"The Church actually says something very different about vaccines as a whole."
The Church has said a lot of things both for and against, which is how one priest can preach against them warning people, and another can promote them as a form of healthcare trying to stuff them down anothers throat as moral - as you’re doing by replying this nonsense to me.

"Um, yes. The principles related to cooperation with evil are Catholic moral principles. This isn’t anything new, or unknown. I would encourage you to study the Catholic faith more and learn principles of moral theology."
I’m glad you’re familiar with the teachings of being a participant in a moral evil. You didn’t understand my reference I see, but it wasn’t directed @ you.

"The Church teaches the opposite."
You can keep saying this until you’re blue, my God would never want me or others to inject murdered babies into us, eyeballs, liver, kidney, and lung cells. Especially ones having never been morally obtained, as well as never tested for proper safety, all at the expense of these infants via multibillion dollar corporations. Sorry, we will not agree with your interpretation of this information and your replies are useless here.
 
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Wow. I have never seen so much petty flagging. It is supposed to be for violation of the rules, not because of content disagreement. Besides, I think most people missed the gist of the OP. It was about Catholic teaching, not science. In this case the Catholic teaching is clear. One’s own well-formed conscience must be followed even in error. The one place this seems like an exception is in accepting dogma with an assent of faith, but that is only because without doing this basic act, then there is not a true belief in the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

Few people join believing and accepting everything the Church teaches. So the teaching on vaccination, while based in doctrine, is also based in science. It should not present a stumbling block to anyone. If one has a conscience that says they should not be taken, then do not take them. However, try to study and understand the mind of the Church the whole time, even if it is a life time of study.

I would add one caveat. There is a basic lack of charity if the reason is selfish, that is, in violation of the Golden Rule of wanting to protect one’s own family without any respect that all parents have this same need that we must also accommodate. But I did not get that this was the objection. Even if it is, one is not expected to be a saint to become a Catholic.
 
Thorolfr said:
Measles and chicken pox are not “mild childhood illnesses” for people who already have compromised immune systems.
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This…or people who never got it as a child. I’m 12 years younger than my sister and was never exposed to chicken pox as a kid. I got vaccinated for chicken pox in my 20’s. The older I got without getting the illness, the more severe it could be.

It may be a “mild childhood illness” if you get it when you’re a child… If I were to get it now it could put me in the hospital…or worse.
 
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@ewohdrol
You have quoted a treatment not the mode of transportation. You are confusing two very different things. I am not arguing that having the right vitamins is not important for recovery.
Um, no. I’ve quoted a prevention method as well as a treatment, which is why the WHO and UNICEF delivers into these 3rd world regions for high risk regions to take daily as a supplement. There are a number of modes of transportation yes, that’s just part of it though.

Doesn’t change the fact that measles is a viral infection! It is not caused by lack of vitamins. Yes, treatment of vitamin A is recommended for a speedier recovery. No one disagrees with that. But having enough vitamin A doesn’t stop you contracting measles. It just helps you recover from it quicker.
Vitamin A deficiency is the primary recognized risk factor for measles infections, as well as the primary preventative measure. Having enough Vitamin A in the liver is the key to solving the deficiency, easily mitigates any measles complications.

Also yes, @Maezck I have found this information to be accurate too, especially with when we eat a fruit that’s high in formaldehyde it turns into enzymes – not a harmful carcinogen. Which is not the case for injection. Great post
 
TC3033 said:
This…or people who never got it as a child. I’m 12 years younger than my sister and was never exposed to chicken pox as a kid. I got vaccinated for chicken pox in my 20’s. The older I got without getting the illness, the more severe it could be.
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I was only 5 and was very healthy when I got chicken pox. I almost died. The doctor said it reminded him of small pox it was such a severe case. I ended up hospitalized with sepsis. Chicken pox Can be extremely dangerous.

There is some truth on both sides of this fight. What I don’t understand is why there is such ugliness? Why are there outright lies? Why can’t people agree that we as parents should do what we believe is best for our children and respect others decisions for theirs.

The only part that truly concerns me about anti vaccine parents today is that no one keeps their child away from others when that are sick. In generations past, a child got sick, a Dr made a house call, child was quarantined. It limited exposure to others. I noticed over the years as I was teaching, kids were more and more often sick and feverish, given Tylenol, sent to school, Tylenol stopped working, parents were called and it would take hours to come pick them up if they ever did. The kids were back in school the next day. Many times it was not the working parents that did this but stay at home parents. Illness spread of course. No one stays home when sick anymore.
 
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