Man's free will vs. God's Will

[anniemart]

I received some heartbreaking news yesterday that led me to shed many a silent tear…did not want to burden family members. I know my faith will strengthen because of this so I am grateful for the humility imparted via this news.

But I have to question…when it is that we accept certain things as being God’s will and other’s as being the free will of man?

For instance, if I had received good news I probably would have seen it as God’s will working through man. But since I received bad news, I could not immediately see this as God’s will working through man, but instead, man’s free will. The news I was hoping for was a decision decided upon by a fellow brother in Christ. I suppose that my brother in Christ made a decision based on predetermined reasons. I’m not sure I had a fair chance.

Despite my ramblings, my question above is what is really important to me.

Have I completely confused you? I’m sorry; and it’s o.k. if you don’t have a post to offer. I know I will get through this momentary darkness; our Lord never abandons us. Thanks and may the Good Lord bestow upon you many blessings today…moreso than usual!

 

[ed1000]

For instance, if I had received good news I probably would have seen it as God’s will working through man. But since I received bad news, I could not immediately see this as God’s will working through man, but instead, man’s free will.

As a starting point - maybe even as a finishing point! - there is nothing wrong with this. We can grow in faith and strength calling our obvious joys the gift of God, and our disappointments - I understand this is a big one, possibly a moral or spiritual disappointment, not a disappointed preference - the work of self will in man.

Speaking from a perspective that I try to remember in my own life, I shy away from thinking that God makes “choices” the way we do, rewarding or disappointing us in a personal, particular way. I feel God is always there, awaiting our choice - although “awaiting” seems also to personalize, or infer choice. God is just there already. We choose Him. It seems that your friend may not have chosen God, but it is hard to know if that was willful, or whether he chose according to his best judgment and ability at the time. In no way does his choice reflect a judgment on you. God Bless you. You are asking very important questions, so there is no need to apologize!

 

[diligamus]

I pray for you at this time. If it’s any help to you, the first and second readings for this coming Sunday (23rd Sunday in Ordinary time) have something to say about God’s will and free will.

 

[anniemart]

As a starting point - maybe even as a finishing point! - there is nothing wrong with this. We can grow in faith and strength calling our obvious joys the gift of God, and our disappointments - I understand this is a big one, possibly a moral or spiritual disappointment, not a disappointed preference - the work of self will in man.

Speaking from a perspective that I try to remember in my own life, I shy away from thinking that God makes “choices” the way we do, rewarding or disappointing us in a personal, particular way. I feel God is always there, awaiting our choice - although “awaiting” seems also to personalize, or infer choice. God is just there already. We choose Him. It seems that your friend may not have chosen God, but it is hard to know if that was willful, or whether he chose according to his best judgment and ability at the time. In no way does his choice reflect a judgment on you. God Bless you. You are asking very important questions, so there is no need to apologize!

ed,
after reading your response yesterday, I was left without words. I coudn’t think of anything to respond because my heart seemed to be beating in slow motion. Kind of like when you see things happening around you and you’re trying to catch up to them…I felt better the rest of the day and I thank you for that. You were very kind in responding. I know I’m back to square one in my goals but my spiritual life is going ever stronger! Thank you again, ed1000.

Father, please let me rest my weary head upon your feet; as a dog would do to his master.

 

[anniemart]

I pray for you at this time. If it’s any help to you, the first and second readings for this coming Sunday (23rd Sunday in Ordinary time) have something to say about God’s will and free will.

diligamus, my heart goes out to you for offering a prayer for me…with so many more needy souls in this world. thank you kindly. we often forget how important it is to pray for ourselves when it life doesn’t work out to our expectations. I took your advice and have been reading this Sunday’s readings. I look forward to Father’s homily.

I will never profess to understanding man’s free will completely…a mystery of this earthly life. I do know that this experience in my life will keep me on the right side of humility. How lucky we are to be children of the one true Church. God bless you and your loved ones too.

Jesus I Trust in You. Jesus I Trust in You. Jesus I Trust in You.

 

[water]

But I have to question…when it is that we accept certain things as being God’s will and other’s as being the free will of man?

When one is with God, walking with God, talking with walk, he is likely to follow God’s will; however, he sometimes does not know any differences between his will and God’s will. He should then pray and be patient - that would be his first step going to the direction of following God’s will.

 

[anniemart]

When one is with God, walking with God, talking with walk, he is likely to follow God’s will; however, he sometimes does not know any differences between his will and God’s will. He should then pray and be patient - that would be his first step going to the direction of following God’s will.

Hi Water,

Individually, we all have the option of doing what we know is right or opting to do what isn’t because it’s the more attractive option and in the end probably the selfish one. This being so, what when you are at the mercy of another because the outcome is based on *his determination of what option to follow. *

How does one determine if God’s will was followed or not? Is it all subjective in nature based on whether one considers the result unpleasant? I would appreciate your thoughts…and anyone else who might have a thought to offer .

 

[baltobetsy]

How does one determine if God’s will was followed or not?

Well, anniemart, I see God’s will in two ways - what He directly wills and what He permits. A lot of stuff that results from our free will falls under what God permits.

OTOH, I once spoke with a priest in confession about not having done what I perceived as God’s will, and forcing God to go to Plan B. The priest told me that, of course, God knew all along that it would be Plan B, and that may have been better in the end, anyway, and perhaps His direct will after all.

Romans 8:28 - All things work together for the good.

Betsy

 

[anniemart]

Well, anniemart, I see God’s will in two ways - what He directly wills and what He permits. A lot of stuff that results from our free will falls under what God permits.

OTOH, I once spoke with a priest in confession about not having done what I perceived as God’s will, and forcing God to go to Plan B. The priest told me that, of course, God knew all along that it would be Plan B, and that may have been better in the end, anyway, and perhaps His direct will after all.

Romans 8:28 - All things work together for the good.

Betsy

Yes, I see your point. What He permits and Plan B opened up further my need to accept (contentedly) and not just to understand. Thank you Betsy

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Theologically speaking, God’s Will has two aspects. His Direct Will in all the good and positive things that happen, and His Permissive Will in all the evil, adverse and negative things that happen. God, it is said, Permits because He knows He can bring a greater good out of whatever has happened than the evil itself permitted to occur. This can be shrouded in mystery and darkness for us and tremendously difficult to accept - overhwelmingly difficult - and is a Work of Faith. Very often the greater good that emerges is our own response to that adversity.

We see God’s Permissive Will in Jesus’ death on Calvary. Jesus enters fully into the human condition through suffering raising the human condition - and suffering which we cannot avoid - to the holy and sacred in very real potential: “we make up in our own bodies what was lacking in the Sufferings of Christ”.

It can all sound very neat and compact in words…living our lives is never ever so neat and compact most often, nor was Calvary.

Blessings - Barb

 

[CatholicSamurai]

The previous post has good insights. I would like to echo my own thoughts.

Think of it this way. Everything is God’s will. Be it good or bad, it’s still God’s will. It’s how we conform to it that’s the challenge.

A simple example is the weather. When it’s sunny, thank God for he willed it. When it rains, what do some of us do? We complain. Instead, we should thank God because it is his will for it to rain as well.

But if we conform and humbly accept that everything is God’s will, it would be easy to find joy even if the event isn’t joyful. It’s our human emotions that sometimes get in the way. Remember that God sustains everything. Everything that God wills is always directed for your eternal good.

As far as free will goes, if we don’t have free will, love cannot exist. In order to love, we need the will to do this. Love is not floating in the clouds. No, this is what culture would want you to believe but it is not so. Love is always, always an act of the will.

How does this apply to God? God sees everything but at the same time, he still respects our will and allows us to choose. There are only two choices in it’s most basic form. Will you choose to love God or not?

Everything in our life is God’s will be it a death of a loved one, or the birth of a child. Our free will allows us to love or reject God.

 

[anniemart]

The previous post has good insights. I would like to echo my own thoughts.

Think of it this way. Everything is God’s will. Be it good or bad, it’s still God’s will. It’s how we conform to it that’s the challenge.

A simple example is the weather. When it’s sunny, thank God for he willed it. When it rains, what do some of us do? We complain. Instead, we should thank God because it is his will for it to rain as well.

But if we conform and humbly accept that everything is God’s will, it would be easy to find joy even if the event isn’t joyful. It’s our human emotions that sometimes get in the way. Remember that God sustains everything. Everything that God wills is always directed for your eternal good.

As far as free will goes, if we don’t have free will, love cannot exist. In order to love, we need the will to do this. Love is not floating in the clouds. No, this is what culture would want you to believe but it is not so. Love is always, always an act of the will.

How does this apply to God? God sees everything but at the same time, he still respects our will and allows us to choose. There are only two choices in it’s most basic form. Will you choose to love God or not?

Everything in our life is God’s will be it a death of a loved one, or the birth of a child. Our free will allows us to love or reject God.

Thank you for taking the time to respond…I have been carrying your thoughts with me for several days now.

I am certain that I will from time to time stumble along life’s pathway and that Our Father will be there to keep me from hitting face down. He journeys alongside each one of us; how often we tend to forget this…through the good and bad.

Everytime I have a question that I find hard to put into words, the Lord presents not just one, but several of my sisters and brothers to help me see through the haze.
Thank you, sincerely. (I’ve taken the liberty of printing this thread for reflection. )

God Blesses Us All Indeed!!