Many Questions About the Catholic Church and Abortion

[Dave_Noonan]

As a non-catholic I have many, many questions about the Catholic Church’s stance on abortion. I’m not trying to be antagonistic and I am truly curious about what people think. I’m not pro-choice or pro-abortion; so these are more questions about how the official church and individual Catholics look at this issue. I have many more, but I will start with these…pick one or all.

1. It seems like a lot of the active opposition to abortion comes from groups within the church (say, Priests for Life) rather than the institutional church (dioceses/archdioceses/USCCB). Given that the bishops haven’t shied away from spending money on issues like Prop 8, I don’t really understand why there’s not similar money spent on the abortion issue.
2. Why do Catholics seem to have no qualms about contributing monetarily to their health plan at work, which almost certainly is funding some/many abortions? Wouldn’t Catholics consider this material participation? If not, why not?
3. Why is so much of the condemnation directed to abortion clinicians and not to the mothers themselves who are seeking abortion? Aren’t they complicit somehow?

 

[nicolep]

As a non-catholic I have many, many questions about the Catholic Church’s stance on abortion. I’m not trying to be antagonistic and I am truly curious about what people think. I’m not pro-choice or pro-abortion; so these are more questions about how the official church and individual Catholics look at this issue. I have many more, but I will start with these…pick one or all.

1. It seems like a lot of the active opposition to abortion comes from groups within the church (say, Priests for Life) rather than the institutional church (dioceses/archdioceses/USCCB). Given that the bishops haven’t shied away from spending money on issues like Prop 8, I don’t really understand why there’s not similar money spent on the abortion issue.
2. Why do Catholics seem to have no qualms about contributing monetarily to their health plan at work, which almost certainly is funding some/many abortions? Wouldn’t Catholics consider this material participation? If not, why not?
3. Why is so much of the condemnation directed to abortion clinicians and not to the mothers themselves who are seeking abortion? Aren’t they complicit somehow?

1. The Church is very much structured. Each diocese has a Pro-Life office. You might hear about “Priests for Life” more, but there is participation at the diocesan level. Money is being spent on the abortion issue.
2. So, instead of taking employee benefits that help me care for myself, I should not take option because it MAY provide abortion funding? That’s not reasonable. I have a need for health care. No, it’s not material participation. We simply cannot control how money is spent once it leaves our hands. I have to get groceries. If the only grocery store in town uses my money for an evil, there’s little I can do. I could go to another store forty miles away, but there’s no guarantee that store won’t do something evil. Once the money has left my pocket, I cannot control how it’s spent.
3. Of course they are complicit. There are volunteers that stand outside abortion clinics and pray with the women/girls. We all pray for them.

Just because it’s not documented heavily in the news, doesn’t mean it doesn’t occur.

 

[Dave_Noonan]

1. The Church is very much structured. Each diocese has a Pro-Life office. You might hear about “Priests for Life” more, but there is participation at the diocesan level. Money is being spent on the abortion issue.
2. So, instead of taking employee benefits that help me care for myself, I should not take option because it MAY provide abortion funding? That’s not reasonable. I have a need for health care. No, it’s not material participation. We simply cannot control how money is spent once it leaves our hands. I have to get groceries. If the only grocery store in town uses my money for an evil, there’s little I can do. I could go to another store forty miles away, but there’s no guarantee that store won’t do something evil. Once the money has left my pocket, I cannot control how it’s spent.
3. Of course they are complicit. There are volunteers that stand outside abortion clinics and pray with the women/girls. We all pray for them.

Just because it’s not documented heavily in the news, doesn’t mean it doesn’t occur.

Thanks. So do Catholics ever try to challenge their health plans at work to eliminate abortion coverage? This may also be something that happens all the time, but I just never hear about it.

 

[cathoichelp]

Technically speaking the church could loose its non profit status if it directly gave money to the opposition of prop 8 or abortion or any legislation -
a “church” w non profit status is not suppose to use funds to support of oppose political agendas -

 

[1ke]

It seems like a lot of the active opposition to abortion comes from groups within the church (say, Priests for Life) rather than the institutional church (dioceses/archdioceses/USCCB). Given that the bishops haven’t shied away from spending money on issues like Prop 8, I don’t really understand why there’s not similar money spent on the abortion issue.

I don’t think this is at all accurate. I think it is a lack of familiarity on your part with all of the various pro-life ministries and outreach of the Catholic Church.

1. Why do Catholics seem to have no qualms about contributing monetarily to their health plan at work, which almost certainly is funding some/many abortions? Wouldn’t Catholics consider this material participation? If not, why not?

Remote material cooperation at most. And, remote material cooperation is not inherently immoral.

1. Why is so much of the condemnation directed to abortion clinicians and not to the mothers themselves who are seeking abortion? Aren’t they complicit somehow?

Certainly. And, automatic excommunication for Catholics who have abortions is certainly condemnation.

But, the healing power of Christ is always front and center. So, we want to help mothers heal and reconcile with God if they have already had an abortion and we want to give them material and spiritual support if they have not yet had an abortion.

 

[nicolep]

Thanks. So do Catholics ever try to challenge their health plans at work to eliminate abortion coverage? This may also be something that happens all the time, but I just never hear about it.

Absolutely! Thankfully, my plan doesn’t cover abortion services at all. Now, the insurance company has plans that offer that coverage. So indirectly, my money can pay for them. As far as Catholics challenging it,yes, we do so a lot. We want all abortions and abortion funding to end.

 

[Dave_Noonan]

Absolutely! Thankfully, my plan doesn’t cover abortion services at all. Now, the insurance company has plans that offer that coverage. So indirectly, my money can pay for them. As far as Catholics challenging it,yes, we do so a lot. We want all abortions and abortion funding to end.

So what do you think you will do if these plans to offer abortion coverage at work come to fruition? Would you seek coverage outside of work? Would you lobby to change the coverage to exclude abortion?

 

[nicolep]

So what do you think you will do if these plans to offer abortion coverage at work come to fruition? Would you seek coverage outside of work? Would you lobby to change the coverage to exclude abortion?

No, I wouldn’t seek coverage outside of work. My insurance is 100% paid for by my employer. Group benefits are far superior to individual plans. I would do my best, in talking with the owners, to have abortion excluded from coverage.

Just FYI, I’m an insurance agent. I can tell you abortion will never be covered on one of our plans as long as the current ownership is in place.

 

[Beth_Cecilia]

1. It seems like a lot of the active opposition to abortion comes from groups within the church (say, Priests for Life) rather than the institutional church (dioceses/archdioceses/USCCB). Given that the bishops haven’t shied away from spending money on issues like Prop 8, I don’t really understand why there’s not similar money spent on the abortion issue.

The USCCB most certainly does speak out on abortion.
usccb.org/prolife/issues/abortion/index.shtml

They even rescinded their support for the recent Health care law, prior to its passing and after a lot of very active lobbying, because the legislators refused to codify Hyde and keep abortion funding out of the law.

There are bishops at the March for life every year. Our leaders spend a lot of time and money in opposition to abortion.

1. Why do Catholics seem to have no qualms about contributing monetarily to their health plan at work, which almost certainly is funding some/many abortions? Wouldn’t Catholics consider this material participation? If not, why not?

I suspect most Catholics do not know whether or not they are indirectly funding abortion in this way. There is disagreement among Catholics as to whether or not it ought to be considered material participation.

1. Why is so much of the condemnation directed to abortion clinicians and not to the mothers themselves who are seeking abortion? Aren’t they complicit somehow?

Of course the women are complicit. However, the women are quite often victims. They think they do not have other choices. If we are going to help them, we have to treat them with respect. A Catholic does not choose between loving a baby and loving her child. Treating the women as criminals denies their fears and it also gives us little chance to protect their children. Would you go to someone for help who ignored your troubles and thought you were evil?

Abortionists have no similar excuse, and are often in it for money. There are a few who have more altruistic reasons for their work, they believe in their work. Even they are not victims.

 

[aicirt]

To the OP: Would it be a correct assumption to say that your Christian church has a pro-choice/pro-abortion policy? How do you feel about it?
I’ve read that up until the 1930s, all churches were against abortion and contraceptive devices. Also some Prostestant chuches change their stand depending on the vote that year. Doesn’t seem to be a clear theology now and yet there was one at the turn of the century. How did that happen?

The other night on EWTN, a priest related his notice of a sign in FL forbiding the killing of any turtle eggs as it was against state and federal law. He thought it was ironic that the same federal law promotes the killing of human babies. He does make a good point, don’t you think?

 

[Dave_Noonan]

I suspect most Catholics do not know whether or not they are indirectly funding abortion in this way. There is disagreement among Catholics as to whether or not it ought to be considered material participation.

I would VERY much like to read a discussion about this debate/discussion/disagreement if you or someone else could direct me to this information–or any Catholic discussion of this particular topic, actually. I am very curious what the Catholic Church has to say on this issue. I have just never seen anything about it.

This question arose for me during the health care plan debate. The U.S. bishops spoke out against the national health care bill not containing adequate protections against abortion coverage (and rightly so) but I’ve never heard a similar objection from them or from anyone else to private health care plans covering abortions or how those plans/abortions are funded. Although perhaps it’s not exactly the same thing, the situation seems very similar to me–money being taken from people; part of which will inevitably go to fund abortion. I also know first hand how difficult it is for companies to find coverage that excludes abortions–if it’s even an issue for the company–and I suspect that most companies don’t even give it a second thought. Maybe I have simply missed these discussions; and I will readily admit that most of what I know about Catholics and the abortion issue I have garnered from listening to the Teresa Tomeo show on the radio–so maybe that’s not the best source.

 

[Dave_Noonan]

To the OP: Would it be a correct assumption to say that your Christian church has a pro-choice/pro-abortion policy? How do you feel about it?
I’ve read that up until the 1930s, all churches were against abortion and contraceptive devices. Also some Prostestant chuches change their stand depending on the vote that year. Doesn’t seem to be a clear theology now and yet there was one at the turn of the century. How did that happen?

The other night on EWTN, a priest related his notice of a sign in FL forbiding the killing of any turtle eggs as it was against state and federal law. He thought it was ironic that the same federal law promotes the killing of human babies. He does make a good point, don’t you think?

No, my church is against abortion as am I–sorry I thought I had made that clear in the O.P.

 

[1ke]

I would VERY much like to read a discussion about this debate/discussion/disagreement if you or someone else could direct me to this information–or any Catholic discussion of this particular topic, actually. I am very curious what the Catholic Church has to say on this issue. I have just never seen anything about it.

I don’t know why anyone thinks there is disagreement on this. The concept of remote material cooperation is well defined in Catholic moral teaching.

This question arose for me during the health care plan debate. The U.S. bishops spoke out against the national health care bill not containing adequate protections against abortion coverage (and rightly so) but I’ve never heard a similar objection from them or from anyone else to private health care plans covering abortions or how those plans/abortions are funded.

I believe it is a mistake to think that the Church speaks out on every nuance of every subject under the sun. It simply isn’t possible.

The Church leads by example, excluding abortion coverage from it’s own health plans and battling against laws that would require such coverage in private plans, and of course battling against public funding for such. The teaching on abortion is clear. Any person with sense can extend that to abortion coverage in health care plans.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Technically speaking the church could loose its non profit status if it directly gave money to the opposition of prop 8 or abortion or any legislation -
a “church” w non profit status is not suppose to use funds to support of oppose political agendas -

“The Opposition of Prop 8” supports gay “marriage.”

What are you talking about?

 

[manualman]

Dave, You can drive yourself utterly insane if you get too worried about all the ways you might be committing remote material cooperation with evil. If you are paying US taxes, you are in part funding Planned Parenthood which absolutely uses that funding to pay the overhead that allows them to provide ‘cheap’ abortions.

Health Care is the same way. The bishops were fighting against a federal mandate to expand the extent to which US citizens are forced to remotely cooperate with evil. We lost, but that doesn’t mean we’ll be morally compelled to withold our taxes. But it DOES chap my hide!

 

[cathoichelp]

“The Opposition of Prop 8” supports gay “marriage.”

What are you talking about?

that should say lose not loose -
and I think you understood the point of the post which is the church can not use funds to support or oppose legislation -
It should have read in support or opposition of prop 8 -
sorry for the typos

 

[Dave_Noonan]

“The Opposition of Prop 8” supports gay “marriage.”

What are you talking about?

Sorry, I meant support for Prop 8.

 

[Dave_Noonan]

Dave, You can drive yourself utterly insane if you get too worried about all the ways you might be committing remote material cooperation with evil. If you are paying US taxes, you are in part funding Planned Parenthood which absolutely uses that funding to pay the overhead that allows them to provide ‘cheap’ abortions.

Health Care is the same way. The bishops were fighting against a federal mandate to expand the extent to which US citizens are forced to remotely cooperate with evil. We lost, but that doesn’t mean we’ll be morally compelled to withold our taxes. But it DOES chap my hide!

Right. But I think the difference in the case of private/corporate funding of abortion versus public funding is that there are things that could still be done by the individual that would be legal and have at least a chance of being effective: 1) bringing up the issue where people work and pressuring companies not to cover abortions, 2) opting out of the company health care system and 3) not investing in companies that cover abortion in their company health plans.

I agree that our moral options regarding public funding are fairly limited. I don’t, however, think this is the case with corporate funding.