Marian Apparitions

[coco2]

I saw an interview on the Late Late Show in Ireland (generic audience) with one of the visionaries from Medjugore named Vicka just a few weeks ago…she is one of the ones who still receives visions of the Blessed Mother everyday. I can honestly say that I have NEVER SEEN ANYONE who radiates joy like that woman. I guess if I saw the Blessed Mother every day for 30 years I would be very happy too! You just felt it from watching her and listening to her. I can’t imagine that joy coming from the evil one…very impressive. Even the generic audience which you can imagine would be coming from a different place than the people on this forum…were unbelievably respectful as she was interviewed as was the host of the show. If I can find the link, I will post it…

I saw the same show, but had a completely different take on it than you did. She talked on and on, but never once mentioned the main messages from Mary. The host kept trying to ask her questions, but she would cut him off and want to just keep describing the first time she saw Mary. There was no actual “interview”. She sounded like she was just giving the same spiel she has been giving for years. She smiles nonstop, which is just something she does, at least almost every picture or video I have seen of her, she is smiling constantly, not so with all of the visionaries.

Like I said before, I am going to have to wait on the Church’s ruling on Medjugorje before I surrender completely to it. “Something” is going on there, for sure; but what that something is, I don’t know. I used to believe this was for certain Mary until my very faithful aunt came back from Medjugorje saying she felt it was all wrong, and now after my own research, I am hesitant. Where I live, people who go to Medjugorje came back and still see miracles with the sun that no one else here can see. Some have locutions, see angels, and goodness knows what else. I’m trying to figure out if there are actual real miracles because of Medjugorje or just miracles because of the people’s faith. I have actually become a wreck over this with so much anxiety about it, because I go to church with these people.

 

[ClayPots47]

I’ve been following Medjugorje for about 3 years now, I went to Alabama a few years ago. There are a lot of untruths on this thread about the subject. I will not take time to discuss what they are, but will give you the link to the website. (URL removed because it promotes an unapproved apparition, which this board does not allow).

Untruths? I beg to differ… Hey, I can post links too, but I’m not going to bother. Trust me when I say that there is a lot about that place in Alabama that is downright disturbing. I doubt the victims of that cult that left it made up their stories.

You can learn a lot about Medjugorje at this site. Pray and ask God to help you discern what you read instead of believing what people are saying.

And I have been doing exactly that, I’ve been reading Michael Davies free for download book, Father Philip Pavich and the website of the Third Order Carmelite who has scans and links to Vatican and Franciscan documentation that back up exactly what Father Pavich and Michael Davies have been saying. Even before reading these, I was having my doubts, mostly because many of these alleged apparitions violate the teachings of mystical Theology, which I was a serious student of. This is something that Father Benedict Groeschel himself has stated. He wrote a book about it, recommended reading for anybody wondering, “A Still Small Voice”.

Right now I am familiarizing myself with learning more about Adele Brice and the apparitions in Wisconsin that were approved by the Church in December 8, 2010. And re-acquainting myself with Fatima.

 

[ClayPots47]

Thank you Thomas for the clarification. I agree with you Faustina we should discuss approved apparitions. So how do I go about getting a brown scapular blessed? I already have one, although I’m not sure whether it is blessed or not, I got it when I was much younger. Do they require certain devotions to wear them?

You need to be enrolled in it, this is something any priest can do. You are being enrolled in the Confraternity of the Brown Scapular of Mount Carmel, it is a miniature of the Scapular of their habit. I was enrolled in Catholic school, the scapulars were part of our First Communion kits; which also had rosary beads and missals. The girls kit came in a plastic purse. I still have my missal, along with my dress and veil from then. The scapular need not be blessed, but you can have it blessed as well. Once you are enrolled, you share in all the prayers of the Carmelite order and the Confraternity. The Blue Army of Fatima or Fatima Family Apostolate have resources on the scapular and related devotions.

 

[ClayPots47]

I have actually become a wreck over this with so much anxiety about it, because I go to church with these people.

I feel for you, because I know from personal experience the effects this has had on me. I think you might find Michael Davies book to be of great help, he has since passed away, but this issue was so important to him, that his foundation made the book available as a free download. It is in PDF format. I also know it difficult to deal with “those people”. I’ve recommended the book to other followers who were conflicted regarding Med, I know of three that have personally ceased following/believing in them as a result of that book, Fr Pavich, and Fr Groeschel (who gave a talk on visions/apparitions and discernment at a Catholic seminary and university in my former town in MD). Some actually walked out in anger during Groeschel’s talk, what sealed the nail in the coffin for me was the mean-spirited comments made by those present about Groeschel. A true follower of Mary would never say what some of these people were saying in regards to a priest. I was appalled! The truth is that he was exactly correct on the teachings of the Church theologians and Doctor’s regarding Mystical Theology, a subject which much of the faithful are ignorant about. Having read Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, Francisco De Osuna;s “Third Spiritual Alphabet”. and Garrigou-Lagrange’s “The Three Ages of the Spiritual Life”; I knew where Groeschel was coming from. I hope and pray you can find peace.

 

[coco2]

I feel for you, because I know from personal experience the effects this has had on me. I think you might find Michael Davies book to be of great help, he has since passed away, but this issue was so important to him, that his foundation made the book available as a free download. It is in PDF format. I also know it difficult to deal with “those people”. I’ve recommended the book to other followers who were conflicted regarding Med, I know of three that have personally ceased following/believing in them as a result of that book, Fr Pavich, and Fr Groeschel (who gave a talk on visions/apparitions and discernment at a Catholic seminary and university in my former town in MD). Some actually walked out in anger during Groeschel’s talk, what sealed the nail in the coffin for me was the mean-spirited comments made by those present about Groeschel. A true follower of Mary would never say what some of these people were saying in regards to a priest. I was appalled! The truth is that he was exactly correct on the teachings of the Church theologians and Doctor’s regarding Mystical Theology, a subject which much of the faithful are ignorant about. Having read Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, Francisco De Osuna;s “Third Spiritual Alphabet”. and Garrigou-Lagrange’s “The Three Ages of the Spiritual Life”; I knew where Groeschel was coming from. I hope and pray you can find peace.

I would be interested in finding out what Fr. Groeschel had to say and why it made people angry. Was he specifically using medjugorje as an example? Should I just look up Mystical theology?

 

[pablope]

I feel for you, because I know from personal experience the effects this has had on me. I think you might find Michael Davies book to be of great help, he has since passed away, but this issue was so important to him, that his foundation made the book available as a free download. It is in PDF format. I also know it difficult to deal with “those people”. I’ve recommended the book to other followers who were conflicted regarding Med, I know of three that have personally ceased following/believing in them as a result of that book, Fr Pavich, and Fr Groeschel (who gave a talk on visions/apparitions and discernment at a Catholic seminary and university in my former town in MD). Some actually walked out in anger during Groeschel’s talk, what sealed the nail in the coffin for me was the mean-spirited comments made by those present about Groeschel. A true follower of Mary would never say what some of these people were saying in regards to a priest. I was appalled! The truth is that he was exactly correct on the teachings of the Church theologians and Doctor’s regarding Mystical Theology, a subject which much of the faithful are ignorant about. Having read Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, Francisco De Osuna;s “Third Spiritual Alphabet”. and Garrigou-Lagrange’s “The Three Ages of the Spiritual Life”; I knew where Groeschel was coming from. I hope and pray you can find peace.

Clay,

I did donwload the ebook and it is very interesting reading. I came across the section about one of the visionaries seeing the devil dressed ala-Mary. Very chillng.

Anyway, I want to thank for your response to my PM through this thread. I was going to send you a thank you note via PM but your inbox if full.

 

[FaustinaClare]

I too have read the book by Davies. I have also read books in favor of medjugorje. I side with Davies. The devil is so smart and cunning. He can also be beautiful as other saints in the past who had visions of him have stated. He can trick very experienced and knowledgeable Christians. Don’t use the fact that someone “appeared” good as your only proof to believe in any apparition. I trust the Church wholeheartedly. I know why they are waiting to give a decision. Medjugorje gives me the creeps HOWEVER Our lady of Kibeho, Our lady of Lourdes, Fatima all give me joy and peace.

Scapulars: I had my scapular blessed by the Bishop in my mother’s diocese. I am also an aspirant in the 3rd Order Discalced Carmelites. You can be invested without being a part of an order. There is the Sabbatine Privilege given to those who devoutly wear the brown scapular. You will be saved from the fires of Hell and your stay in Purgatory will be shortened and you will be released on the Saturday after your death.

1. wear the scapular continuously
2. observe chastity according to your state in life
   3.Recite daily the Little Office of the BVM (we say the Divine Office as Discalced)
   or observe fasts of the church together with abstaining from meat on wed/sat
   or say 5 decades of the Holy Rosary daily
   ** or** w/permission from priest substitute some other good work

I heard somewhere else you can say 7 Our Father’s, Hail Mary’s and Glory Be’s a day to get this priviledge as well. Not sure the veracity of this.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Medjugorje 1st let me state I’m not a follower to any degree. I just don’t get a great feeling about this, and if anything I have, learned to listen to my inner voice. I hope I’, wrong about it.

Fatima is in a complete different league. If you go to You Tube and google fatima {yes I know you-tube} there is a two part series which was originally aired on the Travel Channel, History, and Unsolved Mysteries. Its a good 2-part series and if you haven’t read in depth on the topic its fair by all acounts,

You may also want to look into the Blue Army. They have a lot of info on Fatima, books, dvds, etc. Matter of fact I believe they are sponsering a trip their as I type. Saint Padre Pio was one of the first to join and follow the Blue Army.

The Coptic appearance in Zeitoun Egypt is another I find absolutely amazing.

These two apparitions in particular I find without a doubt stunning.

1st off to speak Fatima, never in known History has a Miracle been promised by God {well the Blessed Mother through the Holy Spirit} then the Miracle was predicted, dated and then happened on schedule? IF you don’t believe in in the omnipotence of God after that? I can’t imagine what will convince you?

Let alone healings, witness accounts, predictions which occured.

The account of Zeitoun is just as incredible. The PHD accounts who witnessed the healings are on record. They can’t be explained and themself are witness to an amazing event.

The Sun Danced at Fatima, by Fr Pelliter is a good book you could probly grab at the library by you. Its not the newest but he firt wrote in the 50’s then did an update in the mid-80’s. Its a Good Read.

The Blessed Mother has a profound affect on this century through Her son wish for Her. The First Five Saturdays of the year in reparation of sinners, I couldn’t think of a better devotion to involve oneself in.

Its up to you, as you read and Pray the Rosary and follow the Catholic Church and where Jesus and Mary lead you, I’m positive your devotion will increase.

God Bless, Gary

 

[ClayPots47]

I would be interested in finding out what Fr. Groeschel had to say and why it made people angry. Was he specifically using medjugorje as an example? Should I just look up Mystical theology?

I’m paraphrasing here, but essentially this is what he said at the talk: "physical apparitions only occur among children and young adults. Adults who are properly growing in their prayer lives experience God interiorly. The numerous alleged apparitions to mature adults are contrary to Mystical Theology in that these adults, who should have advanced on the road to Christian Perfection, are still consuming the pablum of children.

I believe he is correct. Not one apparition has been approved in which the visionary was older than young adulthood, the majority of visionaries are children. The apparitions in Med should have stopped once the visionaries passed 30 or so. Lucy the Seer of Fatima, later received interior messages, in accordance with Mystical Theology teaching, as she grew in the interior life. Recall that her last apparition from Our Lady occurred while she was still a young adult.

If you aren’t familiar with Mystical Theology, I wouldn’t jump into it. But Father Groeschel wrote a book for the everyday layman on discerning such things, “A Still Small Voice”.

 

[ClayPots47]

Clay,

I did donwload the ebook and it is very interesting reading. I came across the section about one of the visionaries seeing the devil dressed ala-Mary. Very chillng.

Anyway, I want to thank for your response to my PM through this thread. I was going to send you a thank you note via PM but your inbox if full.

I’m new to this forum, and didn’t realize the PM box was full, the forum doesn’t allow much space it seems. Anyway, it’s empty now. I was glued to the book, read it mostly in one sitting, it confirmed my suspicions and cemented my decision to walk away from it all.

 

[JustinT]

I’ve been following Medjugorje for about 3 years now, I went to Alabama a few years ago. There are a lot of untruths on this thread about the subject. I will not take time to discuss what they are, but will give you the link to the website. www . medjugorje . com.

Please read bellow very disturbing information about Caritas of Birmingham, which is behind the website that you provided. Many consider that this organization is a cult. EWTN, residing just few miles from there, repeatedly discouraged people from going there. In January 2011 Dr. Geraghty of EWTN even wrote that “group sounds to me very much like a cult”.

1. Caritas of Birmingham and “A Friend of Medjugorje” Terry Colafrancesco, Alabama
2. A Friend of Medjugorje (Terry Colafrancesco) and his group “Caritas of Birmingham” - a cult?
3. Gravely disturbing testimonies of former long term residents of Caritas of Birmingham
4. Excerpts from shocking testimonies of former members of Caritas of Birmingham ‘under the sole dictates’ of self-styled „A Friend of Medjugorje“ (Terry Colafrancesco) regarding scandalous fleecing of gullible people and money related deceptions
5. Position of Eternal Word Television Network (EWTN) and Mother Angelica on Caritas of Birmingham, Alabama