Marian Dogma

  • Thread starter Thread starter eelpis
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
E

eelpis

Guest
Would you, as a traditional Catholic, be happy if the pope defined Mary Coredemptrix and Mediatrix of all grace?

Is there a difference between how traditionalists and other Catholics regard this matter?
 
As a traditional Catholic, I have no problem with the meaning behind the titles, but I do have a problem with the titles themselves. Even though the prefix “co” means with in latin, it also implies an equality between the Virgin and the Lord. The title could mislead non-Catholics and even some Catholics to believe that the Church has exhalted the Virgin to an equal level with her Son, which of course is false.

I have no problem with the dogma, but I think we need to come up with new titles which more accurately express the true meaning.

We should do all we can to increase understanding of the Sacred Deposit of Faith, while at the same time eliminating confusion. The title Co-Redemptrix could potentially be confusing to many people. We should do all we can to avoid this.
 
Actually the Co- in the title means Mary co-operated with Jesus in His work of Redemption. Not as an equal but as the instrument of God’s Will. That just needs to be clarified in the dogma, I think. 😉
 
Actually the Co- in the title means Mary co-operated with Jesus in His work of Redemption. Not as an equal but as the instrument of God’s Will.
Click to expand...
I know the true meaning of the prefix “Co.” However, in english, this could also be interpreted as implying an equality between the Blessed Lady and the Redeemer.

We know that there is nothing really wrong with the titles, but I am also aware that they may mislead and confuse people.
 
IMHO, the reasons given from the 3rd century onward supporting the title far outweigh any mundane concerns of those who would deny her role as dictated by the Will of God.
 
I_Believe said:
IMHO, the reasons given from the 3rd century onward supporting the title far outweigh any mundane concerns of those who would deny her role as dictated by the Will of God.
Click to expand...
Quite right.

So every generation or so in this atmosphere of false-ecumenism will force us to come up with a whole new vocabulary in order to lay to rest the fears in the minds of non-Catholics? Do we question our ability and the ability of our Teaching Church to catechize the faithful nowadays?
 
🙂
eelpis said:
Would you, as a traditional Catholic, be happy if the pope defined Mary Coredemptrix and Mediatrix of all grace?

Is there a difference between how traditionalists and other Catholics regard this matter?
Click to expand...
The title of Co-Redemptrix is a no brainer. It sounds fancy but it simply means that Mary cooperated in a singular way with the Lord in our redemption. No more, no less. I take issue with the title of mediatrix of all grace because it implies that God does not dispense His grace but through the hands of Mary. Since this is not based in Scripture nor has it always and everywhere been held in the Church, I don’t see how it could be part of the deposit of faith. But I don’t have a problem with it as a theological opinion. Of course this is just my two cents as a lay person 🙂
 
RyanML said:
🙂

The title of Co-Redemptrix is a no brainer. It sounds fancy but it simply means that Mary cooperated in a singular way with the Lord in our redemption. No more, no less. I take issue with the title of mediatrix of all grace because it implies that God does not dispense His grace but through the hands of Mary. Since this is not based in Scripture nor has it always and everywhere been held in the Church, I don’t see how it could be part of the deposit of faith. But I don’t have a problem with it as a theological opinion. Of course this is just my two cents as a lay person 🙂
Click to expand...
Actually, Mediatrix of all graces is a Catholic dogma and by not accepting it as such you’re in the area of heresy. Just to warn you.
 
points up to my post I edited it. Turns out I was wrong about the Mediatrix of all graces being a dogma. It’s actually a Catholic doctrine. Sorry for the confusion.
 
Nickkname said:
points up to my post I edited it. Turns out I was wrong about the Mediatrix of all graces being a dogma. It’s actually a Catholic doctrine. Sorry for the confusion.
Click to expand...
For all practical purposes, there is no difference.

In other words, if it is a doctrine it is a teaching of the church, and to the folks in the pews the distinction is academic.

Whether it is true or not is a different matter.
 
Hesychios said:
For all practical purposes, there is no difference.

In other words, if it is a doctrine it is a teaching of the church, and to the folks in the pews the distinction is academic.

Whether it is true or not is a different matter.
Click to expand...
As an Orthodox Christian, what is your view of Our Lady’s mediation and her role in salvation history? 🙂
 
RyanML said:
As an Orthodox Christian, what is your view of Our Lady’s mediation and her role in salvation history? 🙂
Click to expand...
She is highly esteemed. Her place is as a heroine and we praise her for it. We value her prayers for us which we assume to be highly effective.

I would say that all true saints can be co- mediators of all types of Grace. Even sinners can be instruments of God, and thus mediators in a sense.

But all of this must take into account that there is only One true Mediator between God and humankind, and that is Christ, we can only be His instruments. That goes for the Theotokos as much as anyone else.
 
Hesychios said:
She is highly esteemed. Her place is as a heroine and we praise her for it. We value her prayers for us which we assume to be highly effective.

I would say that all true saints can be co- mediators of all types of Grace. Even sinners can be instruments of God, and thus mediators in a sense.

But all of this must take into account that there is only One true Mediator between God and humankind, and that is Christ, we can only be His instruments. That goes for the Theotokos as much as anyone else.
Click to expand...
This is very true! St. Louis de Montfort, one of the Church’s great Marian saints, said that next to Jesus Christ, Our Lady was less than an atom, and without Him, she would be nothing and could do nothing. I must say that I appreciate the Orthodox devotion to the Theotokos. It seems very well balanced. I don’t know a whole lot about Marian devotion in Orthodoxy, but it doesn’t seem like it’s taken to extremes as much as may be seen among Roman Catholic faithful.
 
RyanML said:
This is very true! St. Louis de Montfort, one of the Church’s great Marian saints, said that next to Jesus Christ, Our Lady was less than an atom, and without Him, she would be nothing and could do nothing. I must say that I appreciate the Orthodox devotion to the Theotokos. It seems very well balanced. I don’t know a whole lot about Marian devotion in Orthodoxy, but it doesn’t seem like it’s taken to extremes as much as may be seen among Roman Catholic faithful.
Click to expand...
Hi RyanML,

I would like to ask you what you mean by Marian Devotion “taken to extremes as much as may be seen among Roman Catholic faithful.” Are you referring to the Dogmas themselves, or are you referring to unapproved excesses? And if it is the latter, could you refer to what kinds of excesses?

thank you for your help,

maurin
 
I’d assume Ryan is referring to hyperbole in spiritual writings and the intense excessive devotions of some Catholics, like saying the Rosary is mandatory for salvation.
 
Nickkname said:
I’d assume Ryan is referring to hyperbole in spiritual writings and the intense excessive devotions of some Catholics, like saying the Rosary is mandatory for salvation.
Click to expand...
I was not aware that some say that “the Rosary is mandatory for salvation.”

What type of ‘hyperbole in spritual writings’ and which devotions of some Catholics are excessive, in your opinion?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top