Marian dogmas: important and essential for our salvation?

[Gabriel_of_12]

Mary is necessary for salvation;

It is not contested among Christians that God saves us by his Grace. The Angel Gabriel names the Virgin bride “full of grace”.

God chose Mary by His Grace bestowed upon her to be born of her, in order to bring His saving salvation for the many. Thus God through Mary brings salvation to the world. Mary is necessary for salvation. Could God have chosen another avenue to bring His salvation to the world? Yes. The reality is God chose to be born of Mary for the salvation of souls.

Upon reading these posts I find an interesting misunderstanding always being formed in the consciousness of men. One main misunderstanding between how Jesus is the only one that can give salvation and how God works through creation so that His salvation can be reached by the lost, be it by “spittle mixed with mud” a touch of a cloak, handkerchief, obedience of a command by our blessed Mother when she speaks from the Gospels “Do what ever He tells you”.

A common misunderstanding here is revealed by how one first enters into the kingdom of God by His saving grace, in the “saving” waters of baptism, and the salvation of souls who are already in the Kingdom of God “working out their salvation with fear and trembling. I believe it needs to be made clear here when one speaks of salvation before entering the kingdom of God and those who are already in the Kingdom of God on earth. Making clear of ones position before and after salvation scenario, (which scripture speaks of) can help our separated brethren grasp the understanding of how and when God works in our humanity.

You see, Protestants believe God “saves” but cannot explain how God saves, thus “believe only” theologies get invented. Catholics on the other hand believe God “saves” and maintain the divine rites instituted by Christ on the “how God saves”. This how God saves our humanity always begin with the Blessed Virgin Mary, Thus Mary was and is necessary for our salvation.

That said, During Jesus Christ corpse dying on the cross, with His dying breathe dignifies His Mother with the title “Woman” (mother of all the living) and tells this new eve “behold your son”, as if to give all our humanity into her Motherly care for those whom He (Jesus) died for, beginning with His disciple John at the foot of the cross when Jesus turns to him and say’s “Behold Your Mother”.

Now that Jesus has given this title “Woman” to His blessed Mother and gave her to His Church. This is the “Woman” in heaven that the dragon could never taint with his sin and became angry with her. This dragon that old serpent the first Adam and Eve encountered and gave our humanity “the fall” now “wage war on the rest of her offspring are those who (saved) who keep God’s commandments and bear witness to Jesus Christ”, the second Adam (Jesus) and the second eve (Mary) the dragon could never defeat.

In essence, the blessed Virgin Mary is eternally necessary for our salvation for those who battle with the dragon, and she is necessary for the salvation of the lost as a “refuge for sinners”, because as the gospel foretell of her with the angels proclamation to “full of grace”, “The Lord is with you”. Because heaven has proclaimed this Truth to our humanity about the “Most blessed among woman”, are we to believe contrary to sacred scripture (or deny) that the Lord is not with Mary ever?

cont;

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

All the Gospel writers never separate Mary from the presence of Jesus including Paul. See Galatians 4:4. Mark 3:31 ff; 6:3, Matthew 1:16-23, 2:11, Luke 1:38, 48, 2:19, 51, 11:28, Luke also places her in Acts, praying for the formation of the Church when the holy Spirit comes upon “all” of them, John 2:1-11, 19:25, 19:26-27 and Revelations who portrays her as one who holds to her fidelity to God, faith, as the first servant par excellence who offers Jesus to us Rev. 12:1-17. This apostolic written and oral Tradition of Mary goes back to a buried inscription which dates back to the second century found under Saint Peter’s basilica which points that Mary was believed in as “Protectrix for the departed and their Mediatrix”. We don’t need to mention the volumes written by the early church fathers that looked to Mary as the new Eve.

Whether a believer or not, it is through Mary that she gives birth to Jesus Christ (co-redemtrix) for the salvation of our souls a refuge for sinners. In the Kingdom of God their eternally exists our Father, our King of kings and Lord of lords reigning with his Mother Queen in heaven as did every Davidic King on earth. Those who fear the Lord, find comfort in his (queen) Mothers graces before entering into the Shepherds presence who rules the nations with Iron Rod.

God chose Mary first among all creatures to reveal His humanity, those who give witness to Jesus with their martyrdom and lives go to Mary first who gives her son (Jesus) to His bride, and her son (Jesus) gives us His Mother.

The Church throughout history went to the Blessed Virgin Mary to reveal the True Jesus against heresies and heretics. She did not invent new doctrines, but revealed in a time what God had revealed from eternity.

Catholics consist of the full family of God which gets revealed from the true unity of the blessed Trinity, where we have an eternal Father, Mother, brother as adopted sons and daughters in the Kingdom of God. The Blessed Virgin Mary completes our humanity in the eternal family of God, where no member is lacking.

Thus, the Blessed Virgin Mary is necessary for salvation in the revealed doctrines from her Immaculate conceived humanity which can only be an avenue of our salvation to give birth to a divine child which never new sin, in her perpetual virginity because nothing is lacking in fidelity and faith in God who is “full of grace” so as to never prevent salvation from coming to our humanity in every age, in her Motherhood (Mother of God) as she gave birth raised the fully divine and fully human (incarnate God) “Emmanuel, God is with us”, who in her “assumption into heaven both body and soul”, proves to the world (that cannot prove her tomb or body relic anywhere) that God dwells with the human race, and gives us the promise and hope of our eternal salvation resurrection with Christ. 1Corithinians 15: 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in an instant, in the blink of an eye,…53 For that which is corruptible must clothe itself with incorruptibility, and that which is mortal must clothe itself with immortality. 54 And when this which is corruptible clothes itself with incorruptibility and this which is mortal clothes itself with immortality, then the word that is written shall come about: “Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?”

The Blessed Virgin Mary is not only necessary for our salvation, but she is the first witness of our hope in the second coming of the resurrection in her bodily and soul assumption.

Peace be with you

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

This story disturbs me greatly and made the fuzz on my neck stand to attention. So the image of the Son of God, the Saviour of the World, Jesus our Lord, hanging on the Cross wasn’t good enough to make a dent with these people, the holy prayers of an altar boy calling upon Christ’s blessings weren’t enough, but boy bring out the image of the Virgin Mary and that’ll do the trick. Is that essentially the moral of this story? This bothers me more than you can know!!!

And secondly why can’t praying to the Lord do great things for us and fight Islam and improve our country? Why Mary?

Schaick,
And I liked this story the best…about an American pilot shot down over Austria during WWII. He knew the people were Catholic although they were Nazi sympathizers. They found him. So he showed them his crucifix. It made no difference. Then he recited his altar boy prayers in Latin. They didn’t care. Then when he showed them his Mary medal, they then disarmed and saw him as brother and protected him from the Naziis…

I think praying the rosary and doing penance and Mary help us in our present time with Islam and impurity can do great good for our country.

By the way, Schaick, did you know that Mary as the Immaculate Conception is the Patroness of America???

 

[beehumble]

• Originally Posted by gurneyhalleck1 View Post
  Let me start by saying that I DO AFFIRM the dogmas of the Blessed Virgin Mary–the immaculate conception, assumption, perpetual virginity, all of it. I have NO problems with it whatsoever.

However, in my discussions with people who do disagree with me on these issues, the usual concern is "why is belief in Mary’s perpetual virginity or her immaculate nature or her being assumed into heaven essential for my salvation? Why anathemize people over these issues that are not salvific at all?"
I’d really like to have a discussion that answers that exact question.

Plus I’d like to impose a rule if I may. Please do not say, “because Holy Mother Church tells me so” or anything about the Magisterium or papacy. Why does the Church feel this is a salvation issue?

I’d love to hear people’s points of view on this. As stated, this isn’t about me. I already believe the dogmas. I’d just like a good discussion answering the bold question.

Thanks and blessings to all who post*

I will not attempt to address all the bolded above but will make a start. The Assumption of Blessed Mary is tied to the Immaculate Conception. I suspect the Church feels this: God cannot be ‘housed’ or contained in a vessel that is contaminated - i.e. blemished by sin.

From Divine Mercy in My Soul by St. Faustina we see an image presented of God’s Holiness, which has been know throughout the ages:
The first attribute which the Lord gave me to know is His holiness. His holiness is so great that all the Powers and Virtues tremble before Him. The pure spirits veil their faces and lose themselves in unending adoration, and with one single word they express the highest form of adoration; that is-Holy… The holiness of God is poured out upon the Church of God and upon every living soul in it, but not in the same degree. There are souls who are completely penetrated by God, and there are those who are barely alive.(Diary 180)

Once God became flesh within Mary’s womb, His nourishment, His sustenance, passed through her, so if she had ever known corruption God would end up being sustained by a substance (food, nutrients etc) contaminated by her bodily processes - a body and soul contaminated by sin.

This presents a contradiction that in a way negates the possibility of God becoming True man (which means born of a woman) UNLESS He can be sustained and housed in a sinless, pure vessel, that matches His holiness. So to argue against the Immaculate Conception is a subtle argument against the incarnation. God was and is always perfect; His vessel needed to be ‘always perfect’ too (which precludes Mary being purified once the angel spoke to her).

Next, from the Immaculate Conception principle above,Mary is sinless always, from her conception. So after Jesus rose from the dead, defeating death and opening heaven, why should not Mary be assumed into heaven body and soul right away? She had no sin to preclude it. To deny it is in a way a back door approach of questioning our being able to go to heaven at all. The Bible says the wages of sin is death - the corruption or rotting of the flesh comes from sin - If Mary had no sin (Immaculate Conception says so) then why could she not go immediately go to Heaven if the teachings of the Church on the Resurrection and the Heavenly reward are true?

So to deny these two dogmas is a subtle denial of the truths of the nature of God (His prefect everlasting Holiness ) and the nature of how He saved us and holds a place for us in Heaven. And these then could lead to our doubts in our faith and then not following it, thus falling off the path.

So we are told to follow it, to help us stay on the path and not wander into error that leads to perdition. So the Church is doing us a favor by making us adhere to these dogmas.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I’m still stuck on Kathleen’s story with my jaw hanging open from a few posts back. The crucifix of Christ wasn’t good enough? The prayers not good enough? But Mary was? Mary brought out the brotherhood of these folks but Christ couldn’t? I’m still struck and distrubed by that story. I hope we can discuss it further. Wow…I’m blown away…

I read it to my wife and she was shocked! What is Kathleen trying to say with that story?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Any infallible statement by the Holy Father entails anathemas to those who reject them

I had just posted that when I saw you also posted.

While I’m not going to look up the first two Marian Dogma’s, I’m pretty sure they also carry anathemas, however unlike these later two, they do reflect on Christ (the first affirms the prophecy of Isaiah that he would be born of a virgin, the second confirms that he is God).

 

[beehumble]

I’m still stuck on Kathleen’s story with my jaw hanging open from a few posts back. The crucifix of Christ wasn’t good enough? The prayers not good enough? But Mary was? Mary brought out the brotherhood of these folks but Christ couldn’t? I’m still struck and distrubed by that story. I hope we can discuss it further. Wow…I’m blown away…

I read it to my wife and she was shocked! What is Kathleen trying to say with that story?

I wouldn’t get oo humg up on anecdotal stories. It provides no background - maybe that piolt, for exmaple, said rosary after rosary every single day. God has granted that special graces would flow through that, and He has made it known (at Fatima for example) that He wants His mother glorified and so He does it - so maybe He glorified her by inspiring the Austrian folk to soften once they say the image of His mother - the grace flowed from the pilot’s prayers maybe. I do not know this and that is my point - we have no idea of all the details surrounding this story so we shouldn’t get too hung up on believeing it or not believeing it , or the details thereof.

I think I answered sufficiently your bolded question about be anatesized.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Jesus Christ, the Son of God and Saviour of the world, died for our sins. He is our redeemer, our bridge to the Father, co-equal with God the Father Almighty, rose from the dead, and saves our souls. He is our mediator before God, not Mary.

Mary is a creature, a created being like we are. Even if she is immaculate, she is a creature, albeit a holy one. Mary is not essential for our salvation or necessary. She played a huge role in delivering the one who IS our salvation, and we love her for it. I do. But she is not my salvation. Her sweet son is. Paul spells out for us over and over what we need for salvation as do the other epistles and Gospels. Mary is never mentioned as necessary. And Holy Orthodoxy never makes this point either.

Mary is necessary for salvation;

It is not contested among Christians that God saves us by his Grace. The Angel Gabriel names the Virgin bride “full of grace”.

cont;

 

[AnneElliot]

Mary is necessary for our Salvation. Without her, you have no Jesus. If you think you can embrace the Son without His mother you are mistaken.

 

[KathleenGee]

Hi Guerny,

I haven’t been able to fall asleep yet…yes, I was very surprised when I heard our pastor share the story about the American pilot in Austria.

I believed it because one of the great graces of Mary is that she makes the Catholic Church a family. Again, Mary is showing the need to help us in these times. We are living on the brink of annihilation.

Which brings me to share another shocker with you…I know the story. It might awaken you more.

But before that I think what is the greater importance is this: That we are called to love God with our whole soul, our whole mind, with all our strength. And to love God is to want to know more about Him. In my faith walk, I would say Mary was part of my latter stage of growth. I am thinking at this time the Holy Spirit is leading me to share about her. She is God’s mother. And to honor God is to honor Christ’s mother. To learn more about Mary and her rightful place is fulfilling the depths of calling us to know our faith more deeply. And without Mary, there would be no Jesus, no cross.

She lived a sorrowful life, anticipating the death of her son. I think I can safely say as a mother that there is no one else but Mary who suffered than any other creature the witness of seeing Jesus die on the cross. We simply cannot fairly compare the two.

Now to the other shocker. In the mid 1980’s, Fr Schindler, SJ, passed away. He and 7 other German Jesuit priests were in Hiroshima when the atomic bomb was dropped. He and the others survived while people all around them died or suffered the terrible and lethal effects of radiation.

Over 200 scientists studied the priests’ health and miraculous preservation from the blast. When asked what was the cause, the priests replied that they were living out the messages of Our Lady of Fatima…the daily rosary and penance.

Now we are not required in good conscience however, to believe in approved private apparations. But if Mary appears with the miracle of the sun in Portugal and asks Catholics specific requests, we are not forced to obey but we ought.

And when people ask if they are required to believe in the truths about Mary…that gradually came apparent in the Church through time, they ought to. One can say, I believe in this and that because I want to be saved. No, it won’t happen. But what is more honest is to say I am Catholic, I uphold the profession of my faith in the Creed, but there are aspects to it that I do not understand.

Then put what you don’t understand in God’ hands and let Him give you understanding in His time, and move on in the Lord.

 

[Edwin78]

Jesus Christ, the Son of God and Saviour of the world, died for our sins. He is our redeemer, our bridge to the Father, co-equal with God the Father Almighty, rose from the dead, and saves our souls. He is our mediator before God, not Mary.

Mary is a creature, a created being like we are. Even if she is immaculate, she is a creature, albeit a holy one. Mary is not essential for our salvation or necessary. She played a huge role in delivering the one who IS our salvation, and we love her for it. I do. But she is not my salvation. Her sweet son is. Paul spells out for us over and over what we need for salvation as do the other epistles and Gospels. Mary is never mentioned as necessary. And Holy Orthodoxy never makes this point either.

I have a few questions.

Was the cross needed for our salvation? How about the nails? The crown of thorns? The spear going through His side?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

“Without Mary” as an earlier poster stated, “you have no Jesus” being born to bring you salvation. This is fundamental understanding of how the Early Church Fathers revealed Jesus divinity and humanity through Mary’s humanity. Remove Mary from your equation and you don’t have Jesus giving you salvation.

Please don’t confuse today’s Orthodox not communion with each other and the Popes position with the Early Catholic Church from antiquity which consisted of both East and West in full communion with the Popes, prostestant views to Catholic theology from antiquity. Mary is held in very high esteem revealed from Jesus, sacred scripture and apostolic Traditions.

I agree with you no one goes to the Father except through Jesus, and no one can come to Jesus except through Mary. You are greatly mistaken to believe in a True Jesus without Mary being revealed by the early church councils to prove Jesus true identity as True God and True Man. Without Mary you gain no true understanding of what great price was paid for your salvation. To think you go directly to Jesus without knowing who He truly is, is placing the horse before the cart, you get know where, Mary points to her True son and reveals who Jesus is to us, then salvation comes by believing in Him from whom gave Him to you.

Coming to Christ, one does not need the full deposit of faith revealed to them, just Christ crucified suffices the knowledge into baptism. If one dares to get off the milk, and eat the meat of the gospels and consume the Word of God in the progression of understanding and faith in the mysteries of Jesus Christ. The Blessed Virgin Mary will always be there waiting to point you the way.

But if the test and trials of living a Christian life overburden you, you will find God calling on that name, which the angel Gabriel gave Mary; “My Grace is sufficient for you”, for who is given this name “full of Grace”? Mary. Jesus full of Grace and Truth, Mary is named “full of grace”. This revealed mystery from the gospels takes meat to understand, whereby those infants on the milk rely heavily on carnal understanding, and it is good for them to focus only on who saves them, and not how they are saved.

We have only touched the waters from the deep here, and have not entered them. No one argues that Jesus saves us, Mary answers the question? how.

Peace be with you

Jesus Christ, the Son of God and Saviour of the world, died for our sins. He is our redeemer, our bridge to the Father, co-equal with God the Father Almighty, rose from the dead, and saves our souls. He is our mediator before God, not Mary.

Mary is a creature, a created being like we are. Even if she is immaculate, she is a creature, albeit a holy one. Mary is not essential for our salvation or necessary. She played a huge role in delivering the one who IS our salvation, and we love her for it. I do. But she is not my salvation. Her sweet son is. Paul spells out for us over and over what we need for salvation as do the other epistles and Gospels. Mary is never mentioned as necessary. And Holy Orthodoxy never makes this point either.

 

[PhilipCal]

Your proposed rule really precludes discussion. So, in replying, I’m going to attempt to place your question in the perspective of the teaching authority of the Church, and essentially overrule your proposed restriction. Please forgive me.

The Doctrine of Papal Infallibility was promulgated by Pope Pius IX. It has been used only twice, both times ironically with regard to Our Blessed Mother. The same Pius IX defined the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception. Another Pius, in this case, Pope Pius XII, defined the Dogma of the Assumption of Mary in 1950.

As Catholics, we accede to Church Teaching by two means.
!) Religious submission: This grace allows us as Catholics to accept (submit to) the
genuine teaching authority of the Church. Even though one might have a personal
reservation about a particular teaching, he nevertheless submits to the Church’s
overall function and mandate (from Christ) to teach.

1. Assent of Faith. This is really the more important of the two, and allows us to accept
   an infallible pronouncement of the Holy Father, or the Bishops teaching in
   conjunction with the Holy Father. Both submission and assent are blessings of the
   Holy Spirit.

Our faith tradition requires that we either submit, or assent to the authentic teachings of the Church. Thus, from this perspective, belief in the Dogma(s) concerning the Blessed Mother would be essential for salvation.

Again, it’s quite possible,a person would have personal doubts or reservations concerning a Dogma/teaching. That’s not really the issue, so long as the required submission or assent of faith is rendered.

Once more, we’re viewing this from a totally Catholic perspective. Our Protestant friends would have us believe that none of what we’ve discussed concerning our Blessed Mother is required.

Hope this has helped a little.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

This is the ultimate no-brainer statement of all time. Of course Mary brought us Jesus and without her we wouldn’t have Him. That’s quite obvious. But the thread is not about whether we “need Mary.” That’s a given. The thread is about whether we need to believe certain things about her history in order to be saved. In other words, if I don’t believe she was assumed into heaven body and soul, I cannot be saved? The infallible statements about her by the popes make it clear these things must be accepted in order to be saved. I’m asking why and how this can be so.

Mary is necessary for our Salvation. Without her, you have no Jesus. If you think you can embrace the Son without His mother you are mistaken.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I just have one succinct question for you, Edwin—What the HECK is your point here? Duh?

I have a few questions.

Was the cross needed for our salvation? How about the nails? The crown of thorns? The spear going through His side?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

God is the same yesterday, today and forever more; It is not something new for God to have a woman bring life and or salvation to man.

The first womam God created Eve to usher in the offspring (life) of our humanity, **then comes Sarah **who miraculously gives birth to the promise child "Isaac who continued the saving plan of God who became head of the chosen people, Rachel’s beauty to Jacob typlified the beauty of Mary’s soul which captured the heart of God to bring about his saving plan in her, **Mariam the sister of Moses **saved him from the sure death from Pharoah, who also typlified Mary’s redemption role as one of the head leaders to lead God’s people across the Red Sea in her magnificent hymn of thanksgiving which mirrored Mary’s Canticle, **Deborah the prophetess and judge **of Israel was instrumental in binging about salvation to God’s people against their enemies who also records a canticle which prefigured Mary’s role in salvation to all of humanity, Judith who rallied God’s people and saved them from the monarch Holofernes who also gives a song of praise as an instrument of God’s to bring salvation to God’s people, Esther as queen of King Ahasureus saved God’s people from certain extermination.

All these foreshadowed what was to be the ultimate salvation brought about by a virgin woman for all of God’s people from every age and in every age to come the blessed virgin Mary.

Peace be with you

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Not at all. It simply asks that people explain WHY we need to believe these things without “because the pope said so” arguments. If the assumption and immaculate nature of Mary aid in my salvation, I want to know WHY and how? I want to know why I can’t be saved unless I accept these teachings?"

Hopefully you already read in my OP that I DO INDEED believe in these dogmas. I have no problem with them. But the requirements that we believe them related to salvation do puzzle me greatly and I’m not alone in that sentiment.

I’m not trying to tie hands, just get people to discuss this without a “cuz we have to” argument, which isn’t an argument at all for someone who is coming to the faith for the first time, for Protestants, for Orthodox, etc. A good apologist will show why this is wholesome, helpful, edifying, and ESSENTIAL without papal references, right? Surely as a Catholic apologist you can do so I would hope? If not, perhaps the Church shouldn’t impose such emphasis and requirements on the laity with these issues. Many folks think these are matters of pious opinion, not essential, and just speculative.

Your proposed rule really precludes discussion. So, in replying, I’m going to attempt to place your question in the perspective of the teaching authority of the Church, and essentially overrule your proposed restriction. Please forgive me.

The Doctrine of Papal Infallibility was promulgated by Pope Pius IX. It has been used only twice, both times ironically with regard to Our Blessed Mother. The same Pius IX defined the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception. Another Pius, in this case, Pope Pius XII, defined the Dogma of the Assumption of Mary in 1950.

As Catholics, we accede to Church Teaching by two means.
!) Religious submission: This grace allows us as Catholics to accept (submit to) the
genuine teaching authority of the Church. Even though one might have a personal
reservation about a particular teaching, he nevertheless submits to the Church’s
overall function and mandate (from Christ) to teach.

1. Assent of Faith. This is really the more important of the two, and allows us to accept
   an infallible pronouncement of the Holy Father, or the Bishops teaching in
   conjunction with the Holy Father. Both submission and assent are blessings of the
   Holy Spirit.

Our faith tradition requires that we either submit, or assent to the authentic teachings of the Church. Thus, from this perspective, belief in the Dogma(s) concerning the Blessed Mother would be essential for salvation.

Again, it’s quite possible,a person would have personal doubts or reservations concerning a Dogma/teaching. That’s not really the issue, so long as the required submission or assent of faith is rendered.

Once more, we’re viewing this from a totally Catholic perspective. Our Protestant friends would have us believe that none of what we’ve discussed concerning our Blessed Mother is required.

Hope this has helped a little.

 

[PhilipCal]

Let me approach your question from another angle. What I (we) have advanced as necessary for salvation re: The Blessed Virgin applies to Catholics. If you were say, born in, and still adhere to another faith tradition in which Mary’s role is not empathized as in the Catholic Faith, then belief in Christ as Savior is sufficient. Not looking for a war here, merely attempting in good faith to respond to your question(s)

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Hi Philip, no worries. I wasn’t looking for war either, not by a longshot. Just trying to clarify and answer the OP, that’s all. I understand the importance of Mary, know the pain and loss and suffering and raw heartache she experienced with her Son’s Passion. She is the saint of all saints, the Mother of God. I personally believe in the dogmas and don’t find them to be a stumbling block. The idea that they MUST be believed or else, that is a stumbling block. And I think in ecumenical dialogues with other faiths, especially Anglicans, Lutherans, and Orthodox, this is just one more unnecessary barrier toward reunions and ecumenism that I don’t think needs to be there. This is, IMO, just not essential for salvation, but rather a nice piece of speculation and information about a very, very, very important saint in the Church.

Let me approach your question from another angle. What I (we) have advanced as necessary for salvation re: The Blessed Virgin applies to Catholics. If you were say, born in, and still adhere to another faith tradition in which Mary’s role is not empathized as in the Catholic Faith, then belief in Christ as Savior is sufficient. Not looking for a war here, merely attempting in good faith to respond to your question(s)

 

[dianaiad]

Mary is necessary for our Salvation. Without her, you have no Jesus. If you think you can embrace the Son without His mother you are mistaken.

OK, but…doesn’t that mean we also have to ‘accept’ (not sure what you mean by that…) Mary’s mother, too, and her mother, and hers…all the way back to Eve? After all, without them, each and every one of them, we would have no Jesus.

Mary was unique–she was given a unique responsibility and calling. She has all my admiration and respect, but the fact remains that Jesus is the only Name by which we may be saved.

I have no idea whether you indended this, but your post actually looks like you are advocating her as a co-redemptress along with Jesus.

This perception causes a problem with non-Catholics, whether that perception is accurate or not. Could you clarifiy this?