Marian Doubts & Questions: Why I might leave Catholicism!

[Joan_M]

**

Why would Mary need a Saviour though, if she was sinless? I believe we should honour Mary but she was no more perfect than you or I. We all have the effects of sin within us until we die and when we are raised to eternal glory with the Lord then we will be perfect. It seems to me, though I may be wrong, that many Catholics place more value on Mary birthing Jesus instead of on the Father of Jesus and the Holy Spirit who placed Him in her womb.

Mary did need a Saviour and was, indeed saved - at her conception. God can do anything and He redeemed her in anticipation of the redemption on the cross.

Mary was, most certainly, perfect. Because she was conceived without Original Sin she was full of grace (remember, in well translated English versions of the Bible, the Angel Gabriel tells her “Hail, full of grace.” That is what the angel is telling us - that Mary was Immaculate.

Don’t you think that God the Son would have prepared a perfect mother for himself? **

 

[hoosierdaddy]

**

Mary did need a Saviour and was, indeed saved - at her conception. God can do anything and He redeemed her in anticipation of the redemption on the cross.

Where does Scripture say this? For such an important doctrine, don’t you think the Bible would have mentioned it?**

Mary was, most certainly, perfect. Because she was conceived without Original Sin she was full of grace (remember, in well translated English versions of the Bible, the Angel Gabriel tells her “Hail, full of grace.” That is what the angel is telling us - that Mary was Immaculate.

No she wasn’t perfect. She was “full of grace” (hint: so are all of us Christians when we get saved) and also like us, she was a sinner who needed salvation. If she was perfect she would have known what was going to happen in the future (the crucifixion, etc.). She was full of grace because she had God’s full unmerited favour. It was unmerited because she was a sinner.

Don’t you think that God the Son would have prepared a perfect mother for himself?

No, I think he would have prepared a human being so that Jesus could be one too. Jesus even said “who is my mother?” and that his mother was anyone who did His will.

 

[mikeledes]

Hoosierdaddy, what is your interpretation of Genesis 3:15? God puts enmity between the woman and the serpent. The woman is the mother of the Savior (He will crush your head). The woman enjoys the same measure of enmity with the Serpent as her Seed. In order to enjoy that level of enmity, you have to be sinless. Note, it is GOD HIMSELF who puts this enmity, not Mary.

God bless,
Michael

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Did the Church that determined the Canon believe Mary was the Queen of Heaven, Meditrix of all graces, and coredemptrix. Did they invoke her intercession and carry images of her in processions?

From a 3nd century papyrus, older than the canonization of Scripture, older than the 4th cent. manuscript of Sacred Scripture called Codex Sianiticus, which I mentioned above, is the following prayer to Mary, invoking her intercession…“Under your mercy we take refuge, O Mother of God. Do not reject our supplications in necessity, but deliver us from danger,[O you] alone pure and alone blessed.”
Sub Tuum Praesidium, Egypt 3rd Century, From Rylands Papyrus
From St. Athanasius, also before the canonization of the Bible…“O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides.”
Athanasius, Homily of the Papyrus of Turin,71:216(ante AD 373),in MCF,106
Notice that St. Athanasius compares Mary to the Ark of the Covenant? Take a closer look at that comparison…

The Ark was the holiest of all creation in the OT religion. It was sacred because it carried the stone tablets of the Law that God gave Moses on Mount Sinai. In Ex 25, God gave meticulous instructions for constructing the Ark. It had to be made incorruptible and pure, plated inside and outside with pure gold. It had to be kept free from all impurity and profanation. In 2 Sam 6:6-7, God struck Uzzah dead because he dared to touch the Ark.

From the earliest centuries, Christians saw the OT Ark as a type of Mary. That Ark carried the written Word of God; Mary carried the living Word. Mary is the living Ark of the living Word.

It is also significant that in Revelation, after seeing a vision of the OT Ark, John immediately sees a vision of a woman (Mary), thereby further connecting the OT Ark to the NT Ark–Mary.

The Ark helps us to see the biblical basis for doctrines like the Immaculate Conception and Assumption, which are not taught explicitly in Sacred Scripture, but which are taught implicitly through typology. Mary, like the OT Ark was made pure (Immaculate Conception), kept pure (Perpetual Virginity), and kept from corruption (bodily Assumption into heaven).

Moreover, God’s chosen people in the OT used the Ark of the Covenant as a guide in their journey into the promised land (Num 10:33; Josh 3:3,6,11,14). Moses and his people also used the OT Ark of the Covenant in their battle against adversity (Josh 3:13-17) and against their enemies (Joshua 6). Likewise, you may find Catholics who place Mary (the new Ark) in a prominent place in their faith journey, turning to her frequently in their fight against evil. In the OT, the actions of Moses and God’s people did not prove they worshipped the Ark. Any effects the Ark had in guiding them and battling adversity came only from God. The same is true for Catholics who turn to Mary for her intercession.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

St. Ephrem (d. 373) said of Mary, in a prayer ascribed to him: “After the Mediator thou art the mediatrix of the whole world” (Oratio IV ad Deiparam. 4th Lesson of the Office of the Feast).

Needanswers:

You don’t have any mention of it in Scripture or among the Church Fathers. I read the whole passage from Saint Ephrem and its authenticity seems somewhat doubtful. Was it really written by Ephrem?

Do you have reason to believe it was not written by Ephrem, as it has been attributed by many scholars? You understand that many have said the same thing about the books of Scripture, right?

Your epistimology seems rather flawed if you expect every truth to be explicit in Scripture. Is that your rule of faith? For example, where does it say Jesus was “eternally begotten of the Father” in Sacred Scripture? Several Protestant scholars reject the eternal Sonship of Christ because they claim to go by “Bible alone.” It is an epistemology which contradicts Sacred Scripture itself. Where does it say in the Bible that we are to find all truths in the Bible? It’s a self-refuting “tradition of men” concoted by Protestants, having no basis either in Traditon or Scripture.

If you are really serious about trying to understand the authentic doctrines of early Christianity, you need to first understand what the early Christians understood was the criterion for determining Christian doctine. It wasn’t “Bible alone” but included unwritten Tradition.

From the 4th century Eastern father, St. Basil, also before the canonization of Scripture…

Of the dogmas and messages preserved in the Church, some we possess from written teaching and others we receive from the tradition of the apostles, handed on to us in mystery. In respect to piety, both are of the same force. No one will contradict any of these, no one, at any rate, who is even moderately versed in matters ecclesiastical. Indeed, were we to try to reject unwritten customs as having no great authority, we would unwittingly injure the gospel in its vitals; or rather, we would reduce [Christian] message to a mere term" (The Holy Spirit 27:66 [A.D. 375]).

My advice to you is that when you come to a crossroad, look to the ancient path and follow it. Protestantism is not it.

Jeremiah 6:16
"This is what the LORD says: ‘Stand at the crossroads and look; ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls.’ "

What is the ancient path?

You don’t have any mention of it … among the Church Fathers.

St. Irenaeus (ca. AD 189) stated: “Mary … by her obedience became the cause of her own salvation and the salvation of the whole human race.” (Adv. haer. III 22,4).

This ancient teaching from the 2nd century is precisely the teaching of the Catholic Church on Mary as mediatrix/redemptrix. Protestant patristic scholar J.N.D. Kelly describes St. Irenaeus as summarizing orthodoxy of the 2nd century. Do you agree with St. Irenaeus?

St. Jerome, a 4th century father wrote about Mary’s role as mediatrix: “Death through Eve, life through Mary” [St. Jerome, Epist. 22, 21, in PL 22, 408]

Theodotus of Ancyra (d. cA AD 466), on Mary’s role in the redemption: “Through you, the sorrows of Eve have ceased; through you, evils have perished. Error has departed through you; through you, affliction has been abolished, condemnation destroyed.” [PO 19, 331, ed. by M. Jugie, A.A. On authenticity, cf. CMP, IV, 1, 107]

St. Cyril of Jerusalem, the great doctor of the Council of Ephesus, links Mary’s mediation to her office as Mother of God (Theotokos): “Hail Mary Theotokos, venerable treasure of the whole world, light unextinguished, crown of virginity, sceptre of orthodoxy, indestructible temple, which contains the uncontainable…it is through you that the Holy Trinity is glorified and adored, through you, the precisous cross is venerated and adored throughout the whole world, through you that heaven is in gladness, that angels and archangels rejoice, that demons are put to flight, through you that the tempter, the devil is cast down from heaven, through you that the fallen creature is raised up to heaven, through you that all creation, once imprisoned in idolatry, has reached knowledge of the truth, that the faithful obtain baptism and the oil of joy, churches have been founded in the whole world, that peoples are led to conversion.” Hom. in Deiparam, in PG 65, 681]

continued…

 

[itsjustdave1988]

continued…

The archbishop St. Proclus of Constantinople (d. 446) spoke of Mary as: “the only bridge of God to men.” (Hom. 1].

Basil of Seleucia (d. ca. AD 459) wrote of Mary: “Hail full of grace set up as Mediatress [mesiteuousa] of God and men, so that the walls of enmity should be torn down, heavenly and earthly things come together as one.” In SS. Deiparae Ann., in PG 85, 444AB. On authenticity, cf. R. Laurentin, Traite’, I, 167]

Antipater of Bostra (d. 5th cent.) wrote of Mary: “Hail you who acceptably intercedes as a Mediatress for mankind” [In S. Joannem Bapt., in PG 85, 1772C.]

St. John Damascene, recognized by Protestant, Orthodox, and Catholic patristic scholars as among the “Church fathesr” wrote: “You also by fulfilling the office of Mediatress [mesiteusasa], and being made the ladder of God descending to us, that He should assume our weak nature, an djoin and unit it to him…You brought together whaqt had been separated**”

There’s more, but I’m getting a cramp from typing.

 

[jacobaer]

Hi needanswers,

I see you asked why we need Mary’s prayers? It’s not just Mary’s prayers we need. We need the prayers of all God’s people, both those who have gone before us into the next life, and those who are still on the planet.

Please consider this Scripture passage:

---

1 John 5:16-17

---

“If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.”

There are a few issues to be dealt with here. First, a Christian can fall from grace in this life and revert to a state of spiritual death. This is clear in this passage and also in many others. Second, our prayers for our brothers and sisters in Christ are effective. Notice what John writes: “God will give him life.” That’s a mindblower when you think about it. We act as intercessors for one another. We act as mediators for one another. Of course, it is all grounded in and based on the one and true mediatorship of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Here is another passage to meditate on and pray about:

Colossians 1:24

---

“Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.”

I’ve given you two passages that show that our prayers and sufferings for other Christians are effective.

So do you think that the prayers of your spiritual Mother, Mary, are less effective, or more effective, in helping you on your journey of faith?

Peace,
Gene

 

[Needanswers]

St. Ephrem (d. 373) said of Mary, in a prayer ascribed to him: “After the Mediator thou art the mediatrix of the whole world” (Oratio IV ad Deiparam. 4th Lesson of the Office of the Feast).

Do you have reason to believe it was not written by Ephrem, as it has been attributed by many scholars? You understand that many have said the same thing about the books of Scripture, right?

Your epistimology seems rather flawed if you expect every truth to be explicit in Scripture. Is that your rule of faith? For example, where does it say Jesus was “eternally begotten of the Father” in Sacred Scripture? Several Protestant scholars reject the eternal Sonship of Christ because they claim to go by “Bible alone.” It is an epistemology which contradicts Sacred Scripture itself. Where does it say in the Bible that we are to find all truths in the Bible? It’s a self-refuting “tradition of men” concoted by Protestants, having no basis either in Traditon or Scripture.

If you are really serious about trying to understand the authentic doctrines of early Christianity, you need to first understand what the early Christians understood was the criterion for determining Christian doctine. It wasn’t “Bible alone” but included unwritten Tradition.

From the 4th century Eastern father, St. Basil, also before the canonization of Scripture…
My advice to you is that when you come to a crossroad, look to the ancient path and follow it. Protestantism is not it.

Jeremiah 6:16
"This is what the LORD says: ‘Stand at the crossroads and look; ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls.’ "

What is the ancient path?

St. Irenaeus (ca. AD 189) stated: “Mary … by her obedience became the cause of her own salvation and the salvation of the whole human race.” (Adv. haer. III 22,4).

This ancient teaching from the 2nd century is precisely the teaching of the Catholic Church on Mary as mediatrix/redemptrix. Protestant patristic scholar J.N.D. Kelly describes St. Irenaeus as summarizing orthodoxy of the 2nd century. Do you agree with St. Irenaeus?

St. Jerome, a 4th century father wrote about Mary’s role as mediatrix: “Death through Eve, life through Mary” [St. Jerome, Epist. 22, 21, in PL 22, 408]

Theodotus of Ancyra (d. cA AD 466), on Mary’s role in the redemption: “Through you, the sorrows of Eve have ceased; through you, evils have perished. Error has departed through you; through you, affliction has been abolished, condemnation destroyed.” [PO 19, 331, ed. by M. Jugie, A.A. On authenticity, cf. CMP, IV, 1, 107]

St. Cyril of Jerusalem, the great doctor of the Council of Ephesus, links Mary’s mediation to her office as Mother of God (Theotokos): “Hail Mary Theotokos, venerable treasure of the whole world, light unextinguished, crown of virginity, sceptre of orthodoxy, indestructible temple, which contains the uncontainable…it is through you that the Holy Trinity is glorified and adored, through you, the precisous cross is venerated and adored throughout the whole world, through you that heaven is in gladness, that angels and archangels rejoice, that demons are put to flight, through you that the tempter, the devil is cast down from heaven, through you that the fallen creature is raised up to heaven, through you that all creation, once imprisoned in idolatry, has reached knowledge of the truth, that the faithful obtain baptism and the oil of joy, churches have been founded in the whole world, that peoples are led to conversion.” Hom. in Deiparam, in PG 65, 681]

continued…

Where do they talk about her offering prayers in Calvary and uniting her suffering to those of her son? I can accept that Mary is co-redemptrix in the sense that she assented to being the mother of Jesus. But how do we conclude that her coredemption continues in Calvary?

Thanks

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Where do they talk about her offering prayers in Calvary and uniting her suffering to those of her son? I can accept that Mary is co-redemptrix in the sense that she assented to being the mother of Jesus. But how do we conclude that her coredemption continues in Calvary?

I’m not sure what you mean by “offering prayer in Calvary” and “continues in Calvary”, however…

Her co-operation with the redemption of Christ is described by Sacred Scripture. Observe, the prophecy of Simeon in Scripture…

Luke 2:34-35 Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is spoken against (and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed.”

The redemption is one aspect of her role as Redemptrix.

The particular role in Mary’s co-operation in Christ’s redemption is foretold in Gen 3:15…

Gen 3:15 - I will put enmity between you [ie. Satan] and the woman [ie. Mary] and between your seed [the seed of Satan] and her seed [ie. Mary’s Son Jesus]; he [Christ] shall bruise your [Satan’s] head, and you [Satan] shall bruise his [Christ’s] heel."

Notice, the enmity is something God places there. The enmity is singular. That is, it is the same singe enmity between the woman and Satan as the enmity with the seed and Satan. Theologians see this as supporting the sinlessness of Mary, just as that enmity prefigures the sinlessness of Christ. Likewise, theologians see this as foretelling of the redemptive act at Calvary, and the cooperation of Mary, called “woman” at Calvary by Christ.

The noble Bereans, after receiving the oral teachings of Paul and Silas with eagerness, searched the Hebrew Scriptures to see the teachings typologically hidden within the Old Testament.

**Acts 17:10-12 **- The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Beroe’a; and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessaloni’ca, for they received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Many of them therefore believed

Consequently, like the Bereans, Catholics interpret Scripture not merely literally, but also typologically.

For instance, some OT types which point us to truths about Mary…

**OT type in Genesis 3 … NT counterpart (Luke 1) **

• Fallen angel elicits Eve’s ‘no’ to God … Archangel elicits Mary’s ‘yes’ to God
• Adam loses grace for all mankind … Jesus restores grace for all mankind
• Eve cooperates in Adam’s sin … Mary cooperates in Jesus’ redemption
  The early Church Fathers made the obvious connection: Christ is the new Adam (1 Cor 15:45), Mary is the new Eve. After Adam and Eve sinned, Gen 3:15 prophesies a woman and her son who will be at total enmity with the serpent (Satan) and his descendents. The woman’s son will crush the serpent’s head. Since the man who crushes the serpent’s head is obviously Jesus, the woman must be Mary.

The early church Fathers, such as St. Justin Martyr and St. Irenaeus, understood this Biblical typology. Although the human race fell through Adam, Eve’s role was crucial. Jesus redeemed the human race, but Mary’s role was likewise crucial.

Jesus definitively crushed Satan’s head on Calvary. Significantly, all four evangelists record that Calvary means “skull-place.” Satan thought he had struck Jesus a lethal blow on the cross, but it proved to be a minor wound (“you will strike at his heel”). Satan suffered the mortal wound (“he will strike at your head”) as Jesus destroyed our bondage to sin and death.

Who was at Christ’s side on Calvary? Mary. What does Jesus call her? “Woman.” Mary is the New Eve. She is the “woman” of Genesis 3:15, the “woman” of John 2 whose intercession launched Christ’s public and miraculous ministry through which his disciples came to believe, and Mary is the the “woman” of John 19 at the foot of the cross with the pierced soul prophesied by Simeon, andMary is the “woman” of Rev 12 who, with her son Jesus, fights against Satan until the end. From Genesis to Revelation, the Bible describes Jesus and Mary together crushing the serpent’s head.

continued…

 

[mikeledes]

I’m not sure what you mean by “offering prayer in Calvary” and “continues in Calvary”, however…

Her co-operation with the redemption of Christ is described by Sacred Scripture. Observe, the prophecy of Simeon in Scripture…

Luke 2:34-35 Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is spoken against (and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed.”

The redemption is one aspect of her role as Redemptrix.

The particular role in Mary’s co-operation in Christ’s redemption is foretold in Gen 3:15…

Gen 3:15 - I will put enmity between you [ie. Satan] and the woman [ie. Mary] and between your seed [the seed of Satan] and her seed [ie. Mary’s Son Jesus]; he [Christ] shall bruise your [Satan’s] head, and you [Satan] shall bruise his [Christ’s] heel."

Notice, the enmity is something God places there. The enmity is singular. That is, it is the same singe enmity between the woman and Satan as the enmity with the seed and Satan. Theologians see this as supporting the sinlessness of Mary, just as that enmity prefigures the sinlessness of Christ. Likewise, theologians see this as foretelling of the redemptive act at Calvary, and the cooperation of Mary, called “woman” at Calvary by Christ.

The noble Bereans, after receiving the oral teachings of Paul and Silas with eagerness, searched the Hebrew Scriptures to see the teachings typologically hidden within the Old Testament.

**Acts 17:10-12 **- The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Beroe’a; and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessaloni’ca, for they received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Many of them therefore believed

Consequently, like the Bereans, Catholics interpret Scripture not merely literally, but also typologically.

For instance, some OT types which point us to truths about Mary…

**OT type in Genesis 3 … NT counterpart (Luke 1) **

• Fallen angel elicits Eve’s ‘no’ to God … Archangel elicits Mary’s ‘yes’ to God
• Adam loses grace for all mankind … Jesus restores grace for all mankind
• Eve cooperates in Adam’s sin … Mary cooperates in Jesus’ redemption
  The early Church Fathers made the obvious connection: Christ is the new Adam (1 Cor 15:45), Mary is the new Eve. After Adam and Eve sinned, Gen 3:15 prophesies a woman and her son who will be at total enmity with the serpent (Satan) and his descendents. The woman’s son will crush the serpent’s head. Since the man who crushes the serpent’s head is obviously Jesus, the woman must be Mary.

The early church Fathers, such as St. Justin Martyr and St. Irenaeus, understood this Biblical typology. Although the human race fell through Adam, Eve’s role was crucial. Jesus redeemed the human race, but Mary’s role was likewise crucial.

Jesus definitively crushed Satan’s head on Calvary. Significantly, all four evangelists record that Calvary means “skull-place.” Satan thought he had struck Jesus a lethal blow on the cross, but it proved to be a minor wound (“you will strike at his heel”). Satan suffered the mortal wound (“he will strike at your head”) as Jesus destroyed our bondage to sin and death.

Who was at Christ’s side on Calvary? Mary. What does Jesus call her? “Woman.” Mary is the New Eve. She is the “woman” of Genesis 3:15, the “woman” of John 2 whose intercession launched Christ’s public and miraculous ministry through which his disciples came to believe, and Mary is the the “woman” of John 19 at the foot of the cross with the pierced soul prophesied by Simeon, andMary is the “woman” of Rev 12 who, with her son Jesus, fights against Satan until the end. From Genesis to Revelation, the Bible describes Jesus and Mary together crushing the serpent’s head.

continued…

You should have a show on EWTN or be a guest on the Catholic Answers Radio show.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[itsjustdave1988]

continued…

Mary’s co-operation in the redemption at Calvary was not due to Jesus needing a helper at Calvary, as if it was not within the power of God the Son to merit man’s salvation. Catholicism teaches that the merit of Christ ALONE is infinitely meritorious, the only meritorious cause of our justification.

However, Mary’s co-operation in the redemption was fitting according to God’s providence. Mary would suffer a pierced heart as well, to continue the “woman and seed” enmity for Satan and the wicked placed by God and foretold in Gen 3:15. Jesus did not need a helper as our Redeemer, but the sorrow of Mary was joined to His just the same. This is just as true as saying God doesn’t need a co-worker, but he indeed has co-workers (cf. 1 Cor 3:9).

St. Ambrose, commenting on Mary’s presence at Calvary,

Jesus did not need a helper for the redemption of all, he who said ‘I am become as a man without help, free among the dead’. So he welcomed the love of a mother, but sought no help of man.

St. Ambrose imagined that Mary wanted to die with her Son, “hoping that by her death something would be added to the public office.” Not hard to imagine, is it?

Nonetheless, not all Catholic theologians agree with regard to the nature of Mary’s direct co-operation in the objective redemption (ie., the event at Calvary). In this matter, Catholics remain free to disagree.

However, Catholics owe there assent to the teaching regarding Mary’s indirect cooperation in the objective redemption which,

…derives from this, that **she voluntarily devoted her whole life to the service of the Redeemer, and, under the Cross, suffered and sacrificed with Him. ** As Pope Pius XII says in the Encyclical “Mystici Corporis” (1943), she “offered Him on Golgotha to the Eternal Father together with the holocaust of her maternal rights and her motherly love like a new Eve for all children of Adam”[Ott, Ludwig, *Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma,

p. 213]
Dr. Ott goes on to state,

Christ alone truly offered the sacrifice of atonement on the Cross… Christ, as the Church teaches, “conquered the enemy of the human race alone (solus)” (D 711); in the same way, He alone acquired the grace of Redemption for the whole human race, including Mary.

Mary was the “handmaid of the Lord” (Lk 1:38) not simply at the Annunciation, but throughout her whole life on earth. Her co-operation in the redemption was that of a “handmaid of the Lord” and sorrowful Mother. And as Mother of all Christians, she continues in her ever-present intercessory co-operation in the subjective redemption, which is the applicaiton of the work at Calvary to each individual soul that is made just by God.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

You should have a show on EWTN or be a guest on the Catholic Answers Radio show.

God Bless,
Michael

Thank you, however, I’m simply standing on the shoulders of more qualified men such as Fr. Frank Chacon and Jim Burnham from San Juan Catholic Seminars, where I found much of the discussion I presented above.

I recommend ALL ten of the Beginning Apologetic’s volumes, most especially…

Beginning Apologetics 6: How to Explain & Defend Marian Doctrines

Some of the other material I got from Michael O’Carroll, C.S.Sp., Theotokos - A Theologicla Encyclopedia of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

LOL thanks Dave. I thought I was right. It’s the offices which people hold then? It’s the people and not a force. I just couldn’t believe I got laughed at. Unless I still ain’t getting it.

It’s not necessarily the office itself, but the “teaching authority” vested in those that hold the office.

Catholics interpretation of Sacred Scripture is that Christ bestowed His teaching authority (magisterium) on certain pastors in His Church.

Luke 10:16 - “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

This authority was passed on through apostolic succession by means of the laying on of hands (e.g., Acts 1:20; 6:6; 13:3; 8:18; 9:17; 1 Tim. 4:14; 5:22; 2 Tim. 1:6).

 

[tracydaisy]

1. If the Assumption is part of Tradition, why is it not mentioned during the first 500 years of the Christianity? Why is it that Saint Epiphanius, writing towards the end of the fourth century, says no one know what happened to Mary if the Assumption came to us through tradition? Wouldn’t he know this divinely revealed tradition?

Needanswers

Hello Need answers,

Catholic relics. There is no bodily relic of the Blessed Virgin Mary. No Church claims to have her body. This is strong argument for Mary’s assumption.

Listen to these words of St. John of Damascus 740 a.d. [obtained from Scott Hahn’s book “Hail, Holy Queen”]

This day the Eden of the New Adam welcomes its living Paradise, in whom our sentence has been repealed… Eve gave ear to the message of the serpent… and, together with Adam, was condemned to death and assigned to the world of darkness. But how could death swallow this truly blessed soul, who humbly gave ear to the word of God?.. How could corruption dare touch the body that had contained Life? Such thoughts are abhorrent and totally repugnant in regard to the body and soul of the Mother of God.

I really love that quote, it speaks to my heart, how could Mary’s body who contained Life itself, Jesus, be left in the ground to decay.

 

[vampares]

**** if their church’s official teaching contradict it, then they should leave their church.

interesting

The Ideas presented by scripture allow for several possibilities. You cannot read into these thing any farther and acquire historical knowledge other then perhaps cultural tones and ethos. The actual reality would be disputed even with shelves of volumes of accounts and data to peruse.

The scripture indicates that she was a virgin at least until the birth of Jesus.

The scientific understanding that was made possible with the microscope raises some issues. It is know that genetic material is combined in reproduction. This would mean that either a male had to have been involved or matter was created. This would be the only other point in time where matter was created other then the Genesis of the universe – as far as I know. The former possibility happens all the time and is nothing extraordinary in itself so it really isn’t much to ponder. The Catholic Church teaches that Mary was a virgin and never ceased to be one. This is not a radical concept in light of gospel metaphors involving family, children and such. Her role is consistent with someone who at a young age takes on adult responsibilities and is not influenced by social maladies of ones peers. Her life does not seem to have an external component to it. She does not bring a social sphere of friend to Jesus but instead is led by him. Where Joesph is, I have no idea. It seems like the attention to Mary lets him off the hook some. The fact that the son of man has no place to rest his head does not say much for his carpentry skills. Anyways, as a disciple, she is with Jesus from a youthful, impressionable time in her life. She is a better disciple for it. If she had sex with her husband it would be a blessed thing as well but is not of importance for the gospels.

Can she intercede as a saint? Saints are established for the public cultus influence – NOT as dieties to be worshiped. Their influence is for a Church body or order to follow. The example they set is one way of worshiping God and prove that Jesus is the savior and this is why the Church recognizes them. Prayers for intercession are tricky subject. Jesus tells us not to make a public spectacle of prayers and to pray in private. He also gives us the lords prayer, his body and his blood to fellowship by. But to the issue raised of all graces passing through Mary: if the example of Mary is followed then all of ones graces would follow as did Mary’s. Perhaps this is a better illustration than historical accounts could provide.

 

[Lrning]

God put His own Word above His own Name. His Word is the ultimate authority in faith and practice.

Ah, but the Word of God is not a book, it is a person… Jesus.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Hoosier sez:No she wasn’t perfect. She was “full of grace” (hint: so are all of us Christians when we get saved) and also like us, she was a sinner who needed salvation. If she was perfect she would have known what was going to happen in the future (the crucifixion, etc.). She was full of grace because she had God’s full unmerited favour. It was unmerited because she was a sinner.
Mary is not the only immaculate people God ever created.

Adam and Eve were created without sin, also.

If God can create the mud out of which He creates the man, He sure as heck can create the man (or woman in this case) immaculately if He wants to.

Catholics understand that Mary needed a savior; she said so herself when speaking to Elizabeth she said, “My spirit rejoices in God my savior.”

However, in her particular case, she was saved from the stain of original sin before she fell into the mud; the rest of us are saved after we’ve already been stained.

This is fitting because like the Ark of the Old Covenant which held the manna that came down from heaven, Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant that contained the Bread which came down from Heaven.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Hoosierdaddy, what is your interpretation of Genesis 3:15? God puts enmity between the woman and the serpent. The woman is the mother of the Savior (He will crush your head). The woman enjoys the same measure of enmity with the Serpent as her Seed. In order to enjoy that level of enmity, you have to be sinless. Note, it is GOD HIMSELF who puts this enmity, not Mary.

God bless,
Michael

I always thought it was talking about Eve. She is the “mother” of mankind I guess. Who says you have to be sinless to enjoy that enmity? All it was saying was there was going to be enmity. What was the reason for the enmity? Jesus will crush satan’s head.

What is your interpretation of Romans 3:23? When it says that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God what does it mean?

 

[HailMary]

This is fitting because like the Ark of the Old Covenant which held the manna that came down from heaven, Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant that contained the Bread which came down from Heaven.

please see this for more information on why the Blessed Virgin Mary is the Living Ark of the NEW Covenant.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Ah, but the Word of God is not a book, it is a person… Jesus.

Ah but the Word of God is still a book. If it weren’t, you would say you never use it. Instead you say that you use it along with Tradition.