Marijuana & cigarettes immorality

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SisterSnowflake

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OK…by now you are all used to me asking some pretty odd questions that have come up in my high school moral theology class (juniors). At one point people even started speculating that I was a “troll” or in need of mental health help! I remind you, I’m nothing of the sort…simply a teaching Sister with a bunch of teenagers that have pretty random questions & scenarios for which I can’t always find an answer! 🙂

Here goes: Is marijuana immoral because it is illegal or is it immoral in and of itself? My response was that we could make the case that its use is immoral even it it were not illegal because it kills brain cells. A few boys went on to tell me that marijuana kills less brain cells than alcohol, yet the Church allows alcohol in moderation…the question then is why is this so?

Next, they said that regular cigarettes are far worse for your health than marijuana…why does the Church not declare smoking immoral/unlawful for Catholics?

YIKES! I tried to explain that there is not a Church teaching on every single issue, but they are still wondering about these questions.

I do not drink at all ever, I do not smoke, and I have never used drugs. One Sister I live with is the exact same (no smoking, drinking, or drugs EVER in her entire life…she won’t even take a Tylenol for a headache), another Sister will sometimes have a beer with pizza or a glass of wine with dinner. None of us could come up with a sufficient answer for the above questions.

Any thoughts?

Thanks & God bless!

Sister H.
 
SisterSnowflake said:
OK…by now you are all used to me asking some pretty odd questions that have come up in my high school moral theology class (juniors). At one point people even started speculating that I was a “troll” or in need of mental health help! I remind you, I’m nothing of the sort…simply a teaching Sister with a bunch of teenagers that have pretty random questions & scenarios for which I can’t always find an answer! 🙂

Here goes: Is marijuana immoral because it is illegal or is it immoral in and of itself? My response was that we could make the case that its use is immoral even it it were not illegal because it kills brain cells. A few boys went on to tell me that marijuana kills less brain cells than alcohol, yet the Church allows alcohol in moderation…the question then is why is this so?

Next, they said that regular cigarettes are far worse for your health than marijuana…why does the Church not declare smoking immoral/unlawful for Catholics?

YIKES! I tried to explain that there is not a Church teaching on every single issue, but they are still wondering about these questions.

I do not drink at all ever, I do not smoke, and I have never used drugs. One Sister I live with is the exact same (no smoking, drinking, or drugs EVER in her entire life…she won’t even take a Tylenol for a headache), another Sister will sometimes have a beer with pizza or a glass of wine with dinner. None of us could come up with a sufficient answer for the above questions.

Any thoughts?

Thanks & God bless!

Sister H.
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I would say the reason it is looked upon as immoral these days is because it is illegal. I am sure there are reasons to prohibit the use of marijuana, but the same exact reasons exist also to prohibit the use of other recreational drugs, such as cigarettes, cigars, and alcohol, which we do not prohibit even though the effects of use are sometimes just as bad.
 
Catechism of the Catholic Church
2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.
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2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.
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Tobacco and alcohol, and indeed eating McDonald’s can cause grave damage to a person’s body, but the very acts of smoking and drinking and eating are morally neutral. It is temperance that is advised, as none of these things are likely to cause immediate negative effects if not done to excess. They may indeed increase the risk of certain things happening, but that in itself is not a reason to prohibit their use. There is often a risk of death when one crosses the road, and we cannot say that crossing the road is immoral.

A good case could therefore be made for marijuana to be treated more like alcohol and tobacco than other substances, and as much as the use of alcohol and tobacco are permissible, provided they are not used to excess, so too I can imagine that marijuana could fall under that category.

BUT

We are to be obedient to civil authority where its laws do not contradict the moral law. There is nothing immoral about not smoking marijuana, and therefore we sin through disobedience if we disregard the laws of the jurisdiction in which we reside.
 
But…isn’t it in the Bible to use ALL seeds and herbs? May I ask what marijuana is? Isn’t it a natural seed that God stated in the bible to use? Isn’t marijuana a herb? Isn’t it proven that marijuana also helps with medical purposes???
 
yak4thesteelers said:
But…isn’t it in the Bible to use ALL seeds and herbs? May I ask what marijuana is? Isn’t it a natural seed that God stated in the bible to use? Isn’t marijuana a herb? Isn’t it proven that marijuana also helps with medical purposes???
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Marijuana should definately be allowed for medical purposes and I would say there’s nothing wrong with using it for such, even though it’s illegal in most places. To use it to get high, however, is absolutely not okay just like purposely getting drunk is not okay.
 
ChibiViolet said:
Marijuana should definately be allowed for medical purposes and I would say there’s nothing wrong with using it for such, even though it’s illegal in most places. To use it to get high, however, is absolutely not okay just like purposely getting drunk is not okay.
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Being drunk to the loss of reason is indeed a sin, and so too would the use of marijuana to the loss of reason be a sin. I don’t think recreational and non-medicinal use per se, however, is sinful, in that such recreational use of alcohol and tobacco is permitted.

Disrespecting lawful civil authorities in matters where their rules and regulations do not conflict with the moral law, however, is committing the sin of disobedience, and although one can argue that there is nothing inherently wrong with smoking marijuana, it is definitely wrong to do so in any jurisdiction where it is forbidden by law.
 
In my opinion I see marijuana as “the forbidden fruit”. It smells good (once you start smoking it for a while you become keen to it). Once you start smoking it you begin to always look at the “quality” and the way the bud looks. You eventually become very concerned with what type and grade it is if you continue to smoke. At least in my case that’s what happened to me, I smoked for 4 years on and off.

I noticed while I was “high” I was actually just becoming psychologically addicted to something that was of the earth. I spent thousands of dollars on it, when that money could have been going towards charities, the poor, and what not. I believe marijuana makes you selfish (unless used for medical reasons), and we must ask ourselves would Jesus smoke marijuana? No, he wouldn’t… please tell us the bible verse where Jesus and his disciples rolled a fat one and commenced on their journey.

I also found it very hard to pray while “high” because I always felt guilty for praying to our Lord in a mind state that I had changed from the original mind state he had given me.

Where does God want us to put our time and investment? Does smoking marijuana lead us down the path towards Christ? The reason I smoked marijuana is because it made life and its sufferings seem easy…but that is not what Jesus teaches, we must all take up our crosses and fight the good fight.

My :twocents:
 
I found the following on Yahoo Answers:

As well as psychotic illness cannabis can cause affective disorders such as depression, anxiety and suicidal thoughts. Even worse it is linked to cancers.

Cannabis users display neuropsychological dysfunction (relative frontal lobe functioning deficits, cognitive inhibition) and attentional deficits similar to those found in schizotypal or schizophrenia patients.

Regular use can shrink the parts of the brain which control memory, emotion and aggression. The hippocampus, which is thought to govern emotion and memory averages 12% smaller and the amygdala, which has a part in controlling fear and aggression, 7% smaller. This suggests that heavy daily use may be toxic to human brain tissue.

Blood flow velocity is significantly higher in users and they have higher values on the pulsatility index (PI), which measures the amount of resistance to blood flow. This is thought to be due to narrowing of the blood vessels that occurs when the circulation system’s ability to regulate itself is impaired. This leads to abnormalities in the small blood vessels in the brain.

The active chemical in MJ called delta-9-tetrahyrdocannabinol (THC) binds to cannabinoid (CB) receptors located on several cell types in various organs. This greatly increases the risk for heart attacks and strokes in addition to impaired learning and memory.

It can also effect physical health. Three to four cannabis cigarettes a day cause the same amount of damage to the lungs as 20 or more tobacco cigarettes a day. Thus there are rising levels of lung diseases such as emphysema.
In comparison to cigarettes marijuana smoke has significantly higher levels of toxic compounds, including ammonia and hydrogen cyanide. Ammonia levels are 20 times higher while hydrogen cyanide, nitric oxide and certain aromatic amines occurred at levels 3-5 times higher.
It can also effect the unborn child. Scientists have identified that endogenous cannabinoids, molecules naturally produced by our brains are functionally similar to THC from cannabis and play significant roles in establishing how certain nerve cells connect to each other. Maternal cannabis use allows THC to travel through the placenta and impair fetal brain development and impose life-long cognitive, social, and motor deficits in affected offspring.

Low doses of Ä-9 tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), equivalent to that in the bloodstream of an average marijuana smoker facilitate infection of skin cells and can cause these cells to turn into malignant sarcoma.
 
i also see alcohol and cigarettes as the forbidden fruit but its legal…and i’m not going to lie as i do use this natural seed…i don’t use it to get “high” i do use it for medical purpose as i have chronic pain and fatigue along with depression and anxiety and many other medical problems and because of severe stomach problems i can not take the man made pain medicines along with a lot of other man made drugs like antibiotics…not because i’m allergic to them…but because of the side effects it causes…but when i smoke it helps me deal with the pain calms my stomach so i can eat … it i have a clearer mind…i able to think…and i do a lot of talking with God…because i can concentrate instead of focusing on the pain and trying to deal with it…but i do see with weed as well as with alcohol and cigarettes and really if you look at it…anything on this earth can cause a person to become selfish and cause problems for themselves their families their spouse their God and everything else…only if we allow it…and not get help… personally…i don’t feel weed has made me selfish… because of it i was able to donate my time doing fundraisers for my brother volunteering at our soup kitchen each week…
 
I used to believe that it kills brain cells until recent scientific studies proved me wrong.
I still think it is bad to use though. It is not healthy for your lungs, it can cause memory problems, it raises blood pressure and heart rate, lowers fertility, not to mention it can increase your risk of lung and throat cancer.

Even if it was legal, it still wouldn’t be the best choice to do. I think it would be okay for somebody with a terminal illness to use if that was the best choice for them, but that should be used as a last resort.
 
I used to believe that it kills brain cells until recent scientific studies proved me wrong.
I still think it is bad to use though. It is not healthy for your lungs, it can cause memory problems, it raises blood pressure and heart rate, lowers fertility, not to mention it can increase your risk of lung and throat cancer.

and if you dig further into the benefits of marijuana you would also know that is not as bad for the lungs as some suggest…it does help open up the bronchs in your lungs as when you take a hit off of it you inhale further into your lungs then you would smoking a cig…so this helps expand the lungs…i did not know this until i seen someone on judge judy with asthma…and thought it was a bunch of bull along with my husband who happens to be a nurse…no he does not smoke it…as he knows it helps with my medical problems…so we looked up…it has also been proven to help with the memory problems as in people that has alzheimers…its also a known fact that it lowers blood pressure…and yes i smoke for medical reasons as listed in another post…and both my parents…God rest their souls…had high blood pressure as well as my other 4 siblings…in which they had to start taking bp meds in their early to mid 40’s…i’m almost 49…and my bp runs 98/62…and its going to take a lot to convince me that this natural seed from God is worse then man made drugs that is known to cause all kinds of other problems…
.
 
Ok, you made a good point, yes it does open your airways. Still not good enough for me.

In your last sentence, you also used “natural seed from God”. I know alot of people say “sine God made it, it must not be bad!”

Well, God also happened to make poison ivy, but you wouldn’t go and smoke that either, right?

Not everything God made is for eating or smoking. 😉
 
no maybe not everything is made to eat or smoke…and with marijuana you can do both…but what about the beauty in it…if you really look at it…it is a very pretty ivy…😉
 
There is quite a long thread on this subject under the title “What are the teachings of the Church on Marijuana use?”

Most of the arguments against marijuana as a recreational drug are merely the repetitions of propaganda or downright silly. The only question that seems legitimate is that of obedience to civil authority. I posted the following: (pay special attentio where I quote the catechism on proper civil authority and what actually constitutes just law and whether we are bound in conscience to obey…

LaSainte,
Thanks for being a voice of reason on this thread. I am both a practicing and conservative Catholic and a zealous Libertarian. I spend a lot of time arguing with people in subjects which people have formed stubborn, unreasonable opinions. It’s flabbergasting how few people actually understand how to make a properly supported, cogent, logical argument. Try arguing with a liberal on contraceptives or the welfare state.

As a practicing Catholic who has started smoking recently on weekends, I hoped for some better guidance from the Church. It seems to be lacking. While the catechism seems to clearly state that “drugs are bad” this obviously leaves out alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, aspirin, or morphine. Yes, it is illegal to use morphine when not prescribed, but it is also illegal to use aspirin in anyway not in accord with the instructions on the label.

As for alcohol, what can I say? Probably has caused the most damage of any drug in history, yet it was consumed in quantity at Cana, and became CHRIST’S BLOOD at the Last Supper.

Coca and opium both have legitimate uses. Yet neither is “necessary”. Wine is perfectly acceptable for purely recreational use if used in moderation. Wine “gladdens the heart”… It’s not about consuming so little that you feel little or no of the effect. It’s put here for our enjoyment! Yet it is not necessary… Oh wait, except for that sacrament thingy, what do we call it? I blame the tee-totaling tendencies present in modern conservative America entirely on Protestant influence. Prohibition just isn’t CATHOLIC. It’s not our style! Catholicism acknowledges the Rhythm of Life, that there is a proper time and place for most things - a time to sow, a time to reap… A time for self-denial and fasting and a time for celebration. Some, a very few actually, are called by their vocation to a life of asceticism. Just as some are called to celibacy. Not most of us.

Of course there are a few people on this thread that would gladly outlaw alcohol and tobacco. While that doesn’t strictly disqualify their arguments, it certainly casts a doubt on their supposed openness to Truth. Jesus wasn’t a teetotaler.

Most of the people on this thread that are against marijuana use are making sweeping generalizations (notice how I just did the same), claims based on bad science, no science or downright propaganda, claims based on inexperience or bad experience. What about those of us that have had good experiences?

Anyway, it seems the only question left is the matter of Civil Obedience. I know we are ethically responsible to help create an ordered society. Clearly, the Drug War does exactly the opposite of that! How can we fight against it? Most on this thread have not even reached this conclusion. That shows how little informed they are! Can Civil Disobedience be a legitimate means of enacting social change? I believe you are correct in your interpretation of Aquinas. But I want more certainty.
So I find this from the Catechism:

Authority does not derive its moral legitimacy from itself. It must not behave in a despotic manner, but must act for the common good as a moral force based on freedom and a sense of responsibility: A human law has the character of law to the extent that it accords with right reason, and thus derives from the eternal law. Insofar as it falls short of right reason it is said to be an unjust law, and thus has not so much the nature of law as of a kind of violence. (1902)

Authority is exercised legitimately only when it seeks the common good of the group concerned and if it employs morally licit means to attain it. If rulers were to enact unjust laws or take measures contrary to the moral order, such arrangements would not be binding in conscience. In such a case, authority breaks down completely and results in shameful abuse. (1903)

I’m also seeing a lot of people talking about civil disobedience regarding right to life issues. Now, the Right to Life, I think is of a much greater gravity than marijuana laws, but isn’t the principle the same so long as our disobedience is in proportion to the gravitas?

I think I have reached my conclusion for now, at least until something more comes to light. I will continue to moderately use Pot, careful to support only local trusted sources, learning and encouraging the growth of the culture, while subtly, gently, charitably promoting it to my non-using friends and family as a legitimate recreational and restorative tool akin to wine, and staunchly advocating its total legalization and deregulation in the public square.

If anyone has anything to add, I welcome your thoughts. Please be reasonable, that is, able to be Reasoned with…

D
 
kch86 said:
We are to be obedient to civil authority where its laws do not contradict the moral law. There is nothing immoral about not smoking marijuana, and therefore we sin through disobedience if we disregard the laws of the jurisdiction in which we reside.
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To the contrary, according to the catechism, as I cited in my post:

"Authority does not derive its moral legitimacy from itself. It must not behave in a despotic manner, but must act for the common good as a moral force based on freedom and a sense of responsibility: A human law has the character of law to the extent that it accords with right reason, and thus derives from the eternal law. Insofar as it falls short of right reason it is said to be an unjust law, and thus has not so much the nature of law as of a kind of violence. (1902)

Authority is exercised legitimately only when it seeks the common good of the group concerned and if it employs morally licit means to attain it. If rulers were to enact unjust laws or take measures contrary to the moral order, such arrangements would not be binding in conscience. In such a case, authority breaks down completely and results in shameful abuse. (1903)"

Civil law must be aimed at the common good and based on freedom and responsibility. In so far as any law merely “falls short” of right reason it is unjust. Unjust laws are not “binding in conscience.”

Some other considerations,
We should promote general order. So we shouldn’t support drug cartels, but neither should support a government that uses extreme violence, prisons, or promotes racism in a “Drug War” that is unjust to begin with.

We should avoid scandal. For example, just because drinking is OK doesn’t mean I should frequent dubious, ill-reputed bars. If I smoke marijuana or consume alcohol, I should not flagrantly ignore the sensibilities of the community and I should try to maintain a reputation that will reflect well on the Christian lifestyle. I should promote temperance and moderation and not have a reputation as a lush. You don’t need to lie or be secretive. But you can be discreet. And considerate. Don’t push your values on others. But as always, be prepared to give a reasoned argument in charity.

Have I made my argument effectively?
 
yak4thesteelers said:
@deasler81:
AMEN
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Yes! And let no-one forget that when marijuana is vaporized, it is completely healthy to use and that marijuana has been proven not to kill brain cells, and according to new studies, may actually GROW them! All problems with memory and motor skills occur only while actually under the influence, not after, and certainly not permanently.
 
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