Marijuana

[IanBoyd57]

Exactly what rituals and ceremonies did Jesus go through where he would be annointed. As far as I know, there were fairly few things the Jews would use anointing with oil for, the two biggest being kingship and priesthood. Christ was never understood by the Jews to be either of these things, and was not annointed into them as far as we can tell.

Christ does mean annointed one, however, itt does not necessarily mean that Jesus was physically annointed by anyone, People of that time would know that to be annointed was to be singled out for something special.

I also think that you are reading too much into this, I mean, you say that Jesus would have to have been annointed with these oils, but that is not the case. It may have been that these oils were used for healing people, as cannabis was used as a medicine (and in some parts of the world still is).

No one is saying that it is impossible for the Jews to have used Marijuana in a medicinal fashion. But the only time we KNOW of Christ being anointed we know it was a mixture of oil and spikenard. So the only thing we know of is that Jesus used spikenard. We also know He was annointed with aloes at the time of His burial.

Jesus was not the High priest of the Jews, and so would not have used the Jewish holy oils in His day to day life. Jesus was not a king (at least on earth) and so would not have been annointed with the Holy oils.

Perhaps a little background on ancient Jewish Customs would be beneficial.

As a side note, Jewish soldiers also covered themselves in oil, I do not know if it contained cannabis or not, but I would guess it was to prepare their muscles, cleanse them so if they were wounded it would not be infected, and it does not hurt to be slippery when your opponent wants to hurt you. Cannabis might have helped, but probably would have hurt the soldier more, (a little hesitation or fuzziness in the head and you could be dead)

A lone Raven

p.s.- I could be wrong on some of the customs, but I am pretty sure they are in line.

From the article and from where I first read about this, I had the idea that he would be anointed in line with the customs. I mean, that could be wrong for whatever reason I suppose.

There is no evidence, though, that Jesus would not want to use it or was against it for whatever reason, and it was not only in common use at the time, but an ingredient in a common anointing oil.

This doesn’t mean he used it, of course, but that’s why it surprises me that some people will adamantly deny that he even could have used it. The stigma surrounding marijuana is very interesting (and sort of insane).

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Not that I would know, but it seems to me that you can drink a beer and not be drunk, but if you inhale marijuana just once, you are stoned. Stoned is the right term, correct?

But with marijuana, as well as alcohol I guess, there are users, and abusers.
Some people can use it and get along fine, others use it and can’t stop from abusing it. Not that I would know.

Run and sew:

I’ve seen the worse of both - My brother abused Marijuana and other drugs and even stabbed one of his "friends when the “friend” stole several of the marijuana plants he was growing. I also saw the carreer of a dominating motocross rider go “up in smoke” in our garage as the young man “Partied” with my brother.

On the other hand, I’ve seen “low bottom” alcoholics aho had done so much drinking that their minds were almost non-functional even after they stopped drinking. And, Most of us have heard of how long term alcoholism destroys the liver and other organs.

This doesn’t mean that marijuana can’t be responsibly used as a medicine by those who have HIV-AIDS to keep them from being nausiated from both the diease and the massive load of pills they need to take to manage the infection and to stay alive or for patients with glaucoma. And in all of these cases, the natural plant works better than the manufactured pharmacuetical extract.

And, contrary to the report from NIDI, the CHP (in the 1970’s) saw that, while people who were under the influence of even moderate levels (BAC .05-.08) of Alcohol, had difficulty navigating their course, people who had ingested comparable amous of marijuana (while often unaware of what they had done) negotiated the same course without difficuty.

This is not to say that Alcohol should be made illegal (Prohibition was an unmitigated disaster), or that Marijuana should be legalized beyond allowing the growth by patients and thir families for medicinal purposes and the proscribing of it by Doctors so that’s it usage might be confined to those who need it and that they use it under medical supervision.

I’m also saying that we need to have a rational discussion about the purpose and the reason for Laws so that Laws are enacted that make sense and that are enforceable without causing the deaths of those who are forced to comply as in the case of the AIDS patients who are forced to give up Medical Marijuana whenever they comply with our country’s marijuana laws.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

And he also used marijuana or he was not the christ. No, I’m serious. One of the oils he was anointed with and stuff had cannabis as an ingredient in the form of hash oil. I can’t be bothered to look it up now though, perhaps someone knows what I’m talking about.

Ian:

Here’s the Modern Day Counterpart from Israel - They are all made with Galilee Virgin OIive Oil and to be used in various Jewish Ceremonies:

EIN GEDI Blessing from Jerusalem - Made in Israel

Here is a sampling of the Oils of Annointing and what they’re made from:

Light of Jerusalem - Annointing Oil Based on Galilee Virgin Olive Oil. Perfumed with Frankincense, Myrrh, Casia and Cinnamon.

Anointing Oils Based on Galilee Virgin Olive Oil. Perfumes with Rose oil, or Lily of The Valley or Spikenard oil, or Frankincense oil, or Myrrh oil.

Ruth - Anointing Oil Anointing Oil 8 ml. based on Virgin Olive Oil and perfumed with Myrrh, Jasmin and Sandalwood.

perfume.co.il/SearchResults.asp?Cat=22

Here’s another Company:

Blended Biblical Anointing Oils

Our most popular oil is our Exodus 30:21-29 anointing oil, it is the exact biblical blending of myrrh oil, cassia oil, calamus oil, cinnamon oil and olive oil given to Moses by our Lord. It’s scent is cinnamon like with a wonderful woody aroma. We carry it in both Pure and Blended Oils

biblicaloils.net/anointing_oils_blended_oils.htm?gclid=CJSAlM-iwIkCFR29YAodgzahtw

Sorry, I don’t see Marijuana or Cannibus septiva or Hashish or their seeds. If you are claiming that HEMP seeds were found in some of the clothing or oils used when our Lord walked this earth, you need to remember that a ton of HEMP contains about the same amount of THC as a single Marijuana “joint”. Most plants in the HEMP family are absolutely worthless as a source for THC, and even the seeds in the Cannibus Plant are very low in THC. That’s why the Feds are now allowing the sale of rope and clothing made from HEMP.

And, Smoking wasn’t known about or done in Europe, Africa or Asia until it was brought over by The Spanish Conquistadores from “New World” in the 16th Century.

There is a reasonable argument for allowing the Medicinal use of Marijuana under a Doctor’s Prescription or with the advice of one’s physician. There’s also a rational argument for decriminalizing Marijuana and rationaling all of our Drug laws so they better serve the people they are supposed to protect, but please don’t bring the name of our blessed Lord into this discussion.

The evidence that He would have used or come into contact with these substances is flimsy at best, and it’s wrong to use His name to support the outright legalization of a substance which has harmed members of our society.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Read this

Marijuana smokers get (and die from) lung and respiratory cancers just like tobacco smokers do - in fact moreso. Their risk of heart attack quadruples in the first hour after smoking, so obviously people have died of marijuana-related heart attacks as well.

Want to rethink your statement?

Lily:

These are the sort of Article I’d want to see:

THC in Marijuana seeds - Google List
scholar.google.com/scholar%3Fq%3DTHC+IN+MARIJUANA+SEEDS%26num%3D20%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26oi%3Dscholart

The British Journal of Psychiatry (2001) 178: 101-106
The Royal College of Psychiatrists
Pharmacology and effects of cannabis: a brief review
bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/178/2/101

LANCET November 14, 1998
Adverse Affects of Cannibus (Seminar)
cannabisclub.ca/articles/1998_hall_lancet_1.pdf

Journal of Analytical Toxicology Volume 24, Number 8, November/December 2000, pp. 715-717(3)
GC–MS Analysis of the Total 9-THC Content of Both Drug- and Fiber-Type Cannabis Seeds
ingentaconnect.com/content/pres/jat/2000/00000024/00000008/art00008

Journal of Analytical Toxicology Volume 24, Number 8, November/December 2000, pp. 691-698(8)
Evaluating the Impact of Hemp Food Consumption on Workplace Drug Tests
ingentaconnect.com/content/pres/jat/2001/00000025/00000008/art00005

There are more artcles on the list, but these should be enough to have anyone concerned with the effects of Cannibus and it’s primary Drug THC and to understand that smoking marijuana is not as harmless as it proponents would have us believe.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

 

[CRW]

The reverse reasoning makes more sense.

After all, alcohol kills 50-100 thousand americans a year, tobacco kills 400,000, and yet marijuana has killed 0 people in the entire world in every year combined since the beginning of history.

Do we know how many lung cancers marijuana has caused? How many car accidents? Drug induced Killings, etc. Divorces. Can you provide a source for your zero comment?

 

[Mirdath]

Do we know how many lung cancers marijuana has caused? How many car accidents? Drug induced Killings, etc. Divorces. Can you provide a source for your zero comment?

That was a rather irresponsible comment on Ian’s part – oh well, one takes a risk when hyperbole is introduced. And marijuana, being illegal, is sadly under-represented when it comes to scholarly work; after all, where are you going to get it for your experimental groups?

(if I may interject here, the phrase ‘drug induced killings’ is laughable when the drug being discussed is marijuana. PCP, now, that does cause psychotic behavior. Or highly addictive drugs like methamphetamine, cocaine, or heroin – people have killed over those, not because of the drug directly though)

It is, however, quite provable that marijuana is physically far less harmful than tobacco or alcohol. Look around on that erowid link I posted earlier.

Marijuana is less harmful than tobacco, and indeed the plant has many other uses – where do you think ‘hempen rope’ comes from? It can be made into paper as well, reducing the need for logging; and, of course, it’s a useful medicine. To place it in the same category as heroin (which itself has legitimate uses) and methamphetamines is nothing short of ridiculous.

 

[CRW]

That was a rather irresponsible comment on Ian’s part – oh well, one takes a risk when hyperbole is introduced. And marijuana, being illegal, is sadly under-represented when it comes to scholarly work; after all, where are you going to get it for your experimental groups?

(if I may interject here, the phrase ‘drug induced killings’ is laughable when the drug being discussed is marijuana. PCP, now, that does cause psychotic behavior. Or highly addictive drugs like methamphetamine, cocaine, or heroin – people have killed over those, not because of the drug directly though)

It is, however, quite provable that marijuana is physically far less harmful than tobacco or alcohol. Look around on that erowid link I posted earlier.

Marijuana is less harmful than tobacco, and indeed the plant has many other uses – where do you think ‘hempen rope’ comes from? It can be made into paper as well, reducing the need for logging; and, of course, it’s a useful medicine. To place it in the same category as heroin (which itself has legitimate uses) and methamphetamines is nothing short of ridiculous.

I have read articles that individuals discussed that after marijuana, they did not recall why they killed an individual. I would agree that is not as dangerous or reportedly as dangerous as some other drugs.

 

[Mirdath]

I have read articles that individuals discussed that after marijuana, they did not recall why they killed an individual. I would agree that is not as dangerous or reportedly as dangerous as some other drugs.

Source, please?

 

[CRW]

Source, please?

Teen driver charged in passengers’ deaths

Aug 3, 2006 | Chicago Tribune

An 18-year-old was charged with reckless homicide after authorities said he crashed a pickup into a tree while under the influence of marijuana, killing his 16-year-old sister and two other teens. Comment?

Ferdinand teen charged in crash that killed sister, two others

Aug 3, 2006 | The Courier-Journal

The Ferdinand teenager who crashed his pickup into a tree, leading to the deaths of three people in June, was high on marijuana at the time of the crash, according to documents filed in Dubois Circuit Court …
This took less then one minute on the internet to locate. I did not keep the other accounts but if you google you can fine many diffferent stories.

 

[Mirdath]

Teen driver charged in passengers’ deaths

Aug 3, 2006 | Chicago Tribune

Aug 3, 2006 | The Courier-Journal

Car accidents a psychopathic killer do not make. Marijuana use impairs driving – I am fully aware of that. But murderous rampages? Not to my knowledge; the only victims of marijuana users’ drug-fueled urges that I am aware of are Cheetos.

 

[Alexius]

It is rediculous that the reason cannabis is illegal in the U.S. is because the hemp industry was growing and outselling the industry build by William Randolph Hurst. He was losing money, so he used his political influence to convince the Senate to outlaw cannabis. Can it cause indirect death? Yes. Should a Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant use it? No. Is the government right to have outlawed cannabis? Absolutely not! As a matter of fact, the government broke their own law by benefitting from such a law through the revenue brought in by Hurst’s industry. The government has in fact brought part of this “War on Drugs” on itself. But the law is the law, and as Christians, we are called to obey our authorities. Just my :twocents: …

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[Mirdath]

Should a Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant use it? No.

That’s an interesting question actually – if not for its current legal status, would using such a substance be considered morally acceptable? One’s body may be a temple of the holy spirit, but one burns incense in temples, after all… and I don’t recall the Catholic Church taking up a particular moral stance on smoking tobacco (on alcohol it is supportive of use in moderation).

 

[Alexius]

Mirdath: That’s an interesting question actually – if not for its current legal status, would using such a substance be considered morally acceptable? One’s body may be a temple of the holy spirit, but one burns incense in temples, after all… and I don’t recall the Catholic Church taking up a particular moral stance on smoking tobacco (on alcohol it is supportive of use in moderation).

I think it would be. Cocaine, morphine, and many other substances were considered acceptable untill people were either addicted or ODed. For a while around the turn of the century, cocaine was thought to cure morphine addiction. It did, but then you had a cocaine addiction. In Germany as late as 1922, cocaine use was seen as humorous. There were even cartoons of people using it!..I guess I just don’t see how one benefits from marijuana or tobacco smoking…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[IanBoyd57]

Do we know how many lung cancers marijuana has caused? How many car accidents? Drug induced Killings, etc. Divorces. Can you provide a source for your zero comment?

Erm… I already posted this…but here’s another link in case you paid no attention…

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729_pf.html

Title “Study Finds No Cancer-Marijuana Connection”

How many car accidents does talking on cell phones cause?

Are cell phones themselves harmful then?

Or is it just the irresponsible use of them?

And the number of accidents caused by marijuana is not even reasonably comparable to the number caused by alcohol or (probably) cell phones (although there haven’t been any studies on cell phones that I’m aware of).

Even so, where did I advocate driving while high?

Exactly.

And divorces? I’ll suppress a chuckle, but either way, that’s peoples personal lives, and you don’t have the authority to mess with that. You might say as christians we should respect the sanctity of marriage more and should strive hard to reduce divorces in our society, except that…

Divorce Rates

Jews 30%
Born-again Christians 27%
Other Christians 24%
Atheists, Agnostics 21%

So you’re not in a moral high ground to attempt to ban everything that could contribute to divorce.

And this is all ignoring the fact that your claim that marijuana causes divorce was completely unsubstantiated and you provided no sources.

Although I’m sure it happens as people get divorced for all sorts of reasons, I doubt it is a significant number unless you provide a source, but even then, not anyone else’s business.

Whoops, I left out the other one, drug induced killings.

Marijuana makes people more peaceful and less violent. Alcohol makes them more violent. Sure, you may be able to find a few examples, but those are only of people who were violent to begin with. Unless you can find a significant number of nice people who suddenly became violent and killed people when high, that’s even close to with alcohol, then there’s no debate there.

 

[IanBoyd57]

That was a rather irresponsible comment on Ian’s part – oh well, one takes a risk when hyperbole is introduced. And marijuana, being illegal, is sadly under-represented when it comes to scholarly work; after all, where are you going to get it for your experimental groups?

(if I may interject here, the phrase ‘drug induced killings’ is laughable when the drug being discussed is marijuana. PCP, now, that does cause psychotic behavior. Or highly addictive drugs like methamphetamine, cocaine, or heroin – people have killed over those, not because of the drug directly though)

It is, however, quite provable that marijuana is physically far less harmful than tobacco or alcohol. Look around on that erowid link I posted earlier.

Marijuana is less harmful than tobacco, and indeed the plant has many other uses – where do you think ‘hempen rope’ comes from? It can be made into paper as well, reducing the need for logging; and, of course, it’s a useful medicine. To place it in the same category as heroin (which itself has legitimate uses) and methamphetamines is nothing short of ridiculous.

Exactly.

Although, I still maintain that my hyperbole was correct.

If anyone can find an example of a conclusive marijuana overdose, I will concede my point.

Not likely seeing as you would have to smoke around 800 joints in under 15 minutes.

Good luck.

 

[Mintaka]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

 

[Mirdath]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

I didn’t know the Catechism explicitly mentioned that, thanks

I do question it in some ways though: alcohol, caffeine, and nicotine are all drugs, yet the Church has nothing against the moderated use of those that I am aware of. Without moderation, at least the first and third inflict just as grave damage on health and life as the use of any illegal drug to excess. Further, the Church itself actually uses alcohol in the sacrament of the Eucharist.

The ‘scandalous practices’ mentioned in the second paragraph are a direct result of those substances’ legal status. Were they not on the black market, they’d be bought and sold and produced in the same way as any other commodity. If most currently illegal drugs were legalized, they’d no more contribute to ‘co-operation in evil’ than alcohol does right now.

 

[Mintaka]

I know plenty of people who use nicotine and alcohol in moderation, and who live good, honest lives. They are trustworthy people. In fact, every brewer and vintner I know is orderly of life and generous of time and talent in both their jobs and many hobbies, and can be trusted with one’s life or one’s children. They are the salt of the earth.

Once I knew plenty of people who assured me that they used marijuana only in moderation. Yet when I saw them on marijuana, they were acting like idiots and endangering themselves and others. And they weren’t leading otherwise good lives, I assure you. In fact, they didn’t find their way until they dumped the stupid weed and shed their silly delusions about how marijuana was oh so harmless.

(I will add that cigarette smoke is stinky, but marijuana brings reek to a whole new level and range. Especially since the inevitable associated use of cheap incense just makes the stench worse. If people are willing to ban nicotine for the smoke, I’m dang sure marijuana shouldn’t be anywhere near anybody’s nose or lungs.)

Hard drugs I wouldn’t give to a dog. I suppose one might legalize them in the sense that one might use them for toilet cleaners, if you put them in bottles with big skulls and crossbones attached. But I doubt they make very good toilet cleaners.

 

[Palamite]

There are too many completely unqualified and unduly biased views of cannabis out there right now for most people to be able to come to a sane conclusion on the topic.

Cannabis use has never been demonstrated to do permanent physical damage, nor has it ever been recorded to have killed anyone. This cannot be said of either alcohol or tobbacco, which most will only see as being (at worst) “venial” matters of indulgence.

The only objection then would be if the only form of cannabis use was one which was abusive and caused a suspension in the use of reason and impaired the proper excercise of the will.

The problem for the prohibitionists is, this is not the case. Unfortunately, however, because of it’s illegal status and the “culture of binging” which dominates the english speaking west (especially the United States), generally most people who indulge in an occassional “toke” do so in excess, much like college kids with beer or liquor.

What most do not understand is that the THC percentages in cannabis varies, dependent upon strain (genetics), cultivation techniques, and handling during the drying and curing stages. This is further regulated by how and in what quantity one consumes cannabis (ex. whether one is smoking pure ground up flowers from the female plant, the potent resin from those flowers compressed as hashish, etc.) For example, in countries with relatively liberal laws on cannabis use and possession (where you’ll find “hash bars” and the like), it’s very common for people to stroll in on a lazy afternoon with some friends, and smoke “joints” which contain significant amounts of pipe tobbacco, or other flavoured (non psychoactive) herbs. The result? The buzz is significantly milder.

The simple truth is that the various forms of cannabis prohibition (most especially that found in the United States) are unreasonable and unnecessary laws. What many don’t know, is that in America, these laws came into effect at the same time as did those outlawing alcohol. The only difference really being, that unlike the hooch, cannabis was mainly the recreational substance of choice of black and hispanics - white folks hadn’t really had much exposure to it. Hence, there wasn’t the same kind of interest in overturning cannabis laws as there was for alcohol.

Sadly, few people take the lessons of alcohol prohibition seriously enough to see how it’s 100% relevent to cannabis prohibition. The relationship between criminal elements and cannabis is caused by prohibition - of itself, when there is no threat of legal sanction, cannabis is a relatively easy plant to cultivate outdoors, and can be propigated as easily as any other plants (seeds, clones, etc.) Decriminalization would not only make it a cheap (perhaps even relatively difficult to sell), but would obviously totally cut out this criminal element. Just as alcohol prohibition created the mafia as we now know it, cannabis prohibition has put uncountable amounts of money into the coffers of otherwise unsavory characters.

The same can be said of cannabis’ alleged “gateway drug” status. Because it is criminalized, all too often the people selling it will be involved in the sale of other illegal substances, including those which are genuinely harmful. Criminalization has lumped this plant into a category it would otherwise not naturally fall into, certainly not any more than beer or spirits.

In the end, people should always be leary of governments (especially those which do not pretend to be Christian in principle, which includes all first world western nations) micro managing their behaviour and trying to protect them from themselves. Very often such attempts have less to do with the common good, and are instead motivated by other factors. Consider for a moment that most of the resources of the “war on drugs” in America, including such in-school indoctrination programs like “D.A.R.E.” receive a lot of funding from the alcohol and pharmeseuitical industry, both of which have a vested interest in their own products receiving no competition (let alone competition which, if legal, could be acquired for a song.) There is also a puritanical fanaticism behind this too, just as there was with alcohol prohibition - a deep animosity toward anything which may just be a little too much fun, even when you cannot factually demonstrate how it’s actually hurting anyone.

 

[Palamite]

Case in point, related to the above. Here in Canada (where the laws are more lenient, though still technically cannibas is a controlled substance), some drug company is now trying to market an inhaler drug called “Sativex.” What it is, is the active medicinal ingredients of cannibas, but turned into a mist inhaler. Packaged up and sufficiently toyed with so as to be patentable, it sells for an exhorbinant price. Funny, how once “big medicine” finds a way of packaging something and charging a fortune for it, feelings about the medicinal value of cannabis seems to change in the halls of power, hmmm?

Or, you could get pretty much the same effects of this Sativex by smoking normal herb, or if you’re concerned about the smoke, using a vapourizer (which causes no combustion, but vapourizes the active chemicals), and get the same effect, and probably for cheaper even on the black market (one can only imagine how low the price would go were it completely decriminalized.) Indeed, even making one’s own tonic sprays is possible, and they would work pretty much the same as this jazzed up “Sativex” scam.

Don’t be duped folks - cannabis prohibition has nothing to do with safeguarding the health and well being of either you or your children. And now days, with the incredible amount of money (wasted) by governments upon cannabis prohibition, there is something of a self justifying business on the part of law enforcement, to keep on going with this. It’s like anyone in governement or public service who receives a budget from the public coffer - it’s a livelihood for them, and they’re going to have to do their best to justify that budget or it risks getting cut off. Even if that means not telling the whole truth, or simply outright lying.