Ok, you agree that abortion is murder, and murder is wrong, but you don’t think the Bible tells us this?
This is what we understand the angel to mean. Full of Grace = without sin. Sin cannot exist where there is a fullness of grace.
Where in the text is it speaking of Mary being sinless all her life? That’s what you want to look for.Yes!
And to justasking…do you follow the meaning behind the Greek text identifying Mary as having been full of grace in both directions of time…i.e. all the way back to her conception, and forward forever. If you don’t see it, well then I guess you don’t!
The scriptures don’t tell us explicitedly abortion is murder but we know it is because the fetus is a human being and killing a human being is murder which breaks the commandment.
Where does it say this in the defintion that “Sin cannot exist where there is a fullness of grace”?
i asked this question eleswhere to those who want to support the marian doctrines with “implicit” arguments. My question is this:Whatever label you want to use, at least you understand that concepts can be drawn from Scripture that aren’t explicit with a casual reading. That’s the first step toward understanding Mary!
Not really. I think that is what YOU are looking for. Catholics understand that the Angel’s greeting “Hail, full of grace” means that Mary was already filled with Grace prior to her being overshadowed by the HS. Since you don’t have the Sacred Traditions to confirm this for you, and you are not finding the specific words “sinless all her life” in the text some where, then you reject the Teaching.
Not really. I think that is what YOU are looking for. Catholics understand that the Angel’s greeting “Hail, full of grace” means that Mary was already filled with Grace prior to her being overshadowed by the HS. Since you don’t have the Sacred Traditions to confirm this for you, and you are not finding the specific words “sinless all her life” in the text some where, then you reject the Teaching.
1 John 3:8-9
Not really. I think that is what YOU are looking for. Catholics understand that the Angel’s greeting “Hail, full of grace” means that Mary was already filled with Grace prior to her being overshadowed by the HS. Since you don’t have the Sacred Traditions to confirm this for you, and you are not finding the specific words “sinless all her life” in the text some where, then you reject the Teaching.
1 John 3:8-9
When it is received from the Apostolic Sacred Oral Tradition, and endorsed by the Magesterium. Something like the Trinity, and the hypostatic union.
Do you have a couple of examples of what these Traditions are?
“Something like the Trinity, and the hypostatic union.”
There’s nothing implicit about it. Sorry justasking4, but you’ve offered no counter-explanation for the Greek naming Mary “full of grace” from conception to forever, so I find no use in explaning the same thing to you again without your own exegesis of the passage.
Here what this word phrase means in greek— To grace, highly honor or greatly favor. In the NT spoken only of the divine favor, as to the virgin Mary in Luke 1:28, kecharitōménē, the perf. pass. part. sing. fem. The verb charitóō declares the virgin Mary to be highly favored, approved of God to conceive the Son of God through the Holy Spirit. The only other use of charitóō is in Eph. 1:6 where believers are said to be “accepted in the beloved,” i.e., objects of grace.
Kecharitomene, the perfect passive participle, shows a completeness with a permanent result. Kecharitomene denotes continuance of a completed action (H. W. Smyth, Greek Grammar [Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1968], p. 108-109, sec 1852:b; also Blass and DeBrunner, p.175).
From here.
Thanks to Miserissima for articulating the meaning of the word again. As for me, sorry j.a. I don’t think you are reading what people are posting. I’m going to have to appeal to Titus 3:10 here and bid you God’s blessings.
Before you Titus 3:10 me, please read Luke 1:26-38 and see if you find any thing there about Mary being without sin all her life.
Now apply this definition to Luke 1:26-28 and see if there is anything about Mary being without sin her entire life? Is there anything here about her moral purity being a requirement for her to carry the Christ?
No, justasking4. I have received this instruction from the Teaching Authority appointed by Jesus, which does not speculate, but holds fast to all that Jesus said to do, and to teach.
You are persistently complaining that the Church has not interpreted the verses. Well, here is one that has been! We understand the greeting of the angel to say that being full of grace is a completed action in the past that persists indefinitely into the future. I know there are a number of Protestant dictionaries that state differently (I have some on my shelf).
I don’t need “proof”, since I have placed my faith in Jesus, and have trust in the teaching authority that He has placed over me. I also do not need to “show” where and by whom the Sacred Tradition begins because I know that this is also from Jesus. He was brought up breathing and praying in the Sacred Tradition as a Jew, he used it to teach His apostles.
Yes, they are considered equally with the written Teachings (refer to the verse in my signature) Some of those Sacred Traditions is that Mary remained sinless throughout her life, that she had no more children, and that she was taken that she was taken up, body and soul into heaven when her time on the earth was completed. These Sacred Traditions are shared by the Orthodox (Eastern Churches) and are not a “Latin” or “Roman” invention or assumption, as you seem to believe.
This is a very interesting question. Yes, in the sense that Jesus took His humanity from her, and could not take anything unto Himself that had been tainted by sin. No, in the sense that Mary’s personal choices not to sin did not meet a requirement of purity. It was God’s grace that made her pure, so that she could be the Mother of God (not just “carry” but create within her). Her subsequent moral purity was her choice to continue abiding in the HS and God’s grace throughout her life, an option that is available for all of us.