Marital Bliss?

[mercywithgrace]

I have been struggling with this for 5+ years. It has gotten a little better or rather I have come to more peace about it. I do not orgasm easily in fact it rarely happens if I’m not on top or in a similar position. My husband and I are extremely open about all our thought on sex and I have shared all my frustration and he has shared his not feeling good enough for me etc. So my question is this :
Do I just not try to climax and just enjoy what we do share or can I masturbate after he has already climaxed (in me)?
We are open to children (have 3 so far ) and we have tried plenty of positions and such I am just one of those few women who doesn’t have a “g spot”. I am not sure if this is an appropriate question for this site but I want solid Catholic thoughts on this. I am willing to carry this as a cross but if I don’t have to I would love to be enlightened!

 

[CatholicRaven]

If you can figure out what’s different about the times you DO orgasm, then you might be able to re-create that more often. For instance, perhaps you two need to take more time with foreplay, or it could be that when he sends you a flirty text from work telling you how beautiful you are, you start thinking about him and feel more “in the mood” when he gets home. Or maybe you need to “de-stress” for a half hour before bed so you can get other things off your mind. Or maybe you need to just talk about your day for a little while first so you feel more connected before sex. Or whatever it is.

If you can reach orgasm through masturbation, then why not show your husband how and where to touch you during sex so that you have a better chance to orgasm? I mean, don’t just talk about it, but hold his hand and guide him there. Use his hand as if it was your own. Let him know what feels good, and gently guide him to change what doesn’t.

But definitely enjoy what you do have, and try not to stress over it, because if you feel pressured to climax, and he feels pressure to get you there (or feels like a failure if he doesn’t), then sex may become less enjoyable over time, as well. Try not to let your orgasm become the “goal” of sex for either of you, if you know what I mean. The “goal” is to express your love for each other in a physical way, to be unitive (and open to life, as well, of course). So (you probably already do this, but just in case) be sure to let him know that he makes you happy (whether or not you have an orgasm), so that he knows you’re not frustrated in general, just occasionally. Let him know he still gets an “A.”

All that said, I think the “g-spot” is a myth. It’s also *very rare *that both wife and husband will climax at the same time, so it’s generally suggested that couples try to get the wife “there” first and then the husband. That’s not always possible, of course, and there are exceptions, so I’d also *highly recommend *speaking to your priest or a spiritual director about your particular situation–and if there’s a conflict, then definitely go with what they say over anything I said!

 

[mercywithgrace]

I used to be much more stressed about it but now I am fine with it. Just wondering if it was a sin to masturbate directly after he climaxes. Like I said we try different positions and have great foreplay and I am content with the way it is, because I do enjoy our intimacy every time (and always tell him so). I just feel that if I force his hand or him to do something for me than I would be abusing “us” or using him as a vehicle for my pleasure, even if he is thoroughly enjoying himself. So am I being tempted by this thought of “what if?” or is it a legitimate question. I may only figure this out through prayer and confession

 

[averagejoe11]

I’d highly recommend checking out the book “Holy Sex…” by Dr. Gregory Popcak. He does an excellent job discussing all of the issues you mention.

The following is a summary of the some of the info from his book.

Masturbation is the stimulation of the genitals done in place of, or in opposition to, the uniting or life-giving aspects of intercouse. You stimulating yourself to orgasm post intercouse would, therefore, not be considered masturbation and should not be called such.

Also, marital aids, such as vibrators, can be used by a couple as part of foreplay, in order to help the woman “catch up” with her husband on the arousal curve. They may also be used to help her achieve climax in instances where the man has already climaxed and he is simply unable to continue vaginal intercouse. He does make some cautions about these types of devices, i.e., they should never be used for true masturbation which is a selfish and isolating act and that they should never be a substitute for real intimacy.

It may be best to consult the book for additional understanding or him directly at the Pastoral Solutions Institute. God Bless.

 

[CatholicRaven]

He wants to love you and please you through touch, and it’s within the context of the marital embrace, so I’m not sure how that would be abuse or using him for your own pleasure. Guiding his hand is not the same as forcing his hand.

What I’m suggesting is simply helping him to learn how to show you love physically. Just as you could also tell him what kinds of things help you feel loved emotionally (quality time, appreciative words, etc.), so too can you help him know how to best show you love physically. If you were fantasizing about someone else, or if your pleasure was the only part of sex you cared about, then I could see how it would be using him… but that’s not what I was suggesting, and I’m sure it’s not what you would do.

I don’t know about you masturbating after he climaxes, whether that is acceptable or not. I would think it would be better if he was to pleasure you, rather than for you to pleasure yourself, but I honestly don’t know. I do think it’s a legitimate question, so I’d again suggest a spiritual director or a priest to answer it.

Sorry if I’ve been no help here.

 

[mercywithgrace]

Thank you! Both of you have been helpful. Sometimes its easier for me to work through things when they are written out and bounced off others. Peace…

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

All that said, I think the “g-spot” is a myth. It’s also *very rare *that both wife and husband will climax at the same time, so it’s generally suggested that couples try to get the wife “there” first and then the husband.

Speaking from experience, it’s not only possible, but can happen almost on cue. The problem is, the details are graphic and likely to get this thread shut down. The setup, though, typically requires the spouses to be in the mood and be in love with each other. The rest deals with positioning, and I’ll leave it at that.

 

[Apolojez]

I have been struggling with this for 5+ years. It has gotten a little better or rather I have come to more peace about it. I do not orgasm easily in fact it rarely happens if I’m not on top or in a similar position. My husband and I are extremely open about all our thought on sex and I have shared all my frustration and he has shared his not feeling good enough for me etc. So my question is this :
Do I just not try to climax and just enjoy what we do share or can I masturbate after he has already climaxed (in me)?
We are open to children (have 3 so far ) and we have tried plenty of positions and such I am just one of those few women who doesn’t have a “g spot”. I am not sure if this is an appropriate question for this site but I want solid Catholic thoughts on this. I am willing to carry this as a cross but if I don’t have to I would love to be enlightened!

I don’t know about “solid” but I can give you my advice and discuss matters like these with you. But would likely need more personal information to help.

Some women do not know if they orgasm because they didn’t “feel the earth move”. How do you normally feel after sex? Are you relaxed and content or are you nervous or edgy? Have you tried masturbating during intercourse? It’s normal for many women to need additional manual or oral stimulation to achieve a climax.

My wife did not know she had a “g spot” until I showed her so I would like to ask how you know you do not have one? As monk explained, this thread is not the place for details but you can always search online for a “how to” guide.

 

[sainthumbert]

Masturbation is the stimulation of the genitals done in place of, or in opposition to, the uniting or life-giving aspects of intercouse. You stimulating yourself to orgasm post intercouse would, therefore, not be considered masturbation and should not be called such.

That is an interesting definition. The Catechism says, “By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure.” I guess if you change the definition you can justify anything.

I am not saying it is right or wrong, I am just saying it seems to be a convenient “definition” used in that book.

 

[shipwrkd]

That is an interesting definition. The Catechism says, “By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure.” I guess if you change the definition you can justify anything.
I am not saying it is right or wrong, I am just saying it seems to be a convenient “definition” used in that book.

If the Marriage Act satisfies both the unitive and procreative requirements, does it really matter which “definition” the wife uses to keep the Marriage strong and exciting? God didn’t make “junk” and I’m sure He had a good reason for putting parts where He did and usually those parts don’t match up…if ya know what I mean.

Sexologists state that the curve in arousal in woman is different from that in man — it rises more slowly and falls more slowly. (p. 272) The man must take this difference between male and female reactions into account, not for hedonistic, but for altruistic reasons. (p. 272) There exists a rhythm dictated by nature itself which both spouses must discover so that climax may be reached both by the man and by the woman, and as far as possible occur in both simultaneously. (p. 272)
Non-observance of these teachings of sexology in the marital relationship is contrary to the good of the other partner to the marriage and the durability and cohesion of the marriage
itself. (p. 273)

Perhaps the quote from this book called “Love and Responsibility” by Karol Wojtyla, better known as Pope John Paul II is more convincing.

 

[thewanderer]

That is an interesting definition. The Catechism says, “By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure.” I guess if you change the definition you can justify anything.

I am not saying it is right or wrong, I am just saying it seems to be a convenient “definition” used in that book.

You left off the rest of that paragraph. The CCC isnot known for giving precise and compact definitions, you have to read that in context.

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."137 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."138

This second part of this section gives the context and the reason for the first definition. Since the reason for the first definition is that masturbation is seeking sexual pleasure outside of the “sexual relationship which is demaded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of tru love is achieved”.

Is this a confusing way to explain masturbation? Yes. Does it automatically prohibit all stimulation of the genital organs? Not at all. There is at the very least certainly room for debate here. For one, the original definition makes no distinction between stimulation via ones hand vs stimulation via a spouses genitals. So, if you take the original definition strictly then one could claim that it says sex itself is always sinful just as much as one could claim that manual stimulation is always sinful. Personally, I think the key part is not the stimulation, but the “for the sake of pleasure” I think what it is saying is that if your sole reason of engaging in stimulating behaviour is for pleasure then you are masturbating, it doesn’t matter if you are by yourself, or even having sex with your spouse, if the whole point is simply for pleasure than its simply masturbation, perhaps mutual masterbation, but masturbation nonetheless.

 

[fpt]

“The fact of making one flesh, in the human fashion with sexual cooperation” means what???

The conjugal carnal junction, the conjugal union of bodies, the mutual and reciprocal donation of bodies, the donation of nudity, the mutual and reciprocal donation of sexed bodies, the mutual and reciprocal donation of sexed organ, the mutual and reciprocal donation of intimates parts…etc. The right to the body, the right of body, the acces of the body of the other.

The conjugal caresse is coming from the will of God

The right of caresses, the obligation of caresses, the duty of caresses, the conjugal Holy erotism, to give the body and to receive the body (the acces to the body of the other, to offer, to receive, to take, to give, to do, to let doing, to let giving).

The marriage is a sexed and sexual contract.

 

[twoangels]

That is an interesting definition. The Catechism says, “By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure.” I guess if you change the definition you can justify anything.

I am not saying it is right or wrong, I am just saying it seems to be a convenient “definition” used in that book.

And then that same paragraph clarifies: “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”

The point of the teaching is not to give a step by step instructual manual on how to make love in a moral manner. It is simply to affirm the natural beauty of fertility and the communion the spouses share. Intentionally refraining from completing the act naturally can be a type of rejection of the goodness of that fertility. Using contraceptives is also immoral. Making sexual pleasure hedonistic (which it would be if you’re alone) is also immoral. Any opinion beyond that I think is over-interpretative. Every time I see people make such claims, they always seem to reveal a lot of assumptions about sexual function and the types of difficulties they may be imposing on people.

Rejoice in the beauty of the fertility God gave you. Make love. Don’t overthink it.

 

[sainthumbert]

You left off the rest of that paragraph. The CCC isnot known for giving precise and compact definitions, you have to read that in context.

This second part of this section gives the context and the reason for the first definition. Since the reason for the first definition is that masturbation is seeking sexual pleasure outside of the “sexual relationship which is demaded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of tru love is achieved”.

Is this a confusing way to explain masturbation? Yes. Does it automatically prohibit all stimulation of the genital organs? Not at all. There is at the very least certainly room for debate here. For one, the original definition makes no distinction between stimulation via ones hand vs stimulation via a spouses genitals. So, if you take the original definition strictly then one could claim that it says sex itself is always sinful just as much as one could claim that manual stimulation is always sinful. Personally, I think the key part is not the stimulation, but the “for the sake of pleasure” I think what it is saying is that if your sole reason of engaging in stimulating behaviour is for pleasure then you are masturbating, it doesn’t matter if you are by yourself, or even having sex with your spouse, if the whole point is simply for pleasure than its simply masturbation, perhaps mutual masterbation, but masturbation nonetheless.

Good response.

 

[jazzy0710]

Spend more time on foreplay. Maybe take a bubble bath beforehand with a glass of wine:thumbsup: