Marital Conflict due to use of Condom

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mgoforth said:
What makes you “pretty sure”? Please quote a Catholic document.
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I don’t need to quote anything because it’s such common knowledge. The Pope has said over and over how condoms are wrong and are a sin to the purpose of your body. I don’t think any Catholic would disagree with me there.

So, it follows that Condoms are wrong and shouldn’t be tolerated. Just because you keep telling your husband he shouldn’t use condoms doesn’t take away the sin of practising them. To be free of sin you should never use condoms. It’s pretty straightforward.
 
LauraMajestic said:
I’m pretty sure she can’t have sex with a condom at all.

Saying ‘oh but I told him it was naughty’ is a pathetic way to wiggle out of the official catholic statement. Condoms are evil by nature. They should not be tolerated.
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It’s fun when atheists come and post here with no real understanding of Catholic teaching in an attempt to make us look foolish. Trolling or just misinformed?

As has been explained to you, she does not sin by having sex with her husband who is using a condom despite her wishes. I hope that clears it up for you.
 
LauraMajestic said:
I’m pretty sure she can’t have sex with a condom at all.

Saying ‘oh but I told him it was naughty’ is a pathetic way to wiggle out of the official catholic statement. Condoms are evil by nature. They should not be tolerated.
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Not true. See here for the opposite situation (wife on the pill).

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=70098&highlight=condom

As long as the Catholic spouse 1) opposes the use of contraceptives, 2) prays for conversion of their spouse, and 3) periodicaly tries to convince the spouse to stop, it is moral for them to continue marital relations.

Any sin falls on the spouse actively contracepting.

God Bless
 
mgoforth said:
What makes you “pretty sure”? Please quote a Catholic document.
Click to expand...
In lingua latina.
catho.org/9.php?d=g1

Resp. S. Paemtentiariae, sous Benoît XV, 3 juin 1916
3638 Qu.: l. Utrum mulier casu, quo vir ad onanismum exercendum uti velit instrumento, ad positivam resistentiam teneatur? Resp.- Ad 1. Affirmative.

3639 2. Si negative, utrum sufficiant ad resistentiam passivam ex parte mulieris cohonestandam rationes aeque graves ac pro onanismo naturali (sine instrumento) vel potius omnino necessariae sint rationes praegravissimae ? Resp. -Ad 2. Provisum in primo.

3640 3. Utrum ut tutiore tramite tota haec materia evolvatur et edoceatur, vir talibus utens instrumentis, oppressori vere debeat aequiparari, cui proinde mulier eam resistentiam opponere debeat, quam virgo invasori ? Resp. -Ad 3. Affirmative.

Denzinger, In french
Réponse de la Sacrée Pénitencerie, 3 juin 1916
L’usage onaniste du mariage à l’aide de moyens artificiels
3638
Questions : 1. Dans le cas où le mari veut utiliser un instrument pour pratiquer l’onanisme, la femme est-elle tenue de résister de façon positive ?

3639
2. Si la réponse est non pour justifier la résistance passive de la part de la femme, suffit-il de raisons du même poids que pour l’onanisme naturel (sans instrument), ou des raisons de plus grand poids sont-elles absolument nécessaires ?

3640
3. Pour que toute cette matière soit développée et enseignée de façon plus sûre, un homme qui fait usage de tels instruments doit-il réellement être assimilé à un violeur auquel la femme doit donc opposer la même résistance qu’une vierge à l’intrus ?
Réponses : Pour 1. Oui. - Pour 2. Traité en 1. - Pour 3. Oui.

My English translation.

3,638
Questions: 1. In cases where the husband wants to use an instrument to practice onanism, the woman is required to resist it in a positive way?

3,639
2. If the answer is not to justify passive resistance on the part of the woman, is it sufficient reasons for the same weight as the natural onanism (without instrument), or for reasons of greater weight are absolutely necessary?

3,640
3. For all this material is developed and taught more safely, a man who makes use of such instruments should really be considered a rapist which the woman must oppose the same strength as virgin intruder?
Answers: For 1. Yes. - For 2. Treaty 1. - For 3. Yes
 
LauraMajestic said:
I don’t need to quote anything because it’s such common knowledge. The Pope has said over and over how condoms are wrong and are a sin to the purpose of your body. I don’t think any Catholic would disagree with me there.

So, it follows that Condoms are wrong and shouldn’t be tolerated. Just because you keep telling your husband he shouldn’t use condoms doesn’t take away the sin of practising them. To be free of sin you should never use condoms. It’s pretty straightforward.
Click to expand...
Flat out 100% wrong.

Condoms are not “wrong”. They are just a piece of rubber. The immorality comes from how they are used.

Even the Pope said it would not be wrong for homosexuals to use condoms to prevent disease. The homosexual acts are immoral, but not the condom use, since it is impossible for homosexuals to contracept, since conception is impossible.

God Bless
 
bilop said:
Not true. See here for the opposite situation (wife on the pill).

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=70098&highlight=condom

As long as the Catholic spouse 1) opposes the use of contraceptives, 2) prays for conversion of their spouse, and 3) periodicaly tries to convince the spouse to stop, it is moral for them to continue marital relations.

Any sin falls on the spouse actively contracepting.

God Bless
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That’s completely different. You literally cannot stop a woman using the pill. You can’t physically stop her. If you are a woman you CAN stop a man using a condom. You just say:

‘I don’t want to have sex with a condom’

In this way, the man either stops having sex or commits rape. It’s not hard to get your head around.
 
LauraMajestic said:
That’s completely different. You literally cannot stop a woman using the pill. You can’t physically stop her. If you are a woman you CAN stop a man using a condom. You just say:

‘I don’t want to have sex with a condom’

In this way, the man either stops having sex or commits rape. It’s not hard to get your head around.
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I can stop a woman using the pill. My wife doesn’t work, so I could refuse to pay for such medication with my income. Or I could say, “I won’t have sex while you’re on the pill”. But that seems to be dodging the real question.
 
mgoforth said:
I can stop a woman using the pill. My wife doesn’t work, so I could refuse to pay for such medication with my income. Or I could say, “I won’t have sex while you’re on the pill”. But that seems to be dodging the real question.
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In the UK the pill is free so it doesn’t apply over here. Didn’t know you had to pay in other countries.

Well, if you know she is taking it I’d agree. What if she lies to you?
 
LauraMajestic said:
That’s completely different. You literally cannot stop a woman using the pill. You can’t physically stop her. If you are a woman you CAN stop a man using a condom. You just say:

‘I don’t want to have sex with a condom’

In this way, the man either stops having sex or commits rape. It’s not hard to get your head around.
Click to expand...
It’s not different, both cases are a spouse contracepting against the will of the other spouse.

And the Church teaches that one can morally have relations in those situations, in order to preserve the marriage, as long as the other steps I mentioned are taken.

May I ask, why is an atheist trying to be more Catholic than the Pope?

God Bless
 
underacloud said:
LauraMajestic, please read this: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=475359&highlight=spouse+contraception

It should clear up your misunderstanding.
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I’ll retract my statement.

It’s a completely illogical argument the Vatican is spreading though. It makes much more logical sense for a woman to simply refuse condom use and hope her husband understands.

I guess they are actually being conscious of the pain this causes in Catholic-Non Catholic relationships. Take me quite impressed by the Catholic Church. It happens rarely.
 
LauraMajestic said:
In the UK the pill is free so it doesn’t apply over here. Didn’t know you had to pay in other countries.

Well, if you know she is taking it I’d agree. What if she lies to you?
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It’s probably free over here too… 😦 I have no idea, because we don’t use it.
 
LauraMajestic said:
I’ll retract my statement.

It’s a completely illogical argument the Vatican is spreading though. It makes much more logical sense for a woman to simply refuse condom use and hope her husband understands.

I guess they are actually being conscious of the pain this causes in Catholic-Non Catholic relationships. Take me quite impressed by the Catholic Church. It happens rarely.
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So you’re “quite impressed” by a “completely illogical argument”? It does seem that you just don’t like Catholicism and want to attack the Church.
 
mgoforth said:
So you’re “quite impressed” by a “completely illogical argument”? It does seem that you just don’t like Catholicism and want to attack the Church.
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How is that attacking the Church?

I’m saying the argument is so obviously illogical the Church is ignoring it/going around it to stop the suffering it causes to non-catholics.

It’s admirable.
 
LauraMajestic said:
How is that attacking the Church?

I’m saying the argument is so obviously illogical the Church is ignoring it/going around it to stop the suffering it causes to non-catholics.

It’s admirable.
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I don’t agree that it’s illogical at all. But I was surprised that an atheist would admire anyone using an illogical argument. I thought logic over faith was supposed to be the ideal of atheism??
 
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