Marital debt, ABC, and material support

[UbiCaritas]

Wow! I’m really glad you’re feeling better.

But yes, OP, that is the sort of stuff that could be going on in your wife’s head right now. She’s not necessarily sharing even a fraction of it with you–I bet UbiCaritas wasn’t with her husband.

idph.state.il.us/about/womenshealth/factsheets/pdpress.htm

Nope, I didn’t. In my head, if I admitted half of this, or asked for help, a) DH wouldn’t believe me, b) DH would be disappointed in me, and c) if I asked my OB for meds, counseling, or both, he’d report me to CPS and have my daughter taken away.

None of this was true, of course. I’ve since been more honest with DH, and I plan on asking my OB at my next appointment about starting antidepressants proactively as soon as I’ve had this baby, and being up-front with him about how bad things were then. The “call CPS” scenario is one that a lot of PPD moms get in their heads, even though it’s just not going to happen. A lot of moms get PPD–conservative estimates say 10-15%. The problem is, a lot don’t get help, and it can lead to some really, really bad situations.

For the record, I once asked on a board frequented by a lot of health professionals if they’d ever called CPS on a mom with PPD. Every single one said “no.” There were a few cases where they encouraged mom to leave the baby with a husband or relative for 2-3 days while checking into a ward to a) get some sleep (we’re talking serious, haven’t-slept-in-36±hour scenarios) and b) start on medication, but that was it, and those were voluntary cases.

 

[pensmama87]

Wow! I’m really glad you’re feeling better.

But yes, OP, that is the sort of stuff that could be going on in your wife’s head right now. She’s not necessarily sharing even a fraction of it with you–I bet UbiCaritas wasn’t with her husband.

idph.state.il.us/about/womenshealth/factsheets/pdpress.htm

Yup. I had PPD twice (seem not to this time…woooo…) And yes, especially the first time, I told my husband very little. I would only hint because I was terrified he (or someone) would take the baby away. I didn’t have thoughts of harming him, but I felt so incompetent that I was sure if I let my struggles slip I’d never see him again.

The second time I got help sooner and was able to recognize the thoughts for what they were.

 

[UbiCaritas]

Yup. I had PPD twice (seem not to this time…woooo…) And yes, especially the first time, I told my husband very little. I would only hint because I was terrified he (or someone) would take the baby away. I didn’t have thoughts of harming him, but I felt so incompetent that I was sure if I let my struggles slip I’d never see him again.

The second time I got help sooner and was able to recognize the thoughts for what they were.

Good for you! That really is key.

Since I’ve gotten better, I’ve tried to be fairly honest to new moms of my acquaintance (without, I hope, scaring them) about what PPD can be like. I want them to know that they’re not monsters if they feel that way, nor that it’s that unusual, and that if they need to call someone up and say quite seriously “I feel like killing myself because the baby skipped his morning nap,” my response will be “Wow, I’m sorry. Look, what do you want from Starbucks? I’m on my way over to babysit while you go to your OB’s office.”

 

[underacloud]

It’s not a rejection of you. It’s what she’s been taught her entire life.

I agree. The OP’s wife is Protestant, so she will have a very different understanding of contraception. The use of NFP is hard enough for faithful Catholics; I’m sure it seems absurd to faithful Protestants.

She may or may not come to understand the Catholic teaching on this matter. And she may or may not decide to defer to the practice of our faith in this matter over her own. But I completely agree with those who have so far said that now is not the time to tackle this issue.

 

[twf]

Thanks everyone. Some good thoughts.
Yes, I am sure she is very overwhelmed though she claims she doesn’t have PPD. I can’t see her agreeing to see a counsellor, but definitely need to keep her naturally fragile state in mind. To be clear, I’m not demanding anything - I’m certainly not demanding or pushing for sex. To elaborate, the pill use was a previous issue long before pregnancy which she got off of her own volition largely due to negative side effects. At about 6 weeks post partum she said she wanted to get an IUD installed - that’s specifically was I expressed my objections to. We certainly aren’t actively fighting over it- We’ve both left it alone and haven’t discussed it in the last week and a half or so but I know it will eventually come up again. In terms of my questions around the financial side of things- we are in Vancouver, BC and under BC’s public health care system we would still have to pay $300 for the actual installation. (I’m not concerned about the dollar cost- I’m elaborating on my original question about cooperation).

 

[underacloud]

I’d look at it this way:

If you write here a cheque and say “here, go get that IUD inserted”, that would be material cooperation.

If you earn money for your family and she chooses to use some of it against your wishes for this purpose, no that’s not material cooperation.

It is not typically the case (except in extreme circumstances) that the non-working spouse needs to seek approval from the working spouse for all possible spending. It is normal for each spouse to be able to spend a certain amount of family money at their own discretion. That’s all she’s doing here. Rest easy.

 

[jmjZelie]

Here is a link to a flowchart explaining the different forms of cooperation with evil.

archphila.org/HHS/pdf/CoopEvilChart.pdf

I don’t personally believe this situation would qualify for material cooperation with evil, but I thought since that was one of your concerns, I would share this flowchart. It is from the Archdiocese of Philadelphia.

Edited to add: I was referring to being the breadwinner and your wife using wages you earn to pay for doctor visits for obtaining contraceptives or obtaining the contraceptives themselves.

 

[ThePCWife]

I agree. The OP’s wife is Protestant, so she will have a very different understanding of contraception. The use of NFP is hard enough for faithful Catholics; I’m sure it seems absurd to faithful Protestants.

She may or may not come to understand the Catholic teaching on this matter. And she may or may not decide to defer to the practice of our faith in this matter over her own. But I completely agree with those who have so far said that now is not the time to tackle this issue.

begin digression/
There is a range of views among faithful Protestants regarding NFP or FAM, there are plenty who don’t use ABC or barrier methods on unsafe (potentially fertile) days and there are also plenty who don’t subscribe to IUD use and the like. It is certainly not as common as one might like, but that is true with Catholics in aggregate as I am sure we all are painfully familiar with.

/end digression

 

[ThePCWife]

Good for you! That really is key.

Since I’ve gotten better, I’ve tried to be fairly honest to new moms of my acquaintance (without, I hope, scaring them) about what PPD can be like. I want them to know that they’re not monsters if they feel that way, nor that it’s that unusual, and that if they need to call someone up and say quite seriously “I feel like killing myself because the baby skipped his morning nap,” my response will be “Wow, I’m sorry. Look, what do you want from Starbucks? I’m on my way over to babysit while you go to your OB’s office.”

Bless you. That’s really great to see.

 

[underacloud]

begin digression/
There is a range of views among faithful Protestants regarding NFP or FAM, there are plenty who don’t use ABC or barrier methods on unsafe (potentially fertile) days and there are also plenty who don’t subscribe to IUD use and the like. It is certainly not as common as one might like, but that is true with Catholics in aggregate as I am sure we all are painfully familiar with.

/end digression

Yes, fair enough, I should avoid over-generalising.

The wife in this case seems to be from a background that is accepting of contraception; that’s all I really meant.

 

[alphawoman]

I’m just going to put this out there: awareness of the risks of pregnancy after high risk deliveries is rational! Emergency c-sections can be traumatic even if they are conducted with full consent by a respectful and capable medical team. There is a real blow to the woman’s physical integrity and perspective on future fertility that is irreversibly changed by having a child born through unanticipated surgery.

At 8 weeks postpartum after my emergency c-section with my DS, I was just getting to the point where I could sit up or laugh without feeling pain akin to a sprained muscle. I was nursing DS around the clock, being woken 5+ times at night, and generally functioning in survival mode. I didn’t have PPD, but I was exhausted.Sex was the remotest consideration in my mind. The physical healing alone made sex physically intolerable for several months.

If my husband had, at that time, initiated discussions with me about a family planning method I didn’t support, I would not have been receptive to his arguments. I would caution you to be gentle, patient, and focused on the long term. This time will pass, your family life will develop into a new normal, and your wife may be open to discussions once she feels in control of her situation which, I can strongly suppose based on my own experience at 8 weeks pp, I did not.

Congratulations on the birth of your child!!!