Marital debt duty to have sex

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Children are gifts from God to the parents but pregnancy is a burden for the mother only. She has to suffer 100% of the pain and damage it causes.
And usually the responsibility of taking care of a child falls more on the mother than the father because men don’t take long enough paternity leaves from work when a new baby is born to the family. And that has a very negative impact on women’s careers and finances.
So yes, men win because they get the gift for free.
 
chasingcars said:
’ve read most of the comments and they seem pretty absurd to me. I had no idea so many people believe that women are supposed to be sexual slaves to their husbands
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Ok, please quote someone on this thread making this claim. You can speculate all you want, but speculation is just your opinion and your opinion is not useful for a discussion.
 
Marriage involves the creation of rights and duties, to be exercised in charity, so the husband and wife do become “slaves,” in a way, just as we are called to be slaves of Christ, as St. Paul put it.
 
No. If spouses have an obligation to have sex, it’s slavery only for women because women are the ones who have to carry the consequences, not men.
 
What do you mean by consequences? Could you elaborate?

To clarify, there is no obligation to have sex, only to pay the marital debt. Mary and Joseph did not ask for payment of the debt, for instance, though each could have exercised his right.
 
chasingcars said:
No. If spouses have an obligation to have sex, it’s slavery only for women because women are the ones who have to carry the consequences, not men.
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Should we outlaw all contracts because all contracts do is put parties in bondage?
 
By obligation to have sex, I meant the “marital debt”.
You asked me to elaborate so here it is: pregnancy, childbirth and caring for the child are all consequences of sex and they all fall on women. Most men don’t stay at home and take care of their children for even a year or two but rather they just continue working the same way they did before having children.
So, women have to care for their child alone, at expense of their own career and finances. In worst case, they (mothers) find themselves in a situation where it’s difficult (or impossible) to find a job again after spending a long time at home with their child. And that is one reason for gender inequality in families and in the society.
 
I agree that the experiences of men and women in marriage and in the duties of raising children are, by our very biology, unequal, even incomparable. But since marriage requires the consent of both man and women, there is really nothing unjust about it.

And virginity is the higher calling, so why not choose virginity if you see marriage as impeding your secular projects?
 
Ryan1 said:
I am always in the middle of something. If my wife never interrupted me to ask for payment of the marital debt, or exercise her marital rights, when would we ever be intimate?
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As many posters have stated, there is nothing wrong with interrupting an activity to ask for sex. There is something wrong with expecting your spouse to drop whatever they’re doing and have sex with you at that exact moment and not being able to wait until after your spouse has finished the activity to have sex.
 
JoeFreedom said:
I can feel it too. Definitely close.

Some of the views espoused here are quite disturbing and distorted.

So just 2 or 3 thousand more (of the same) comments. LOL
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I agree, there are some disturbing comments on these boards. Also a lot of reading into comments things that are not there. But some on this board do clearly have immoral views.
 
Perhaps because a wife knows how much her husband enjoys certain activities more than watching a football game, despite being quite a fan and not having that particular activity in mind at the moment. I doubt that preference is unusual, I find it interesting that it does not occur to you.

In one statement you say there is nothing wrong with asking,then you end your post with “I am not sure why anyone would”, which is where you started, ie “what kind of wife”. So it certainly appears you think there is something wrong with asking.

You talk of people having unhealthy ideas of sex, I can’t help but think you are not just a little bit affected by puritanism. The idea that anyone would want to spend their idle time together in bed seems to really bother you. The idea that a wife (or husband) has a good understanding of the other’s desires seems to disturb you.
 
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No one has ever said otherwise. What people are opposed to is the idea that someone feels he/she cannot arbitrarily say no.
 
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I wouldn’t say all men. The point of sex is reproduction and pleasure. So it’s not like people went in blind and were like “oh man I’m pregnant, now I gotta ruin my career for it.” It was to be expected and should of already been planned for as to which parent would do what.

There are also stay at home mothers and stay at home fathers
 
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I see nothing wrong with either spouse saying “no sorry not today” and not saying when they want to because that’s still a form of pressure. If it’s a healthy marriage, there will be sex at some point anyway, this the term not today instead of not ever.

This debt should only come into play if one spouse keeps getting denied for like a month or two straight. And if that’s the case, you don’t go “ha, you gotta have sex with me because you have a debt to pay and if you don’t its sinful.” Instead you go to marriage counseling. I don’t even see how this debt thing has any part in a marriage. You don’t hold it over someone’s head and that has been admitted as wrong by @tafan2 and others so what’s the point? It’s just a theory in the back of people’s mind that should motivate you to go to counseling. Try telling a spouse “hey you remember the debt… well I want some sex at some point because I earned it”… never gonna work for you.

If we are just talking about theoretical stuff that never has actual relevance outside of motivating someone to go to counseling, we should of stopped 200 posts ago
 
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No. A woman giving consent to marriage doesn’t mean that her husband has the right have children without consequences, make the wife care for them alone, pay his way out of child-rearing responsibilities and just go on with his career like he did before becoming a dad. Biology is not a valid excuse for men to place their own career above their children or the careers of their wives.

Men don’t have to choose between marriage and “secular projects” so I don’t see any reason why I or any other woman should have to do that either. Virginity is a high calling and it’s likely my calling as well but I don’t think it’s a solution to this problem that mothers have to do more than their fair share (50%) of childcare at the expense of their career and finances. Better solution is that men start to share responsibility and do their share (50)% of all childcare duties. For example, if mom stays at home for the first 1/2/3 years, then the dad should stay at home for the next 1/2/3 years (same amount of years as the mom).
 
Certainly each couple should communicate any expectations they may have regarding child care, earning income, etc. But neither spouse is entitled to a career, nor is the wife obligated to care for the children alone.

It seems you may be confusing what oftens happens (women not having the support of their husbands in child-rearing) with what ought to be. Ideally, husband and wife help each other out.

Men having children “without consequences” is a result more of our culture’s rejection of marriage traditionally understood, with the rise of no-fault divorce, as well as couples getting married with little understanding of marriage.

And children and career are not mutually exclusive for all women. The philosopher Elizabeth Anscombe, one of the greatest philosophers of the 20th century, had 7 children.

But not all married women can have such careers. Edith Stein is another notable philosopher, but had she married she may not be remembered today for her contributions to the field.
 
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