Marital embrace

[spencer2]

Is it sinful to anticipate or think about relations with your spouse before the act? Also afterwards to replay in your mind the event. I am reading Francis De Sales introduction to the devout life and I just finished the part about the marriage bed. He makes a an analogy statement about man having a degraded mind to think about the food and drink before mealtime and even worse to delight ourselves later with the pleasure we had in eating it.

 

[autdrew]

This is what I was told by a priest when I asked this question.
It is normal & healthy in a marital relationship to think about your partner in a sexual way. It helps to keep the bond between you. However, you cross the line when you ONLY think of your partner as there for your sexual desires, to see them as not a human but a piece of meat for you to do with as you please & not reciprocate. It creates selfishness & that is toxic to a relationship. Hope this made sense & helped.

 

[spencer2]

I understand, thanks.

 

[Ender]

There is a recent article at InsideCatholic that touches on the subject of pleasure and the key section is I think this:

The rightness or wrongness of pleasure depends on the rightness or wrongness of the act in which it occurs. The pleasure, as such, is always good, part of the good of creation itself. Thus, when we do something for the pleasure in the act instead of the intrinsic purpose of the act (its own end), we shift our attention away from what is really going on. In effect, we choose to make pleasure our immediate end, not the act’s end in which it occurs.

Read the whole article.

insidecatholic.com/feature/screwtape-on-pleasure.html

Ender

 

[AnneTeresa]

I had the same question but didn’t have the guts to post it. Thanks so much for asking (and for those who answered) this!

 

[violet81]

That Francis De Sales quotes strikes me as silly.

What if you are the one planning and preparing the food?

A lot of chefs would be out of a job if they didn’t dwell on foods capacity to bring pleasure.

 

[underacloud]

Some of the saints were very down on earthly pleasures; sex in particular was singled out as base and a distraction from God. I think Catholic understanding has gradually evolved and JPII did some great work in bringing together a balanced view. Balance seems to be the key. Francis de Sales and Augistine provide caution that sex should not come to dominate our thoughts and desires to that point that our service to God suffers. In marriage, our service to God involves loving our spouse, and I think this should be the basis for considering whether sex dominates our thoughts excessively. When I think about sex, am I thinking about the love shared with my wife, about the union that God has gifted to us? Or are my thoughts more base, focussed more on my own physical enjoyment?

 

[fbl9]

Some of the saints were very down on earthly pleasures; sex in particular was singled out as base and a distraction from God. I think Catholic understanding has gradually evolved and JPII did some great work in bringing together a balanced view. Balance seems to be the key. Francis de Sales and Augistine provide caution that sex should not come to dominate our thoughts and desires to that point that our service to God suffers. In marriage, our service to God involves loving our spouse, and I think this should be the basis for considering whether sex dominates our thoughts excessively. When I think about sex, am I thinking about the love shared with my wife, about the union that God has gifted to us? Or are my thoughts more base, focussed more on my own physical enjoyment?

To me some of the saints that had loose morals before repenting are the ones who are harsh on sexual things.`

 

[fbl9]

. When I think about sex, am I thinking about the love shared with my wife, about the union that God has gifted to us? Or are my thoughts more base, focussed more on my own physical enjoyment?

Where is the dividing line in this, like when does know that their thoughts are more towards the physical enjoyment?

 

[TimothyH]

When I think about sex, am I thinking about the love shared with my wife, about the union that God has gifted to us? Or are my thoughts more base, focussed more on my own physical enjoyment?

FBL9 has it right in his agreement with this.

Thinking about sex with your spouse is not the same as lust. Lust appropriates another human being for one’s own enjoyment and does not love the other for their own sake nor for the gift from God that they actuall are.

Christopher West likens lust to the child who, when asked if he want’s a cookie, gets all excited and can’t stop himself from grasping at it, rather than simply holding out his hands and recieving the gift of the cookie in gratitude.

I suggest reading Christopher West’s “Theology of the Body for Beginners.” Theology of the Body is a wonderful gift given to us by John Paul II and well worth looking into. It will change the way you look at the other sex.

-Tim-

 

[underacloud]

Where is the dividing line in this, like when does know that their thoughts are more towards the physical enjoyment?

That’s a very tricky question.

I prefer not to think of a dividing line (because it’s really quite difficult to draw one), but more of an overall attitude. Is my attitude loving and generous towards my wife? Am I focussed on her needs and enjoyment of the marital act? I think thoughts regarding the physical enjoyment are natural, but are they about my physical enjoyment only or about our physical enjoyment as a couple?

Thinking about the physical enjoyment can be very helpful…thinking back to what she liked or didn’t like and how I might be a better lover to her next time. I think to an extent it’s even helpful to think about what I enjoyed too, since it’s about the shared experience and a healthy sex life needs to be enjoyable to both spouses. But thinking about how much I enjoyed it, without consideration of her, is selfish. So for me it’s more about attitude, less about what particular thoughts are OK or not.