Marital Foreplay and Sex

[RTTRMR]

I know you posted quite a while ago, but in case you haven’t found what you’re looking for, I thought I’d refer you (or others) to this e-book, which outlines a rather long history on this and related topics. The term to search for, though not a direct correlation to what you describe, is amplexus reservatus.

Even though it’s still sort of an “it’s complicated, it depends” kind of answer, I think it satisfactorily illuminates the principles involved, and should help you to determine what to do.

 

[Gerard94]

This has nothing to do with the question posted, but I couldn’t see where else to post it.
So anyway, I’m an 18 year old male and I believe in waiting for marriage to have sex and then use sex for making children. But sometimes I feel I can’t/won’t wait until marriage, my hormones get the better of me.

I just want any help or advice from anyone who has waited or is waiting for marriage to have sex. I would appreciate any advice.

Thanks,
Gerard.

 

[fpt]

I am not hot on Christopher West writings on the part of “as long as you climax inside” everything else is o.k. ** Oral stimulation is unnatural. Light kissing in that area would seem allowable and more proper**.

I am not hot on Christopher West writings on the part of “as long as you climax inside” everything else is o.k.** Oral stimulation is unnatural. Light kissing in that area would seem allowable and more proper. **

What is the diffrence between the oral stimulation of intimate external organs and the light kiss in that area??? Is it not the same thing???

By nature, in the context of the marital act, the kiss, the massage, the touching, the caresse… are done for the stimulation of bodies (the sexual cooperation in the human fashion).

**
Thus, the oral sex is morally wrong, of course.**
But, the oral sexual stimulation, as foreplay, done by husband on her wife is morally permissible, it is totally natural, per se. Only, the abuses or excesses can be morally wrong, under special conditions.

• By nature and in itself, the oral sexual stimulation is not morally wrong.*

 

[TheRealJuliane]

This has nothing to do with the question posted, but I couldn’t see where else to post it.
So anyway, I’m an 18 year old male and I believe in waiting for marriage to have sex and then use sex for making children. But sometimes I feel I can’t/won’t wait until marriage, my hormones get the better of me.

I just want any help or advice from anyone who has waited or is waiting for marriage to have sex. I would appreciate any advice.

Thanks,
Gerard.

You need to look through the archives, there is plenty of material, if you want to start a new thread, do that instead of tagging your question onto an old thread that isn’t directly related. Don’t try to resurrect a dead thread that seems related, just start a new one. There are also chastity groups on CAF.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Let me assure you this is possible and can be not just days but even weeks. It takes practice (a man under 35 may not be able to do it) ,it makes the final session quite intense, best have a strong heart.

And to practise such a disciplined and unusual thing suggests the motivation is primarily lust.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

This thread needs to die.

Let’s analyze the OP’s problem with the Catechism. …

The next post will analyze the case.

Good stuff but maybe a few tweaks:
All sexual activity in a marriage must be BOTH for the good of the spouses and open to life. Separating the procreative from the act is sinful, but so is having procreative sex when it is not for the good of the spouses.
The unitive purpose does not have to be present, it is prob enough that it is not denied.
(Just as the possibility of pregnancy does not have to be present in the infertile phase.)
Hence release from sexual tension (which is not exactly humanly “unitive”) may not be ideal but would seem morally acceptable unless circumstances deem otherwise.

**While contraception is “intrinsically evil”, masturbation is merely “intrinsically gravely disordered”. **
I have never seen such a “merely” comparision before. Can you provide references for it or is this simply your own inference from the CCC quoted (i.e. “masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.”). If it is your own inference I believe it may be mistaken. I believe “masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action” is just another way of saying intrinsically evil. I believe it is put this way because there are some gravely disordered acts that are not intrinsically evil.

**Contraception = Always intrinsically evil. Period.
Masturbation = Always intrinsically gravely disordered and sinful, but there may be mitigating factors that reduce culpability. **
I don’t think you have this quite right. There may also be “mitigating factors” that reduce culpability with respect to contraception. It depends what you mean by “mitigating factors” of course. In english that could include many of the factors listed re masturbation (i.e. those that attenuate presence of free will and understanding).

If you mean “external circumstances” that contextualise the action then I am not sure masturbation can be made any less evil than contraception. (This would not be the case for other “grave” (a technical word) sins that are NOT intrinsically evil).

Masturbation = Always intrinsically gravely disordered and sinful.
What extra does the word “sinful” add in this clause?
I suggest it is no more than a tautology as “intrinsically gravely disordered” says it all.
“Sinful” generally presumes a further judgement of subjective culpability on top of the objective “free-floating” matter/object … which is probably is an added confusion you are not intending in this context?

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

I’m always annoyed when people refer to manual stimulation within the confines of foreplay leading to intercourse as masterbation for the woman. It’s just a fact of anatomy that many (most?) women cannot orgasm without some sort of other stimulation other than intercourse. I sometimes climax during intercourse, but only in times when there was enough stimulation ahead of time for it to happen.

Masturbation is a solitary act. Foreplay can include any number of things, including manual or oral stimulation.

It’s not masturbation for the woman, but neither is it masturbation for the man. Otherwise, I agree with you, and I question the motivations of anyone who would deny to spouses the gift of their own bodies within the context of a loving and procreative act.

To say to a married couple, “kiss here, but not here, touch here, but not there,” haha, you must be joking!