Mark 15:34

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Swamp_Yankee

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“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” Why did Jesus ask this? I have heard two explanations, one that there is an OT reference/profecy of this. The other is that when Jesus took upon himself the world’s sin, God (being pure) could not look or be with Jesus at that moment, and Jesus senced this. Any thoughts?
 
short answer:

Jesus is referencing Psalm 22.

If you read the whole Psalm you will notice a lot of ‘tropes’ or images and metaphors which are woven into the Gospel narratives (especially Matthew and Mark).

This is the richness of our Scripture. Jesus quoted from specific scrolls of the Jews and thus the early Catholic Church assembled those OT books. This might be where you get the notion that this specific reference is to a prophecy.

Psalm 22 ends on a high note:

All the earth shall remember and return to the Lord,
all families of the nations worship before him
for the kingdom is the Lord’s; he is ruler of the nations.
They shall worship him, all the mighty of the earth;
before him shall bow all who go down to the dust.

And my soul shall live for him, my children serve him.
They shall tell of teh Lord to generations yet to come,
Declare his faithfulness to peoples yet unborn:
“All things the Lord has done.”

(translation from 1963 Ladies of the Grail, Psalms)
 
Another short:
God can’t abandon Himself. Where ever one Person of the Trinity is, there are the other Two. To claim that Jesus was abandoned by God is to claim that God is separable.

Can’t happen.
 
To further emphasize the reference to Psalm 22, Jesus’ final words, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit” come from Psalm 31 - another lament/praise psalm like 22.
 
Yes, it was very common for Jews to “pray” or recite the psalms. It is likely that the Jews at the cross had no difficulty understanding these phrases as referencing (indeed, flagging with a neon sign for us 2000 years later) those particular psalms.

This is beautifully portrayed in “Jesus of Nazareth” after Jesus cries out, Nicodemus, standing nearby, continues the recitation of the psalm very quietly…as if the enormity of it is dawning on him.
 
I’m sorry, but I don’t see any relation of Christ’s lament, to that psalm. If none of the members of the Trinity can be seperated from each other, then why did Jesus feel forsaken? He wouldn’t have said it if it weren’t true, no? It’s obvious to me that he feels abandoned and cut loose. I hear him saying, Where are you Father, at the time I needed you the most, I am left all alone. Why does he feel this way?
 
Oops, my bad. I just read psalm 22(after my previous post). I get it now, kinda. Does he not feel abondoned, and he is simply reciting the psalmas a prayer?
 
Swamp_Yankee said:
Oops, my bad. I just read psalm 22(after my previous post). I get it now, kinda. Does he not feel abondoned, and he is simply reciting the psalmas a prayer?
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There is probably no earthly way we can possibly conceive of the anguish Christ was feeling at that moment. Consider Is 53…

Yet it was our infirmities that he bore, our sufferings that he endured, While we thought of him as stricken, as one smitten by God and afflicted. But he was pierced for our offenses, crushed for our sins, Upon him was the chastisement that makes us whole, by his stripes we were healed. 6 We had all gone astray like sheep, each following his own way; But the LORD laid upon him the guilt of us all. 7 Though he was harshly treated, he submitted and opened not his mouth; Like a lamb led to the slaughter or a sheep before the shearers, he was silent and opened not his mouth. 8 Oppressed and condemned, he was taken away, and who would have thought any more of his destiny? When he was cut off from the land of the living, and smitten for the sin of his people, 9 A grave was assigned him among the wicked and a burial place with evildoers, Though he had done no wrong nor spoken any falsehood.
10 4 (But the LORD was pleased to crush him in infirmity.) If he gives his life as an offering for sin, he shall see his descendants in a long life, and the will of the LORD shall be accomplished through him. 11 Because of his affliction he shall see the light in fullness of days; Through his suffering, my servant shall justify many, and their guilt he shall bear.
His divine nature was fully aware of the mighty weight of our sins and transgressions. If “hell” for us is God’s absence, this must have been a kind of “hell” for Him—keen awareness of our lack of love for Him. I don’t know that He felt necessarily abandoned by the Father as He is “one in being with the Father”. I do think He was leaving us one of the “last sayings” for us to ponder and pray about.
 
dranzal said:
There is probably no earthly way we can possibly conceive of the anguish Christ was feeling at that moment. Consider Is 53…

His divine nature was fully aware of the mighty weight of our sins and transgressions. If “hell” for us is God’s absence, this must have been a kind of “hell” for Him—keen awareness of our lack of love for Him. I don’t know that He felt necessarily abandoned by the Father as He is “one in being with the Father”. I do think He was leaving us one of the “last sayings” for us to ponder and pray about.
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There’s insite in this view, i think. We do say that hell is seperation from GOD and that HEAVEN is peace and joy in the unity of CHRIST to HIS BODY. Of course it is clear that JESUS meant Psalm 22 . … Because this was common practice, before Scripture had been given verse numbers, thus this saying was like a Chapter title for Psalm 22 and was meant by JESUS utterance to suggest the prayer of Psalm 22 . … Of course JESUS was a man of constant sorrows . … and JESUS is GOD the second person of the BLESSED TRINITY. Thus JESUS has experienced hell at the condemnation of the Jews, for this was the judgement of the people who said they were of GOD, of the covenant of GOD . … Judge not lest you be judged by your measure . … condemn no man (and be not condemned). … But i sadly feel you may be right this was JESUS being obedient unto death, which would of course mean in condemnation of blasphemy, as JESUS was accused, the second death . … but JESUS being GOD though condemned . … did in fact turn this around to destroy the temple, thereby the condemnation falls unto the condemners, the jews . … and the temple is rebuilt in the resurrection . … This of course is expressed much more eloquantly in the Psalms and in Isaiah.

LOVE your neighbor as yourself.
Amen.
 
Swamp_Yankee said:
Oops, my bad. I just read psalm 22(after my previous post). I get it now, kinda. Does he not feel abondoned, and he is simply reciting the psalmas a prayer?
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Not only as a prayer, but he was making a point to the Jews as well. Notice how especially vs. 16-20 correspond with Isaiah 53…and to the scene at Calvary. Our Lord was again letting them know He is the Messiah.
 
Jesus is clearly and explicitly quoting the first verse of Psalm 22, and if one reads the entire Psalm, God does not abandon Him.

Jesus could not quote the entire Psalm because He was dying and could scarcely breathe.
 
epostle said:
Jesus is clearly and explicitly quoting the first verse of Psalm 22, and if one reads the entire Psalm, God does not abandon Him.

Jesus could not quote the entire Psalm because He was dying and could scarcely breathe.
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AMEN!

-Jtown
 
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