Mark 3 and the Immaculate Conception

[Vincent9]

I have trouble reconciling Mark 3 with Catholic teachings on Mary. It seems like she doubted in Mark 3:20-21.

Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”

Now, the greek term for family, as i understand it, could be translated i other ways. So the word by itself does not include Mary. However, after a brief section of Jesus talking with the Pharisees the group that verse 21 is describing arrives in Mark 3:31.

Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him.

So it seems that the group that went to take charge of Jesus in v. 21 arrived in v. 31, and the group included his mother.

Now there are various things that could be said.

1. Despite the fact that the group in v.31 could be the group in v.21, it isn’t.
2. Mary was part of the group in v.21, but she didn’t doubt like the group did.
3. Mary did do what the group did, but it wasn’t a sin (for whatever reason).

I’m not sure if I find any 3 of these options very convincing. it seems like in Mark 3:21-31 shows Mary, along with Jesus’ family, doubting Jesus’ sanity and going to “take charge of him”. The text even says that the whole group (mother AND brothers) sent someone in to call Jesus out.

This section has been bugging me for a while now, how do you deal with it?

 

[JohnDamian]

Before I post my opinion, I shall cite the infallible declaration on the matter;

We declare, pronounce and define that the doctrine which holds that the Blessed Virgin Mary, at the first instant of her conception, by a singular privilege and grace of the Omnipotent God, in virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of mankind, was preserved immaculate from all stain of original sin, has been revealed by God, and therefore should firmly and constantly be believed by all the faithful.
—Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus, December 8, 1854

Now, as to Mark 3:20-21, it tells us how his family went to go and get him - as they only recieved the news after the event (they were not present), then it is likely that only the men of the house set out to retrieve him. This highlights the blindness of the Jwsish people to the ministry of Jesus, after all, mark 3:22 tells us many people were convinced Jesus was possessed - so it would not be unnatural for them to worry - as family members concerned for their relative it is only natural to go to him.

 

[zdon011]

I asked this question as well. But remember, to be in a state of doubt or uncertainty is not sin. Sin is when one knows (or should know) an action/thought is wrong, but enters into it with full consent and will.

St Mark tells us that Jesus’ friends/family thought Our Lord was in a state of delusion, but mentions Our Lady separately. Think of it as a normal family dispute: Our Lady would have gone along with her family even if she did not share their doubts. As a mother, she would have wanted to see her son was OK, and mediate/keep the peace between Him and her doubting family.

Remember that Our Lady accompanied her son on some of his travels, stayed with Him at the foot of the Cross, and was a prominent companion of the Apostles. That suggests very strongly that she totally believed in her son. After all, she completely acquiesced with the will of God in St Luke 1.26-56.

The discussion on this link is directly relevant to your question:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2368839

 

[Vincent9]

zdon,

I appreciate the link. It seems that a lot hinges on the translations of certain sections. The meaning of “he is beside himself” and “they went to take charge of him” are vital (according to one person in that thread, it could be translated “they went to take charge of it [the crowd]”)

I’m not very convinced by the attempts on that thread to simply dismiss the connection of the group in v.21 and the group in v.31. The text flows quite well when the two groups are seen as identical.

I suppose if “he is beside himself” and “they went to take charge of him” are not as bad as they sound in english, it is possible that Mary was part of the group but was not sinning. I’ll have to look a bit more into those phrases in the greek.

 

[NHInsider]

Most important - having perfect knowledge and being sinless are not the same thing. Mary did not have perfect knowledge.

Mistakes are not sin. So even if she was afraid something was wrong (and remember that all she would have to go on would be rumor), that in itself is not sinful.

Mostly I think she was worried because He wasn’t getting a chance to eat. You know how mothers are . . .

 

[Nita]

I have trouble reconciling Mark 3 with Catholic teachings on Mary. It seems like she doubted in Mark 3:20-21.

Now, the greek term for family, as i understand it, could be translated i other ways. So the word by itself does not include Mary. However, after a brief section of Jesus talking with the Pharisees the group that verse 21 is describing arrives in Mark 3:31.

So it seems that the group that went to take charge of Jesus in v. 21 arrived in v. 31, and the group included his mother.

Now there are various things that could be said.

1. Despite the fact that the group in v.31 could be the group in v.21, it isn’t.
2. Mary was part of the group in v.21, but she didn’t doubt like the group did.
3. Mary did do what the group did, but it wasn’t a sin (for whatever reason).

I’m not sure if I find any 3 of these options very convincing. it seems like in Mark 3:21-31 **shows Mary, along with Jesus’ family, doubting Jesus’ sanity **and going to “take charge of him”. The text even says that the whole group (mother AND brothers) sent someone in to call Jesus out.

This section has been bugging me for a while now, how do you deal with it?

Re bolded part:
The Greek does not specify just who the “they” were that thought Jesus was “out of his mind”.
The RSV translation reads:
Mark 3:21 And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for people were saying, “He is beside himself.” This would show only charitable concern on the part of Jesus’ family.

 

[diggerdomer]

I have trouble reconciling Mark 3 with Catholic teachings on Mary. It seems like she doubted in Mark 3:20-21.

Now, the greek term for family, as i understand it, could be translated i other ways. So the word by itself does not include Mary. However, after a brief section of Jesus talking with the Pharisees the group that verse 21 is describing arrives in Mark 3:31.

So it seems that the group that went to take charge of Jesus in v. 21 arrived in v. 31, and the group included his mother.

Now there are various things that could be said.

1. Despite the fact that the group in v.31 could be the group in v.21, it isn’t.
2. Mary was part of the group in v.21, but she didn’t doubt like the group did.
3. Mary did do what the group did, but it wasn’t a sin (for whatever reason).

I’m not sure if I find any 3 of these options very convincing. it seems like in Mark 3:21-31 shows Mary, along with Jesus’ family, doubting Jesus’ sanity and going to “take charge of him”. The text even says that the whole group (mother AND brothers) sent someone in to call Jesus out.

This section has been bugging me for a while now, how do you deal with it?

Catholic teaching on Mary is not solely dependent on the New Testament, and certainly not, similarly, on just one of the four canonical Gospels. Apart from the virgin birth (witnessed only in the Gospels of Matt and Luke, nowhere else in the New Testament!) there are no other Marian doctrines that can be simply deduced from the New Testament.

 

[abucs]

I read somewhere that Mark’s description of His family regarding Jesus as ‘crazy’ or ‘beside himself’ might relate to the fact that he was crossing the Pharisees openly and publicly.

A bit like saying, Jesus must be crazy because He is asking for obvious trouble from the authorities with what He is saying.

If read in this way then the family would be showing concern and worry for Jesus’ physical wellbeing and not doubt over Him or what He was saying.

 

[_L]

we believe Mary to be sinless yes. But that doesn’t mean she had perfect knowledge of all things, the behavior of Jesus was perhaps peculiar to her, and there’s nothing wrong with being confused about what Jesus doing. But we know in the account of the wedding at cana that she was well aware of the abilities Jesus had considered she asked Him to perform a miracle.