Mark 4:11-12

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Periwinkle27

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I have difficulty understanding the part in the Bible (Mark 4:11-12) that says …"And he said to them, 'To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, so that they may indeed see but not perceive and may indeed hear but not understand; lest they should turn again, and be forgiven.’"

I asked my priest but he was just too busy (not being sarcastic, he is running ragged with caring for several communities). If anyone can give me an explanation regarding the bolded words, especially the …“lest they should turn again, and be forgiven” I would appreciate that very much.
Thank you.
 
Bp. Challoner says: “In punishment of their wilfully shutting their eyes (cf. Matthew xiii. 15.) . . .”

Bristow says: "Acts xxviii . . . with their ears they have been dull of hearing, and their eyes they have shut. . . . he spoke in parables, because they were not worthy to understand . . .

Source: Haydock.

Theophylact says: “God gives sight and understanding to men who seek for them, but the rest He blinds, lest it become a greater accusation against them, that though they understood, they did not choose to do what they ought.”

Bede says: “. . .neither in those miracles which He was working, nor in those mysteries which He preached, were they able to acknowledge Him as God. Therefore they are not able to attain to the remission of their sins.”

Source: Golden Chain of St. Thomas.

There’s more in the above sources; those are just excerpts I thought you mind find helpful.
 
I think it helps to read the similar passage in Matthew:
Matthew 13:14-16 With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which says: You shall indeed hear but never understand, and you shall indeed see but never perceive. For this people’s heart has grown dull, and their ears are heavy of hearing, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should perceive with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and turn for me to heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. It’s as though they deliberately block understanding and believing because they recognize if to do so it would mean having to change and convert - something they do not want to do.
 
Ad Orientem and Nita

Thank you both for your explanations. I appreciate them vry much and they are both helpful toward understanding that particular Bible passage.
God bless,
Periwinkle27
 
Here is what the Douay-Rheims Study Bible has for Mark 4:11-12
**11. Them that are without. **Such as be out of the Church, though they hear and read ever so much, they cannot understand. *(Bede in Mark 4) *
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12. Lest at any time they should be converted. These expressions here and elsewhere, we must not so understand as though he speak in parables on purpose and to this end, that the hearers might not understand, lest they should be converted; which were as much as to say, that he would not have them understand, nor be converted. But we must learn the true sense from this very place in St. Matthew (chap, 13) and in the Acts (chap. 28) where our Savior and St. Paul render it thus: They have heard heavily, and have shut their eyes, lest perhaps they might see, and understand, and be converted, and I heal them. Whereby it is evident, that the speaking in parables was not the cause (for many besides the apostles heard and understood); but they would not hear, and understand, and be converted; and so were the cause of their own willful and obstinate infidelity. And therefore also he spoke in parables, because they were not worthy to understand, as the others were to whom he expounded them.
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And here are the footnotes of the Douay-Rheims Study Bible on Matthew 11:13-15
13. Hearing they hear. When God’s word is preached, they properly have ears to hear, that have hearts to obey: and they hearing do not hear, which hear by sense of their body, and obey not by consent of their hearts. (Augustine de dons perfe. C.14)
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15. They have shut. In saying that they shut their own eyes, which St. Paul also repeated, Acts 28, he teaches us the true understanding of all other places, where it might seem by the bare words that God is the very author and worker of this in duration and blindness, and of other sins; which was an old condemned blasphemy, and is now the heresy of Calvin: whereas our Savior here teaches us, that they shut their own eyes, and are the cause of their own sin and damnation; God not doing, but permitting it, and suffering them to fall farther because of their former sins, as St. Paul declared of the reprobate Gentiles. Rom. 1.
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Copeland3,
thank you for your effort. It is very thorough and, together with the other two responses I received, I have finally recognized my own problem with the passage in Mark (and wherever else in the Bible this is addressed).

My inability to grasp the meaning of this Bible passage was due to one single word: lest.

I attributed the word to mean “let them not understand or perceive because if they do, I will have to forgive them.” This implies that Jesus did not really want to forgive them and that was what puzzled me terribly because it is contrary to everything I know about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

It has finally sunk into my thick skull that the passage refers to those who do not want to perceive or hear, to** their **choices, not Jesus’. They purposely do not see what is in front of them or listen to what they hear because they think that will let them off the hook. When they “can’t” see or hear the truth, they won’t feel compelled to turn again to reveive forgiveness, which would also mean that then they have to amend their lives.

So, “lest” is what my problem was. (At least I hope that I am now comprehending.)

I thank each and everyone of you for your help. It took a while to understand but I am so happy now that I think I know what is meant in Mark 4:11-12. It is actually quite a deep thought on a psychological level, referring to perhaps repression, or denial, because in hearing and seeing the truth, these individuals must then mend their ways and adhere to morals and Commandments that may be uncomfortable for them.

Thank you again.
 
Periwinkle27 said:
Copeland3,
thank you for your effort. It is very thorough and, together with the other two responses I received, I have finally recognized my own problem with the passage in Mark (and wherever else in the Bible this is addressed).

My inability to grasp the meaning of this Bible passage was due to one single word: lest.

I attributed the word to mean “let them not understand or perceive because if they do, I will have to forgive them.” This implies that Jesus did not really want to forgive them and that was what puzzled me terribly because it is contrary to everything I know about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

It has finally sunk into my thick skull that the passage refers to those who do not want to perceive or hear, to** their **choices, not Jesus’. They purposely do not see what is in front of them or listen to what they hear because they think that will let them off the hook. When they “can’t” see or hear the truth, they won’t feel compelled to turn again to reveive forgiveness, which would also mean that then they have to amend their lives.

So, “lest” is what my problem was. (At least I hope that I am now comprehending.)

I thank each and everyone of you for your help. It took a while to understand but I am so happy now that I think I know what is meant in Mark 4:11-12. It is actually quite a deep thought on a psychological level, referring to perhaps repression, or denial, because in hearing and seeing the truth, these individuals must then mend their ways and adhere to morals and Commandments that may be uncomfortable for them.

Thank you again.
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Don’t be hard on yourself because that passage does require explanation and clarification, as many passages in Scripture do.
 
Thank you, Copeland. That is a comforting thought. I appreciate it.🙂
 
Periwinkle, this is a difficult passage but you have to know a little about the history of Israel. Jesus is alluding to Isaiah 6. It would take to long to explain it here so instead I will direct you to the best explanation that I have heard of this passage. Dr. Tim Gray has a fantastic series on the Gospel of Mark and the audio is free to download or stream! Listen to the episode entitled ‘the problem of parables.’ This will really help you out. Click Here to go to the download page.

Let us know if that helps you.
 
Jerome81,
Thank you for your reply and the great link. I finally had some time to listen to several of these mini lectures and I think they are great. They help clear up many questions.
I appreciate your reply and it was, indeed, very helpful.
Thank you,
Periwinkle
 
Periwinkle27 said:
I have difficulty understanding the part in the Bible (Mark 4:11-12) that says …"And he said to them, 'To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, so that they may indeed see but not perceive and may indeed hear but not understand; lest they should turn again, and be forgiven.’"

I asked my priest but he was just too busy (not being sarcastic, he is running ragged with caring for several communities). If anyone can give me an explanation regarding the bolded words, especially the …“lest they should turn again, and be forgiven” I would appreciate that very much.
Thank you.
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Thank you for this thread. It didn’t just help you, it helped many others as well! 👍

So they knew deep down that if they were to give Our Lord’s words a fair look, it would condemn their current lifestyles, so they brushed it off as nonsense.

But this got me wondering, maybe there is a second reason also. Maybe these scholars probably wanted some fancy scholarly discourse since they expected the Messiah to be a mighty King, but instead Jesus gave the message in a way an uneducated person could understand, and the pharisees considered themselves too superior to waste their time with parables.
 
Catholic Dude,

I think you are correct. The best way for a message to reach the largest number of people is by simple, easily understood language. Parables work nicely in this regard…and I agree that the pharisees probably thought themselves superior to simplistic language (as they did to most things, lol).
Thank you for your thoughts about this.
 
Jerome81 said:
Periwinkle, this is a difficult passage but you have to know a little about the history of Israel. Jesus is alluding to Isaiah 6. It would take to long to explain it here so instead I will direct you to the best explanation that I have heard of this passage. Dr. Tim Gray has a fantastic series on the Gospel of Mark and the audio is free to download or stream! Listen to the episode entitled ‘the problem of parables.’ This will really help you out. Click Here to go to the download page.

Let us know if that helps you.
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That was very interesting! I will listen to the other files as well.

Thanks for the question and all answers too
 
graciew,
I am glad we both learned something from this thread. Thanks to the generous people who supplied answers, I am much better informed 🙂
 
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