Mark of the beast...

[Karen107]

This is true, but as of 2013, Ive never seen any of these ‘false prophets’ that are able to show the crowds of people great signs and wonders, the only thing Ive seen from people claiming to be a God or divine in nature is talk, nothing else. and God said there will be many of these false prophets, so maybe we are quite a ways off from the end times, the only mysterious signs and wonders I can think of are UFOs, but no one person is claiming to be responsible for them though, so these may be un-related.

It will be interesting when all these false prophets do show up though, that will be amazing to see someone do true magic and bring fire down from heaven, raise people from the dead, etc. And I truly believe 99% of people seeing this will be instantly convinced of anything the false prophet tells them, since it will be impossible to prove how they are doing all these signs and wonders. I rest assured that once i see a person like this, to not trust in them or worship them, but probably still ok to witness some of their magic.

Have you ever wondered why protestants, especially Pentecostals,seem to find that speaking in tongues seems more edifying to them as a Christian than it does to do works of mercy? That’s been my observation at least. In fact they will often fight to the teeth that works of mercy isn’t required of any Christian,when most of what Jesus did on earth was works of mercy. Did you ever see Jesus speaking in tongue and saying this is what you should do as a Christian? Jesus did say we must take care of our poor as a Christian though. So who’s messin with the message that Jesus Christ brought?

 

[njlisa]

Have you ever wondered why protestants, especially Pentecostals,seem to find that speaking in tongues seems more edifying to them as a Christian than it does to do works of mercy? That’s been my observation at least. In fact they will often fight to the teeth that works of mercy isn’t required of any Christian,when most of what Jesus did on earth was works of mercy. Did you ever see Jesus speaking in tongue and saying this is what you should do as a Christian? Jesus did say we must take care of our poor as a Christian though. So who’s messin with the message that Jesus Christ brought?

Many Protestants believe that grace alone saves us – and not works. They would say our righteousness is as filthy rags before the Lord. That doesn’t mean they don’t do good deeds. I was raised a Southern Baptist. (They are not charismatic – so they don’t speak in tongues.) But anyway, taking care of the poor was emphasized. But leading others to Christ was also very important. Good works should be performed out of love of God – but not to earn salvation.

What these groups do share is the belief in the end times as outlined by many of the posters.

 

[jenwha]

Revelation scares the **** out of me.

Are we going to KNOW what this mark is when it manifests itself?

 

[njlisa]

Revelation scares the **** out of me.

Are we going to KNOW what this mark is when it manifests itself?

Wow! Read back through the posts. There are as many theories as there are posters.

 

[Karen107]

Well, I will tell you the Truth as I understand it to be as it is Written in Holy Scripture, taken on its face value

The mark: will be a solid item placed in the right hand or forehead that will be monitored( we have chips implanted today and we have drones and other survailence) or knowledge of his number 666 and name( think credit/debit cards). every move you take,will be known. Everything that needs to be bought or sold will be known. It is a loyalty mark to the man the Scripture calls The Anti-Christ. A visable sign. Today we have crucifixes. Catholics make “the sign of the cross” . That society will have their items collectively referred to as the Mark of the Beast. Satan is imitating those holy things of Christianty. he always imitates.:

Face Value? A book filled with symbolatry?? Right hand (what you do), forehead (what you think), If you are worshipping the beast by what you do, say or think, than you are against Christ and Jesus lists them as adulterers, fornicators, those who practiced magic, etc… There’s no specifics or literal about it with regards to of drones, surveillance or anything else mentioned in the bible. That’s all made up stuff meant to create fear by the false prophets who created them as a conspiracy theories. If a person is sinful, than they will be judged that way, if they are not they will be judged that way at the final Judgement by Jesus Christ… The afterlife is with Jesus Christ in heaven or in hell (the second death). If you are faithful to the church and Jesus Christ you’ll be okay, if you’re not, than it’s a concern for you.

The Anti-Christ: A man who at some point will be in-dwelled by Satan who wants to rule the world. At some point he declares himself “God”.

The "Anti-christ’, was Nero, who led a great army (John said is in the world already) and (as numerous as sands on the sea.) Hitler could have been considered an anti-Christ and he also led a great army… Now consider what happened to Nero, and Hitler irregardless we need to be concerned about our actions and that we persevere and make the right choices and ‘do not fear’ said the Lord God many times in the scriptures. Are you afraid of what will happen? Is your house in order??That’s the thing you have to be concerned with. Do not worry about what can kill the body but what can kill the soul.

The false prophet: the other man sometimes called a beast. he will be anti-Christ’s man who unites the world under one “religion”, a religion devoid of the true Christ . Labels like "Christian, Muslim, Hindu, whatever, will be hate speech. We will all be one. Keep your mouths to your self or you die.

None of that is said like that. We will all be one body of Christ in heaven. The Catholic Religion (the bride of Christ) was started by Jesus Christ to draw all closer to God and it has been successful in doing so and Jesus will return for it.

There are many false prophets said Jesus.

There is no such thing as a get out of hell free card.

Yes, who said there was? But there is a place where Jesus went after he died to do some preaching to those in there and he rose out of there on the third day… So don’t fear,do your best to be holy so you will not spend much time in there after you die, and become a Catholic because Jesus said in John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
And Jesus will return for His bride.

I am not asking anyone to change their beliefs. Your faith in Christ will suffice.

Saying that, if this is the 1000 years of perfect peace promised by the Word of God, we got big troubles.

Where is it said this will be 1000 years of perfect peace? Jesus Christ reigns now and will always as High Priest and Lord over all. Perfect peace comes after this long time (1000 years), but until then we can find peace through Jesus Christ our Lord. Where is Jesus right now to you?? Jesus is alive and well and so will we Lord willing long after we leave our earthly lives.

 

[Karen107]

Many Protestants believe that grace alone saves us – and not works. They would say our righteousness is as filthy rags before the Lord. That doesn’t mean they don’t do good deeds. I was raised a Southern Baptist. (They are not charismatic – so they don’t speak in tongues.) But anyway, taking care of the poor was emphasized. But leading others to Christ was also very important. Good works should be performed out of love of God – but not to earn salvation.

What these groups do share is the belief in the end times as outlined by many of the posters.

I know, these theories were created by Protestants and very anti-Catholic, we’ve all heard them. That’s a cue as to their authenticity.

If a person is not doing what they should be doing as A Christian, as Jesus said, they’re not very Christian. That’s not earning salvation, it’s part of attaining it. Would a pharisees attain salvation if they walked by a person in need and didn’t help them? Of course they have faith, but their actions do not show that. If you read the book of revelation correctly it speaks to sin keeping people away from being one with God. We don’t attain salvation until we are ‘on the beach’ in heaven so to speak. Until then we are still human and still require God/Jesus in our lives for forgiveness and Mercy. That’s the message that is getting lost with today’s Christians. Faith alone saves is not in the bible and in fact there is one scripture that out right disputes that. So why is this being preached?

James 2:14 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[njlisa]

I know, these theories were created by Protestants and very anti-Catholic, we’ve all heard them. That’s a cue as to their authenticity.

If a person is not doing what they should be doing as A Christian, as Jesus said, they’re not very Christian. That’s not earning salvation, it’s part of attaining it. Would a pharisees attain salvation if they walked by a person and didn’t help them? Of course they have faith, but their actions do not show that. If you read the book of revelation correctly it speaks to sin keeping people away from being one with God. We don’t attain salvation until we are ‘on the beach’ in heaven so to speak. Until then we are still human and still require God/Jesus in our lives for forgiveness and Mercy. That’s the message that is getting lost with today’s Christians. Faith alone saves is not in the bible and in fact there is one scripture that out right disputes that. So why is this being preached?

James 2:14 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Why is this doctrine being preached? We could all go back to Martin Luther and the indulgences and all that business. But as the Reformation continued, with more fractures among believers, some chose to distance themselves as much as they could from Catholic tradition and authority. The Baptists are on the far end of that spectrum. The ministers don’t even wear robes. There are no bishops. There is no centralized authority. The ministers serve at the pleasure of the congregation. There is no liturgical cycle. There is no Lent. The Lord’s supper is only celebrated a few times a year, and you can’t have any representational art in the sanctuary.
I became a Catholic because I felt so bereft of tradition and a connection to the history of the Church. I also wanted to flee all the end-of-the-world business, which is what the post is about.

 

[Karen107]

Why is this doctrine being preached? We could all go back to Martin Luther and the indulgences and all that business. But as the Reformation continued, with more fractures among believers, some chose to distance themselves as much as they could from Catholic tradition and authority. The Baptists are on the far end of that spectrum. The ministers don’t even wear robes. There are no bishops. There is no centralized authority. The ministers serve at the pleasure of the congregation. There is no liturgical cycle. There is no Lent. The Lord’s supper is only celebrated a few times a year, and you can’t have any representational art in the sanctuary.
I became a Catholic because I felt so bereft of tradition and a connection to the history of the Church. I also wanted to flee all the end-of-the-world business, which is what the post is about.

And all that speaks to Christians who bear the mark of Christ by wearing crucifixes, having statues of saints and Christian art adorning our homes, all that shows our love for God and heavenly things, which Protestants call idolatry. Those who are missing those Christian articles around them are missing the mark, I believe.

 

[Doxiemom]

I’m not comfortable with my brief words here, and since I can’t edit I’ll rephrase.

What I mean is if the protestants are right and the rapture comes, then we will see Catholics and protestants gathered up together. Even though the catholics weren’t expecting it it came as a wonderful bonus.

If the catholics are right and protestants are wrong about the rapture then the protestants will be dismayed and unprepared.

I don’t know with certainty which interpretation is correct. Deceived or not I am still held responsible for my own actions. That is why I try to learn the possibilities so that when future is made present I will not be surprised.

Best plan is to be prepared.

Exactly.The only addition I would say is taken from the parable of the 10 virgins. You must be listening for that call. and have your lamp prepared. In today’s world that means-look for the signs. Know that the hour is near.

 

[Doxiemom]

Have you ever wondered why protestants, especially Pentecostals,seem to find that speaking in tongues seems more edifying to them as a Christian than it does to do works of mercy? That’s been my observation at least. In fact they will often fight to the teeth that works of mercy isn’t required of any Christian,when most of what Jesus did on earth was works of mercy. Did you ever see Jesus speaking in tongue and saying this is what you should do as a Christian? Jesus did say we must take care of our poor as a Christian though. So who’s messin with the message that Jesus Christ brought?

Come now, there are many a good folk who have died doing missionary work. Many churches that are all ready with supplies for disasters on a moments notice. They dig wells for water. They build houses for the poor. They send medical supplies and medical teams. The do acts of mercy because they are Christians. Doing good works is a natural outcoming from being Christian. It is just they feel this does not earn their way to heaven. It will count when they stand before Christ at the Judgement Seat.

 

[Doxiemom]

Face Value? A book filled with symbolatry?? Right hand (what you do), forehead (what you think), If you are worshipping the beast by what you do, say or think, than you are against Christ and Jesus lists them as adulterers, fornicators, those who practiced magic, etc… There’s no specifics or literal about it with regards to of drones, surveillance or anything else mentioned in the bible. That’s all made up stuff meant to create fear by the false prophets who created them as a conspiracy theories. If a person is sinful, than they will be judged that way, if they are not they will be judged that way at the final Judgement by Jesus Christ… The afterlife is with Jesus Christ in heaven or in hell (the second death). If you are faithful to the church and Jesus Christ you’ll be okay, if you’re not, than it’s a concern for you.

The "Anti-christ’, was Nero, who led a great army (John said is in the world already) and (as numerous as sands on the sea.) Hitler could have been considered an anti-Christ and he also led a great army… Now consider what happened to Nero, and Hitler irregardless we need to be concerned about our actions and that we persevere and make the right choices and ‘do not fear’ said the Lord God many times in the scriptures. Are you afraid of what will happen? Is your house in order??That’s the thing you have to be concerned with. Do not worry about what can kill the body but what can kill the soul.

None of that is said like that. We will all be one body of Christ in heaven. The Catholic Religion (the bride of Christ) was started by Jesus Christ to draw all closer to God and it has been successful in doing so and Jesus will return for it.

There are many false prophets said Jesus.

Yes, who said there was? But there is a place where Jesus went after he died to do some preaching to those in there and he rose out of there on the third day… So don’t fear,do your best to be holy so you will not spend much time in there after you die, and become a Catholic because Jesus said in John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
And Jesus will return for His bride.

Where is it said this will be 1000 years of perfect peace? Jesus Christ reigns now and will always as High Priest and Lord over all. Perfect peace comes after this long time (1000 years), but until then we can find peace through Jesus Christ our Lord. Where is Jesus right now to you?? Jesus is alive and well and so will we Lord willing long after we leave our earthly lives.

I take it we disagree. Only point I will make is that , yes, John said he is in the world today. Lucifer has been in the world since he fell.

I am not trying to change your mind, as it appears that you are a faithful Christian and most certainly loyal to your church. When you stand before Jesus, He will be well pleased with your sincerity.

 

[Doxiemom]

I really really need to say this:

It is shameful when a protestant says ugly anti-Catholic rantings and it is just as shameful when a catholic says ugly rantings concerning protestants.

None of it comes to any good.

BACK TO THE MARK, folks

 

[Karen107]

Come now, there are many a good folk who have died doing missionary work. Many churches that are all ready with supplies for disasters on a moments notice. They dig wells for water. They build houses for the poor. They send medical supplies and medical teams. The do acts of mercy because they are Christians. Doing good works is a natural outcoming from being Christian. It is just they feel this does not earn their way to heaven. It will count when they stand before Christ at the Judgement Seat.

Great! than they will probably be saved because we will all be judged one day. Once again who said anything about earning salvation? We will all be on the judgement seat and there are many Christians who are so far away from correct teaching of the scriptures, they are hardly recognizable as Christians anymore. You also said earlier ‘Many Protestants believe that grace alone saves us – and not works’ which is contrary to what Jesus teaches because He wants us to be His hands and feet in the world and be part of the church he started. So somethings amiss, Jesus said if you feed others we feed him and when we visit others in prison we visit him. You get the picture? So why teach works isn’t necessary? Scriptures also say that note everyone who calls on the name of Jesus will be saved, but only those who do the will of my Father. So then why would evangelicals teach all you have to do is call on the name of Jesus Christ and ye shall be saved? I’m not against evangelicals or protestant, but they’re the first to say that Catholics don’t know what they’re talking about.

This is what Protestants think about Catholics. That Catholics believe they can earn their way to heaven by works. Catholics know that they can’t get to heaven if it weren’t for the fact that Jesus Sacrificed His life so that we would not perish but have eternal life, however, Jesus demonstrated all we have to do including worshiping in spirit and truth. And than means participating in the Holy Sacrifice of the mass because of the covenant that God made with us when he shed his blood. We are held to that covenant every time we eat and drink of the body and blood of Christ. No other religion believes in the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. And that’s where the others aren’t worshiping in spirit and truth, so will they be saved? Probably because God is merciful, but see the things they are missing and how they are part of the apostasy or fallen away? So many of the truths of God are being lost. Like the one I’ve written twice that gets no attention from most protestants. .

John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

I believe that is a test to us, among many, to be living in Gods word.

Jesus will return to judge the living and dead. That doesn’t exclude Christians. Jesus will separate the sheep from the goats.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

 

[Karen107]

I really really need to say this:

It is shameful when a protestant says ugly anti-Catholic rantings and it is just as shameful when a catholic says ugly rantings concerning protestants.

None of it comes to any good.

BACK TO THE MARK, folks

Doxiemom, If you are offended by anything I’ve said I apologize, It was not meant to offend you.

 

[Doxiemom]

I know how it is. It is so easy to want to help but sometimes it comes across as anger.
I really see you as a soldier for Christ.

One pastor said that yes, it is by faith alone that you are saved but some of you are perfectly worthless in the world and in the church.

My mom would say’ saved by the skin of your teeth"

We can agree that it is by faith that we are saved, but faith without works is a dead faith.

Works are good. They are outward shows of faith. Unselfish. Charity. Plain ole love. Some people do outrageous , painful, unnecessary things to “earn” their way to heaven. They are deceived. I know it isn’t sanctioned by the Catholic Church but yet it happens. It is this sort of 'works" that seems so wrong to a non-Catholic.

You know that there are catholics who will go to confession and then walk out and as soon as they receive the Euchurist they will do all the same sins over again. never had any intentions of stopping. Was that a sincere sacrament for them? I would say no.

JUST as there are non-catholics who make a confession of faith do their little altar calls, all for show because they think that now they are “covered” and 'saved" and go about being the same ole sinners, never really repenting.They are fools and God knows who they are.

Both would take the mark, methinks.

 

[Karen107]

I know how it is. It is so easy to want to help but sometimes it comes across as anger.
I really see you as a soldier for Christ.

One pastor said that yes, it is by faith alone that you are saved but some of you are perfectly worthless in the world and in the church.

My mom would say’ saved by the skin of your teeth"

We can agree that it is by faith that we are saved, but faith without works is a dead faith.

Works are good. They are outward shows of faith. Unselfish. Charity. Plain ole love. Some people do outrageous , painful, unnecessary things to “earn” their way to heaven. They are deceived. I know it isn’t sanctioned by the Catholic Church but yet it happens. It is this sort of 'works" that seems so wrong to a non-Catholic.

You know that there are catholics who will go to confession and then walk out and as soon as they receive the Euchurist they will do all the same sins over again. never had any intentions of stopping. Was that a sincere sacrament for them? I would say no.

JUST as there are non-catholics who make a confession of faith do their little altar calls, all for show because they think that now they are “covered” and 'saved" and go about being the same ole sinners, never really repenting.They are fools and God knows who they are.

Both would take the mark, methinks.

I believe the first step of a Christian is walking into a church …

I think that we’ve come to an understanding of sorts, and I like how you put it. I don’t believe we have to do a lot of things besides loving Jesus either, and we should do it because we want to do it, but there are some who give all and they should be commended, like those people who go on overseas mission trips or those who devote their entire lives to God. I heard the parable today about the woman who gave all she had, though it was not much, was good.

I"m not excusing the sinner, because we are all sinners, but often the problem with sins is they become habits, and it takes strength and fortitude,will and prayer to overcome them. That’s why Jesus said if a person comes with the same sin 70 times, to forgive them 70 times and boy Jesus knows the nature of people.

 

[njlisa]

Come now, there are many a good folk who have died doing missionary work. Many churches that are all ready with supplies for disasters on a moments notice. They dig wells for water. They build houses for the poor. They send medical supplies and medical teams. The do acts of mercy because they are Christians. Doing good works is a natural outcoming from being Christian. It is just they feel this does not earn their way to heaven. It will count when they stand before Christ at the Judgement Seat.

I just wanted to throw in here (way after the fact) that I knew a lot of very kind, community-oriented people when I was at the Baptist Church. And here in Jersey, the local Baptists were making hot meals for those of us without power in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy. (The Red Cross had bigger fish to fry – because the disaster was so much worse at the Shore.) Evangelicals are good people. And I’m grateful for my Baptist upbringing.

 

[fbl9]

There will be a ressurectionn of the dead.

The rapture holds that people will fly up into the sky to meet Jesus and be taken to heaven. Catholicism does not teach this. The Bible does not say this.

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I also saw the holy city, a new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, God’s dwelling is with the human race. He will dwell with them and they will be his people and God himself will always be with them (Revelation 21:1-3)

Jesus will descend, heaven will meet earth, and our bodies will be resurrected. That is exactly what the Bible says.

There will be no flying up to meet Jesus in the air.

For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

What Paul was doing was using a common practice of “going out to meet” a visiting dignitary or royal official to teach. People would leave the walled city and “go out to meet” such a person, and then escort them back to the safety of the walled city as an honored guest. Paul was exlaining that Jesus will return and be our honored guest, and not that we would go somewhere with him, but that he would remain with us, just like it says in Revelation!

There is no rapture. Jesus will come. We will be ressurected. The bad guys will go to hell. The rest will live with Jesus. End.

-Tim-

 

[Semangelof]

Faith alone is a phrase that requires deeper investigation. I think it could be more properly written “Living-Faith Alone”. Protestants understand the difference between living-faith and dead-faith. We understand that “works” are a clear test between the two. I do not know of and pray there are no protestant churches that believe in a dead-faith alone.

Because “works” are a clear outcome of a Living-Faith, and because the source of those works comes from God through a Living-Faith in God, our focus rests on developing a “Living-Faith” in the hearts of our people. We rest the majority of our focus on developing “Living-Faith” under the assurance that “works” are an unavoidable outcome of a living faith. Feeding the poor, mission work, and other actions are not listed as “works” for us but rather as opportunities to live our faith. “Works” exists in the church, it’s just not called “works”, instead it’s called “living out our faith.”

The distinction between living and dead faith could stand to be emphasized 100x over in the protestant church for sure. But hopefully this will bring understanding over the phrase. Catholics and protestants speak an entirely different language, for the most part I think this is a problem of translation.

 

[Karen107]

Faith alone is a phrase that requires deeper investigation. I think it could be more properly written “Living-Faith Alone”. Protestants understand the difference between living-faith and dead-faith. We understand that “works” are a clear test between the two. I do not know of and pray there are no protestant churches that believe in a dead-faith alone.

Because “works” are a clear outcome of a Living-Faith, and because the source of those works comes from God through a Living-Faith in God, our focus rests on developing a “Living-Faith” in the hearts of our people. We rest the majority of our focus on developing “Living-Faith” under the assurance that “works” are an unavoidable outcome of a living faith. Feeding the poor, mission work, and other actions are not listed as “works” for us but rather as opportunities to live our faith. “Works” exists in the church, it’s just not called “works”, instead it’s called “living out our faith.”

The distinction between living and dead faith could stand to be emphasized 100x over in the protestant church for sure. But hopefully this will bring understanding over the phrase. Catholics and protestants speak an entirely different language, for the most part I think this is a problem of translation.

Huh? ‘Works’ exists in the church? Works exist in the bible which is something that you should know as a non-Catholic. Yes we define spiritual works of mercy and corporal works of mercy and they are part of living our our faith as well. And this is part of our catechism. To teach the importance of works as part of living our faith. We have to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. And I believe often it is in the works that people are brought to faith or faith becoming stronger in the person while helping others. Who cannot go on a mission trip, or helping someone in need, without taking something back from it? Therefore the importance of works cannot be overemphasized. And we can’t say that others are just working to earn their place in heaven. That’s a disservice to people helping others. God loves ALL people of good will.