Mark Shea, Cardinal Dolan, Fr. Benedict Groeschel Ok with Women Cardinals?
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Brendan
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We it is technically possible, as noted in the article, the office of Cardinal does not implicitly require Holy Orders.
Remember, that the function of the college is simply to elect the next Pope.
Any other authority that a Cardinal has derives from their ecclesial state.
So if a woman was appointed to the College, all it would mean is that particular woman would have a vote who the next Pope would be.
The person would not have any ecclesial authoirity over any clergy simply by virtue of membership in the college.
And I wouldn’t say that the men you listed are "OK’ with women Cardinals. I’m sure each of them holds an opinion that such an appointment would be a bad idea.
But that does not mean that they deny the authority of a Pope to appoint one if that is his desire.
Remember, that the function of the college is simply to elect the next Pope.
Any other authority that a Cardinal has derives from their ecclesial state.
So if a woman was appointed to the College, all it would mean is that particular woman would have a vote who the next Pope would be.
The person would not have any ecclesial authoirity over any clergy simply by virtue of membership in the college.
And I wouldn’t say that the men you listed are "OK’ with women Cardinals. I’m sure each of them holds an opinion that such an appointment would be a bad idea.
But that does not mean that they deny the authority of a Pope to appoint one if that is his desire.
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ndeparis88
Guest
Also the Cardinals are not in positions of succession. They are like the political arm of the Church. I actually like the idea. especially since it doesn’t break the line of the priesthood.
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Lancer
Guest
Does not bother me a bit…if the Pope and Magisterium…that is The Church…does this…it won’t be for sentimental or modernity reasons…so I trust them. “…There is genius in Catholicism…” [Matthew Kelley] because our founder is Truth himself…and He promised to that His Holy Spirit would lead and guide His apostolic Church into all Truth…Himself.
In sum…let the Pope do his “pope-stuff”… and I hope and pray for the grace to do my “laity-stuff”!
Pax Christi
Lastly, I like the idea of having a real woman of truth, character and accomplishment…like Janet Smith or maybe Mary Eberstadt or Phyllis Schlafly or Ambassador Mary Ann Glendon…or one of the Holy Women of the Church who has started/runs a Lay Apostolate…in the College of Cardinals.
In sum…let the Pope do his “pope-stuff”… and I hope and pray for the grace to do my “laity-stuff”!
Pax Christi
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latingirl
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If they aren’t priests then I don’t see a problem personally. But they’d better not be priests
Besides some women look great in red!
Besides some women look great in red!
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MarkThompson
Guest
We discussed this issue several months ago in this thread. I remain of the view that there is no theological reason why this could not be done (in the way that there is a theological reason why women can’t be admitted to holy orders). There have certainly been cardinals, even in the last century, who did not hold major orders at all, and although I think it’s disputed whether there have been any who did not hold minor orders, it’s hard to imagine anybody seriously maintaining that minor orders are a dogmatic prerequisite to anything. It must be remembered that the cardinalate is a humanly instituted office created to help fulfill certain administrative tasks within the church; it is not an office with theological significance at all, and it did not really exist for the first thousand years or so of the Church’s history. Doctrinally speaking, there is no barrier whatsoever to disbanding the cardinalate tomorrow and devolving the function of electing the Pope upon the clergy of Rome, or the college of bishops. Any such change would be untraditional, but it would not violate Sacred Tradition.
Certainly, appointing woman cardinals would present numerous practical questions and problems, such as what to do about the precedence of cardinals in liturgical functions. And, at least in the current climate, it would have the very bad effect of signaling to people that all things are open for debate and change and that, if women can be admitted to the office of cardinal then it is only intransigence that would not admit them to the “lower” office of priest.
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
Note that a Cardinal is designated a Cardinal Bishop, a Cardinal Priest, or a Cardinal Deacon because the office was originally held by the clergy of the dioceses of Rome, or around Rome. At that time the clergy of the diocese elected the Bishop of Rome, the Pope. They still hold office as nominal clergy of those dioceses.
There was a recent picture of the Pope in procession flanked by two men in deacons’ vestments but wearing miters. It took a moment for me to remember that they were Cardinal Deacons.
This historical connection would have to be abolished.
I think that in addition to meeting in conclave to elect the Pope, they also meet in a conclave prior to his announcing the creation of new cardinals. I think there may be other conclaves to advise him at times; though I don’t recall a specific instance.
There was a recent picture of the Pope in procession flanked by two men in deacons’ vestments but wearing miters. It took a moment for me to remember that they were Cardinal Deacons.
This historical connection would have to be abolished.
I think that in addition to meeting in conclave to elect the Pope, they also meet in a conclave prior to his announcing the creation of new cardinals. I think there may be other conclaves to advise him at times; though I don’t recall a specific instance.
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latingirl
Guest
What bugs me is I don’t know how the boys would handle it if a nice-looking woman was stuck with them in a conclave!! 
Her Eminence (lol) would have to sleep in a separate place and who knows where that would be.
Her Eminence (lol) would have to sleep in a separate place and who knows where that would be.
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mburn16
Guest
Close…When the College meets outside of its duties to elect a new Pope, its called a Consistory. “Conclave” refers exclusively to the election of a new Pope, and gets its name from the Latin words for “with a key” (cum = with, clave = key)…referring to the procedure of locking them into the Sistine Chapel.
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MarkThompson
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Not necessarily; just as laypeople have been Cardinal-Deacons without actually being deacons (e.g., Fernando de’Medici, who was a lay cardinal for 23 years, serving as Cardinal Deacon of three different tituli until he eventually married), there seems to be no dogmatic reason why a woman could not be styled “Cardinal Deacon.” A bad idea and ripe for causing confusion, no doubt; but the “Deacon” portion of “Cardinal Deacon” is strictly honorary and does not make you an actual, theological deacon, nor even imply that you are one, as one can tell from the examples of de’Medici and Teodolfo Mertel, who only received his deaconal ordination two months after becoming Cardinal Deacon of Sant’Eustachio.
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Joe_Kelley
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Thanks. My memory gets fuzzy at times.
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Fiasco
Guest
SheWhat bugs me is I don’t know how the boys would handle it if a nice-looking woman was stuck with them in a conclave!!
Her Eminence (lol) would have to sleep in a separate place and who knows where that would be.
d have to be elderly. How about Alice von Hildebrand? Shes 89 though, so she couldnt vote. :shrug: Mother Angelicas past it.Sister Lucy
s gone. Sister Joan Chittister doesnt really fit. Her NCR column might interfere with less serious business, too. [Marilla Ness` version of “From Where I Stand” is better.
]Someone should start a poll.
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latingirl
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That would be quite interesting.Someone should start a poll.
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TimothyH
Guest
It would cause extreme scandal and confusion among the faithful.
Imagine the howls from the people who want female priests. Not only that, but imagine the number of people who would misunderstand a woman in a red biretta and then go ahead and try to ordain female priests, thereby placing themselves in jeapordy with regard to their status in the Church.
***Everything is lawful, but not everything is beneficial. Everything is lawful, but not everything builds up. *(1 Corinthains 10:23)
“No theological reason” does not equate to “Wise”
What about the Traditionalists? They can’t even get over female altar servers. Half of them would have strokes and heart attacks. Then the SSPX and similar groups would say, “See, we told you so!” and things would get all out of hand.
No, not a good idea at all.
-Tim-
Imagine the howls from the people who want female priests. Not only that, but imagine the number of people who would misunderstand a woman in a red biretta and then go ahead and try to ordain female priests, thereby placing themselves in jeapordy with regard to their status in the Church.
***Everything is lawful, but not everything is beneficial. Everything is lawful, but not everything builds up. *(1 Corinthains 10:23)
“No theological reason” does not equate to “Wise”
What about the Traditionalists? They can’t even get over female altar servers. Half of them would have strokes and heart attacks. Then the SSPX and similar groups would say, “See, we told you so!” and things would get all out of hand.
No, not a good idea at all.
-Tim-
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latingirl
Guest
I agree, I think it would be counterproductive, Most people don’t understand Catholic teaching well enough to know about the Cardinals not having to be priests thing. It isn’t necessary either. I am not opposed to it on theoretical grounds but on practical grounds, having female cardinals would be a disaster.
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Lujack
Guest
I disagree, actually-I think it could possibly reduce confusion. Here me out-the argument that is thrown against the Church is that it doesn’t want women priests because it doesn’t want women in positions of power. This is untrue, of course, as anyone who has ever been around nuns knows. The issue is not women in positions of leadership, but about the Sacrament of Holy Orders.
Allowing important nuns to become cardinals would make such a thing more clear.
I’m not necessarily arguing for it-its really up to the Pope. I should point out, though, that I don’t think you can really cause scandal by doing something you are absolutely entitled to do.
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TrueLight
Guest
Exactly! One step closer to the rationalization that women should also be priests.
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Santo_Subito
Guest
There was never any such thing as “lay cardinals” in the Church. You are referring to some cases where a man who had received minor orders (a cleric, not a layman) became a cardinal. The office of cardinal has always in 2,000 years of Church Tradition been bestowed upon bishops, priests, deacons, and sometimes those in minor orders. Never has it been bestowed upon a layman, much less a laywoman. The origins of the office were deeply related to clerical office.
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Lamentabili
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Digitonomy
Guest
If the titles are entirely honorary, then presumably there is no obstacle to a woman also being named “Cardinal Bishop”?
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