Maronite First Friday's Liturgy

[chain]

I notice my local Maronite Church as Mass (Divine Liturgy and Celebration of the Eucharist) on First Fridays. Likewise a quick web search led me to believe that this is not uncommon. Is this related to the devotion to Sacred Heart of Jesus, or does this liturgy have a different specific importance within the Maronite Rite?

 

[malphono]

I notice my local Maronite Church as Mass (Divine Liturgy and Celebration of the Eucharist) on First Fridays. Likewise a quick web search led me to believe that this is not uncommon. Is this related to the devotion to Sacred Heart of Jesus, or does this liturgy have a different specific importance within the Maronite Rite?

It has no specific importance. It’s strictly a persistent latinization.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

The Maronites have been extensively Latinized due to their close association with the French in Lebanon. This is being gradually corrected. On the other hand there is nothing specifically Latin about the Fatima messages. The practices are not mandatory in any rite, but should be beneficial to all.

 

[Hesychios]

The Maronites have been extensively Latinized due to their close association with the French in Lebanon. This is being gradually corrected. On the other hand there is nothing specifically Latin about the Fatima messages. …

Not Fatima.

That would be Paray le Monial, in France.

 

[malphono]

The Maronites have been extensively Latinized due to their close association with the French in Lebanon.

The “old” latinizations, (which were mainly in externals and the adoption of certain devotional practices), began in earnest in the late 16th century and have little to do with the French.

This is being gradually corrected.

It’s more to the point that, while some of the “old” latinizations, have been reversed, in fact nothing is being “corrected.” Over the past 40 years, and especially in the last 20, there is a pernicious wave of Novus Ordo-inspired neo-latinization. This trend, which is far more insidious than the “old” wave, continues unabated and is a very serious threat to the very existence of the Maronites.

 

[Modelsim]

This is a result of latinazation. If you look at the traditional calendars or devotions of most eastern churches, they are devoid of any feasts for abstractions. E.g. sacred heart and divine mercy. They tend to focus on lives of the saints, biblical events, or historic events (defeat of the iconoclast heresy).

 

[GIR]

Why should we in the West be expected to adopt all the eastern customs while the Eastern churches treat Latin customs like something they found in their navel? I realize forced latinization is a bad thing, but liturgical and popular customs can flow both ways right?

This is the kind of talk that really turns me off of eastern stuff. They have little respect for my traditions.

 

[trophybearer]

Why should we in the West be expected to adopt all the eastern customs while the Eastern churches treat Latin customs like something they found in their navel? I realize forced latinization is a bad thing, but liturgical and popular customs can flow both ways right?

This is the kind of talk that really turns me off of eastern stuff. They have little respect for my traditions.

What Eastern customs exactly are Latins expected to adopt? I’m not aware of any. If you could point some out the argument might make sense.

 

[Nine_Two]

What Eastern customs exactly are Latins expected to adopt? I’m not aware of any. If you could point some out the argument might make sense.

They’re supposed to accept the Eastern Catholics as full and real Catholics, this is apparently quite a hardship.

 

[Biedrik]

Why should we in the West be expected to adopt all the eastern customs while the Eastern churches treat Latin customs like something they found in their navel? I realize forced latinization is a bad thing, but liturgical and popular customs can flow both ways right?

This is the kind of talk that really turns me off of eastern stuff. They have little respect for my traditions.

What are you talking about? I as a Latin Catholic have never heard any Eastern Catholics say that the Latin Rite should use their traditions. I have never heard them say that we must genuflect the other way, change the vestments of our priests, pray in any language used in the Eastern Rites, etc. This just baffles me.

 

[Aramis]

What are you talking about? I as a Latin Catholic have never heard any Eastern Catholics say that the Latin Rite should use their traditions. I have never heard them say that we must genuflect the other way, change the vestments of our priests, pray in any language used in the Eastern Rites, etc. This just baffles me.

There are two commonly called for Byzantifications: Standing instead of kneeling during the anaphora, and standing to receive.

One of the two is already present in the Ordinary form…

And some bishops have returned to standing for the majority of the Anaphora of the Roman Church.

 

[trophybearer]

There are two commonly called for Byzantifications: Standing instead of kneeling during the anaphora, and standing to receive.

One of the two is already present in the Ordinary form…

And some bishops have returned to standing for the majority of the Anaphora of the Roman Church.

I always thought that was due to lack of reverence- no one ever told me it was an Eastern custom.

 

[Aramis]

I always thought that was due to lack of reverence- no one ever told me it was an Eastern custom.

Whether they are introduced as byzantifications or not, both are part of byzantine praxis, and OF Latin praxis is closer to Byzantine than any point in the last 500 years.

And the OF has adopted the use of communion in the hand; an Armenian praxis element.

The OF missal is an interesting hodge-podge of elements from other rites…

 

[Biedrik]

Whether they are introduced as byzantifications or not, both are part of byzantine praxis, and OF Latin praxis is closer to Byzantine than any point in the last 500 years.

And the OF has adopted the use of communion in the hand; an Armenian praxis element.

The OF missal is an interesting hodge-podge of elements from other rites…

Ok, but this still does not prove that Eastern Catholics demanded that we Latin Rites accept their traditions. I doubt that when the OF Mass was being composed, some Eastern Catholics were demanding that their traditions be inserted into it. We don’t even know if the similarities are intentional or not. If they are, then the Latin Rite just took inspiration from the Eastern Rites. If they aren’t, then what does it matter?

 

[Aramis]

Ok, but this still does not prove that Eastern Catholics demanded that we Latin Rites accept their traditions. I doubt that when the OF Mass was being composed, some Eastern Catholics were demanding that their traditions be inserted into it. We don’t even know if the similarities are intentional or not. If they are, then the Latin Rite just took inspiration from the Eastern Rites. If they aren’t, then what does it matter?

Actually, it’s the Eastern Orthodox who are most vocal in demaning these… because they would show compliance with the 1st EC’s canons…

 

[Biedrik]

Actually, it’s the Eastern Orthodox who are most vocal in demaning these… because they would show compliance with the 1st EC’s canons…

How exactly did the Eastern Orthodox Church exert pressure on the Catholic Church to change the mass? What, did they threaten to schism?

Regardless, there is nothing really to show that GIR’s claim about Eastern Catholics imposing their traditions on the Latin Rite is even remotely true.

 

[crazzeto]

They’re supposed to accept the Eastern Catholics as full and real Catholics, this is apparently quite a hardship.

On what basis do you make this claim?

 

[GIR]

:banghead:

I’m not referring to literal “force”, unless you’re talking about the standing thing, in which case take that as you will for whatever you think it is.

Bottom line, why should I even appreciate your customs when mine are treated with so much coldness and condescension? Maybe the maronites like the first friday devotion? Maybe they want to do it of their own free will? If we are really in communion, and if we really have the same faith, why does it matter? Many people on this thread have essentially praised the standing for communion issue because it is more eastern. That’s the kind of attitude I’m talking about. “east is better” sort of thing. Never mind that communion in the hand was foisted on us by liturgists where it hadn’t previously existed.

 

[GIR]

Here’s the kind of reaction I’m getting from most ECs I run into on the internet regarding liturgical issues

Latins stand for anaphora

Latins receive under both kinds

Latins stand to receive

Maronites pray the Rosary

Maronites have eucharistic adoration

Maronites do the first friday devotion

Don’t you think this is kind of a one way street?

I love praying in front of icons. I love eastern chant. I love eastern liturgy and attend when I can. How am I not accepting ECs as catholics?

 

[ciero]

Here’s the kind of reaction I’m getting from most ECs I run into on the internet regarding liturgical issues

Latins stand for anaphora

Latins receive under both kinds

Latins stand to receive

These are all OLDER LATIN CUSTOMS…I mean older then Trent…in the medieval church folks stood for the Eucharistic prayer, received under both species and stood to receive communion, All your own customs. I really doubt the the Easterners here who adhere to and promote keeping to Holy Tradition would be encouraging Latins to give up their own Traditions.