Maronite Might! - Vortex episode on Maronite Catholics

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I was at these talks.

He was very good.

A lot of young people there as well, between 20-30.

the church he was standing outside was St Charbel’s
 
shlomo3amrooh said:
I was at these talks.

He was very good.

A lot of young people there as well, between 20-30.

the church he was standing outside was St Charbel’s
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How many of them appeared to be of Lebanese/Middle Eastern background, though?
 
Trebor135 said:
Thanks for sharing the video. Unfortunately, the data indicating that about fifty percent of Maronites attend divine liturgy is actually misleading. As of 2006, only 0.92 percent of Australians identified as being of Lebanese heritage; the Maronites are concentrated in the land of the cedars, and not all immigrants to Australia from the country are going to be of that rite, let alone of the Christian faith.

So, unless they’ve managed to bring in a lot of non-Lebanese-Australians, the real number of those attending divine liturgy in Maronite parishes is a drop in the bucket.
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I’m not surprised, Voris is the tabloid of the Catholic Church.
 
ConstantineTG said:
I’m not surprised, Voris is the tabloid of the Catholic Church.
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It’s disappointing, really. We should be about as encouraged by his video showcasing Australia’s Maronite “success story” as we would if a foreigner in Bethlehem posted a YouTube dispatch praising the vitality of the Christian faith in the city where Christ was born, when there are almost no more followers of the Messiah left in Palestine anyway! (Secularism racing to the finish line in Australia isn’t much better than Islam predominating in half of the Holy Land.)
 
Trebor135 said:
It’s disappointing, really. We should be about as encouraged by his video showcasing Australia’s Maronite “success story” as we would if a foreigner in Bethlehem posted a YouTube dispatch praising the vitality of the Christian faith in the city where Christ was born, when there are almost no more followers of the Messiah left in Palestine anyway! (Secularism racing to the finish line in Australia isn’t much better than Islam predominating in half of the Holy Land.)
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Well, it is indeed nice he put the spotlight on an Eastern Catholic Church. However he let his sensationalism and vehement criticism of the OF Mass get in the way. Instead of a feel-good story, he used the Maronites to his own agenda. Not to mention that he got so many facts wrong, you either wonder whether he intentionally lied to further his agenda, or that he just did a very poor job with his research.
 
I ask not to upset or offend those who do like Voris, but what ever happened to the dispute between him and the Archdiocese of Detroit?

As for this video, I have to agree. While it was nice to see the other side of the Catholic Church highlighted, and inspiring to hear many young people excited about their faith, the inaccuracies in this video were multifold and disappointing.

There also seems to be an overtone to most of the “Vortex” videos I have seen, that is an almost defeatist point of view. We hear constantly how the Church is dying. How is that message (i) accurate and (ii) supposed to inspire anyone to the Church?
 
ConstantineTG said:
Well, it is indeed nice he put the spotlight on an Eastern Catholic Church. However he let his sensationalism and vehement criticism of the OF Mass get in the way. Instead of a feel-good story, he used the Maronites to his own agenda. Not to mention that he got so many facts wrong, you either wonder whether he intentionally lied to further his agenda, or that he just did a very poor job with his research.
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👍
 
ByzCathCantor said:
I ask not to upset or offend those who do like Voris, but what ever happened to the dispute between him and the Archdiocese of Detroit?

As for this video, I have to agree. While it was nice to see the other side of the Catholic Church highlighted, and inspiring to hear many young people excited about their faith, the inaccuracies in this video were multifold and disappointing.

There also seems to be an overtone to most of the “Vortex” videos I have seen, that is an almost defeatist point of view. We hear constantly how the Church is dying. How is that message (i) accurate and (ii) supposed to inspire anyone to the Church?
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This is largely why I dislike his videos… it’s as if he’s already given up. As if he looks around and sees only lapsed Catholics and leaders.

It’s very discouraging and I had to stop listening to his little videos.
 
ByzCathCantor said:
I ask not to upset or offend those who do like Voris, but what ever happened to the dispute between him and the Archdiocese of Detroit?

As for this video, I have to agree. While it was nice to see the other side of the Catholic Church highlighted, and inspiring to hear many young people excited about their faith, the inaccuracies in this video were multifold and disappointing.

There also seems to be an overtone to most of the “Vortex” videos I have seen, that is an almost defeatist point of view. We hear constantly how the Church is dying. How is that message (i) accurate and (ii) supposed to inspire anyone to the Church?
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Right. Voris is doing more damage than he is helping. For one thing, those who agree with him and cheer him on are the people who don’t need to be told to go to Church and obey her teachings. You are right about his defeatist attitude, how will that inspire those who are falling away or have fallen away from coming back to the Church?
 
shlomo3amrooh said:
over >80% of people

He had two talks in Sydney

1 at St Charbel’s and one at Our Lady of Lebanon
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Well, you’ve confirmed the “good news” in the Vortex video to be hollow and essentially meaningless, then. 😦

Since you’re living in Australia, maybe you could get together with some of your Eastern Catholic family, friends, and acquaintances to create and pay for ads in the newspapers promoting those parishes?

“Come check out St. Charbel’s Maronite Church–we’ve got incense with an aroma more alluring than home-cooked bacon… and the experience will put you in a state of quiet spiritual ecstasy (we promise that it’s better than any drugs you’ve ever tried) for the rest of the day!”

Or, “Come stop by Our Lady of Lebanon Maronite Church–we hold the most exotic Christian services in town, as good as what you can get from the New Age or Eastern religions… They’ll keep even your most overactive children mesmerized for more than an hour!”

😛
 
May I ask what exactly is the opposition about?

Is it that the Maronites are successful in Australia? or that Michael Voris’ video contains non factual elements?

:confused:
 
LumenGent said:
May I ask what exactly is the opposition about?

Is it that the Maronites are successful in Australia? or that Michael Voris’ video contains non factual elements?

:confused:
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It is that Voris’ video contains MANY non-factual elements
 
Trebor135 said:
Thanks for sharing the video. Unfortunately, the data indicating that about fifty percent of Maronites attend divine liturgy is actually misleading. As of 2006, only 0.92 percent of Australians identified as being of Lebanese heritage; the Maronites are concentrated in the land of the cedars, and not all immigrants to Australia from the country are going to be of that rite, let alone of the Christian faith.

So, unless they’ve managed to bring in a lot of non-Lebanese-Australians, the real number of those attending divine liturgy in Maronite parishes is a drop in the bucket.
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With all due respect, perhaps you should email RealCatholicTV to find out where they got their information, rather than just presume they’re wrong. I wouldn’t be surprised if many non-Lebanese Australians attend Maronite churches. Their liturgies, as far as I know, haven’t been ripped apart, changed and modernized like what the Latin Church has experienced in the past 50 years.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Well, it is indeed nice he put the spotlight on an Eastern Catholic Church. However he let his sensationalism and vehement criticism of the OF Mass get in the way. Instead of a feel-good story, he used the Maronites to his own agenda. Not to mention that he got so many facts wrong, you either wonder whether he intentionally lied to further his agenda, or that he just did a very poor job with his research.
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Yet more slanderous attacks on Michael Voris and his ministry (and yes, before you pick it out, I know that his ministry is not ‘official’ or been ‘approved’ by the local ordinary). His warranted criticism of the Novus Ordo does not get in the way at all. I can’t see anyone finding that a problem besides baby-boomers who wish to believe that the Novus Ordo is utterly flawless. I have seen many of your posts as a lurker on this forum concerning Michael Voris, and it’s obvious that you aren’t a fan. Instead of presuming that Michael Voris has some ‘hidden agenda’, perhaps for once you could give him the benefit of the doubt. He does his best. I don’t see anything that is ‘wrong’, besides the accusation from another poster that his information on Mass attendance was incorrect.

Stop being so hard-hearted.
 
ImmaculataFides said:
Yet more slanderous attacks on Michael Voris and his ministry (and yes, before you pick it out, I know that his ministry is not ‘official’ or been ‘approved’ by the local ordinary). His warranted criticism of the Novus Ordo does not get in the way at all. I can’t see anyone finding that a problem besides baby-boomers who wish to believe that the Novus Ordo is utterly flawless. I have seen many of your posts as a lurker on this forum concerning Michael Voris, and it’s obvious that you aren’t a fan. Instead of presuming that Michael Voris has some ‘hidden agenda’, perhaps for once you could give him the benefit of the doubt. He does his best. I don’t see anything that is ‘wrong’, besides the accusation from another poster that his information on Mass attendance was incorrect.

Stop being so hard-hearted.
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Slanderous? I am pretty sure that my comments are spot on. There are so many things wrong with what Voris said in this particular video, and then he blatantly used those lies as ammunition again to slam the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite.

And as far as you know isn’t far enough it seems. Yes, their Liturgy has been ripped apart in the last 50 years. They are one of the hardest hit of Latinizations of all the Eastern Churches.

stgeorgesa.org/explanation_of_the_maronite_divi.htm
 
What are the non factual elements in the video, can you list them?
 
LumenGent said:
What are the non factual elements in the video, can you list them?
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#1 - he doesn’t know the difference between Rite and Church and used them interchangably. He said there are about 2 dozen Rites where in fact there are only 6. There are nearly 2 dozen Churches in the Catholic Church.
#2 - the Maronites did have a Liturgical reform
#3 - he keeps railing against loss of Catholic identity in the Latin Rite, as if the Eastern Catholic Churches are not suffering a loss of their own identity through Latinizations. He speaks as if the Maronite Church were unchanged from their founding. Not true, even other Churches following other Rites among Eastern Catholics, there have been a lot of changes, mostly Latinizaitions. He says the Maronites have been spared from the abuses that have swept the Latin Rite Church. While in a sense this is true when you think about specific abuses, again every Eastern Rite has their own “abuses” that has resulted in a loss of our own identity.
#4 - he speaks as if Eastern parishes aren’t suffering a loss of membership of its members through secularization.
#5 - his play on numbers are misleading. Eastern parishes are generally small and therefore numbers can jump up significantly when talking about percentages.
#6 - hasty generalizations. His sample size is the one parish he visited and he speaks as if it applies to the entire Maronite Church. It can be misleading. If he went to the Ukrainian Church and saw St Elias, he would think it is a young, vibrant and very traditional Church. But there are many parishes out there where it is heavily Latinized, not many young people, and only a handful of regular people are there every Sunday.

By the way, I watched the video again. It seems they fixed the >14% :D:D:D
 
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