Maronite quesiton

[rben20]

Hello Eastern Catholics,

I was watching some of the liturgy of Maronites and was surprised that there was not much a difference that I saw aesthetically from a typical OF Roman Catholic parish. I was also surprised the priest was facing the people. I just wanted to know if this has always been the tradition of the Maronites since the Eastern Catholics churches of the Byzantine rite that I have attended had the priest facing East…this is also found in the EF of the Mass in Roman Catholic churches. Maybe I didn’t watch enough of the Mass but I thought I would ask since I am curious. Thank you in advance!

 

[ciero]

Hello Eastern Catholics,

I was watching some of the liturgy of Maronites and was surprised that there was not much a difference that I saw aesthetically from a typical OF Roman Catholic parish. I was also surprised the priest was facing the people. I just wanted to know if this has always been the tradition of the Maronites since the Eastern Catholics churches of the Byzantine rite that I have attended had the priest facing East…this is also found in the EF of the Mass in Roman Catholic churches. Maybe I didn’t watch enough of the Mass but I thought I would ask since I am curious. Thank you in advance!

The Maronites have been VERY Latinized. They have sold their birthright and traditions to the Roman overlords. Not very faithful to who they really are.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Hello Eastern Catholics,

I was watching some of the liturgy of Maronites and was surprised that there was not much a difference that I saw aesthetically from a typical OF Roman Catholic parish. I was also surprised the priest was facing the people. I just wanted to know if this has always been the tradition of the Maronites since the Eastern Catholics churches of the Byzantine rite that I have attended had the priest facing East…this is also found in the EF of the Mass in Roman Catholic churches. Maybe I didn’t watch enough of the Mass but I thought I would ask since I am curious. Thank you in advance!

The Maronites are the most Latinized of the Eastern Churches, unfortunately.

 

[iohanne]

Perhaps what you see was a post-Vatican II Maronite liturgy? I know Vatican II also reformed the Mozarabic Rite, for example, in addition to the Roman Rite. Maybe they reformed the Maronite liturgy as well? Can anyone verify this?

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

The Maronites have been VERY Latinized. They have sold their birthright and traditions to the Roman overlords. Not very faithful to who they really are.

I have heard some say that. Not sure I agree with it, but that is the feeling of some other ECs I have talked to.

What EC Church do you belong to, BTW, Ciero?

 

[5Loaves]

Perhaps what you see was a post-Vatican II Maronite liturgy? I know Vatican II also reformed the Mozarabic Rite, for example, in addition to the Roman Rite. Maybe they reformed the Maronite liturgy as well? Can anyone verify this?

The Second Vatican Council made no requirement whatsoever that any Church including the Latin Church, change from the ad orientem posture for the priest during the Liturgy of the Eucharist. I don’t wish to begin an argument about this but it is not accurate that the Council was responsible for the “reforms” bishops allowed regarding changes of posture for any Church, East or West. The Ordinary Form of the Mass can be served ad orientem and it’s my understanding the HH Benedict XVI sometimes serves it thus. In the GIRM for the Roman Rite there are places during the Liturgy of the Eucharist where it specifies the priest faces the people, which can assume he has been facing East up to then.

To the contrary, the Second Vatican Council most firmly called upon all Eastern Catholic Churches to rediscover our full identity and return to our venerable traditions, that is cease the Latinizations which had crept in over time.

 

[iohanne]

Thank you for your clarification. =) I understand that Vatican II did not demand the change to the celebration versus populum however do you know if the Maronite liturgy’s text and rubrics were reformed in anyway?

 

[LumenGent]

Thank you for your clarification. =) I understand that Vatican II did not demand the change to the celebration versus populum however do you know if the Maronite liturgy’s text and rubrics were reformed in anyway?

Yes they were heavily reformed in light of the changes that occured in the Latin Church. The thing to remember, is that the Maronite Church has always been the most Latinized of all the Oriental/Eastern Churches. Pre Vatican II, the Maronite Mass was Latinized in the externals ie: Vestments and rubrics. However, the actual prayers and structure of the Mass were unscathed. The changes that happened after the Council were both internal (structure of the Mass) and in the externals, to the extent that they have been labeled as Novus ordo inspired neo-Latinizations. The current Maronite architecture is indistinguishable from the modern Latin and so is the Mass with a few exceptions.

I’ll add a note and point out that some of the current rubrics are more authentic thant hose of the “old” Mass, albeit they are minor. Another positive restoration was that of Syriac vestments. The downside is that any single positive change is countered by a hundred worse changes.

 

[5Loaves]

I understand that Vatican II **did not demand the change to the celebration versus populum **

That is correct. If V2 “demanded” anything of us it was that the Eastern Churches return and reclaim their authentic venerable traditions.

Any changes the Maronite Church chose to make that retained or increased “Latinizations” would have been in contradiction to that V2 mandate and the call of each Holy Father since then.

I’ll add a note and point out that some of the current rubrics are more authentic thant hose of the “old” Mass, albeit they are minor. Another positive restoration was that of Syriac vestments.

They apparently got somethings right about the mandate to return to venerable traditions.

I am not familiar with the Maronite Church, other than to know she continues to exist in the lands of her origins, as most of our Churches do, in a near constant state of hostility from without. We’ve had very useful explanations here about the history of Latinizations in the UGCC and I suspect the devotion of the Maronite laity to the Latinizations in their Church plays a significant role in this as well. I end up saying “whatever gets you thorough the day” for these sisters and brothers struggling in our countries of origin against terrible forces bent on destroying them/us.

Blessed Martyrs of the Maronite Church, pray for us.