Maronite Vestments

[Little_Boy_Lost]

Hey Ya’ll

I was wondering about the development of the current Maronite vestments. Are they a recent development or did they undergo a series of changes during an earlier period. They look nothing like the syriac and malankara vestments who also share their tradition and rite. Thanks!

 

[malphono]

Hey Ya’ll

I was wondering about the development of the current Maronite vestments. Are they a recent development or did they undergo a series of changes during an earlier period. They look nothing like the syriac and malankara vestments who also share their tradition and rite. Thanks!

I’m not sure I understand the question, particularly the highlighted part.

 

[Vico]

Hey Ya’ll

I was wondering about the development of the current Maronite vestments. Are they a recent development or did they undergo a series of changes during an earlier period. They look nothing like the syriac and malankara vestments who also share their tradition and rite. Thanks!

Latin vestments, ring and mitre were introduced from the Latin Church in the 13th century, Pope Innocent III.

The Maronites in History by Matti Moosa, p. 267.

 

[malphono]

Latin vestments, ring and mitre were introduced from the Latin Church in the 13th century, Pope Innocent III.

The Maronites in History by Matti Moosa, p. 267.

Well … yes, but all the same, Latin altar vestments are no longer in use. Haven’t been for the past 40-some years. The same is true among the Syro-Malabars.

 

[Formosus]

Hey Ya’ll

I was wondering about the development of the current Maronite vestments. Are they a recent development or did they undergo a series of changes during an earlier period. They look nothing like the syriac and malankara vestments who also share their tradition and rite. Thanks!

The Syriac Orthodox wear more vestments, but when you get to the very core of what they are wearing, its the same. An Alb, a “Stole” like vestment, a belt, cuffs, and a Phayno. The Syriac Orthodox just add a few more on. The Maronite vestments, in my opinion, are nearly identical with the Chaldean/Assyrian Church of the East’s. To my knowledge, the current use in the Maronite Church is a re-syriacization and that they used to wear Latin vestments. Perhaps they chose to imitate the East Syrians since the Maronites have some East Syrian heritage to their tradition, as well as West Syrian.

 

[malphono]

The Syriac Orthodox wear more vestments, but when you get to the very core of what they are wearing, its the same. An Alb, a “Stole” like vestment, a belt, cuffs, and a Phayno. The Syriac Orthodox just add a few more on. The Maronite vestments, in my opinion, are nearly identical with the Chaldean/Assyrian Church of the East’s. To my knowledge, the current use in the Maronite Church is a re-syriacization and that they used to wear Latin vestments. Perhaps they chose to imitate the East Syrians since the Maronites have some East Syrian heritage to their tradition, as well as West Syrian.

Actually there is no more than a tangential relation to the Chaldean style. The Maronite style is almost identical to the SOC/SCC, and includes the phaino (“cope”), zonouro (belt), hamnicho (stole which is either one single piece or, more commonly, two connected, similar to the Byzantine epitrachelion), amice (for a priest sometimes appareled, sometimes not, depending on the individual, but always appareled for a bishop). The cuffs are (unfortunately) optional. Bishops add the batersheel (analagous to the omophorion).

The Chaldeans (and the ACoE), OTOH, use what is almost (if not absolutely) identical to a Latin cope (including fringe on the flat hood), and a Latin-style (i.e. unconnected) stole. They do not wear the cuffs, nor (for the sake of simplicity, what I’ll call) the appareled amice.

 

[malphono]

Actually there is no more than a tangential relation to the Chaldean style. The Maronite style is almost identical to the SOC/SCC, and includes the phaino (“cope”), zonouro (belt), hamnicho (stole which is either one single piece or, more commonly, two connected, similar to the Byzantine epitrachelion), amice (for a priest sometimes appareled, sometimes not, depending on the individual, but always appareled for a bishop). The cuffs are (unfortunately) optional. Bishops add the batersheel (analagous to the omophorion).

The Chaldeans (and the ACoE), OTOH, use what is almost (if not absolutely) identical to a Latin cope (including fringe on the flat hood), and a Latin-style (i.e. unconnected) stole. They do not wear the cuffs, nor (for the sake of simplicity, what I’ll call) the appareled amice.

Oops … have to correct myself in the last sentence of the first paragraph. Contrary to SOC custom, Maronite bishops do NOT add the batersheel. I might as well add that Maronite custom also does not (at least not in the past 500 or so years) include altar slippers.

 

[Little_Boy_Lost]

Thanks Malphono.

On a similar note, how does the Maronite Qurbono differ from the Syriac and Malankara Qurbono?

 

[malphono]

Thanks Malphono.

NP.

On a similar note, how does the Maronite Qurbono differ from the Syriac and Malankara Qurbono?

Well, now, that’s a rather broad (not to mention complicated) question. Suffice it to say for the moment that the Maronite Church (as I’ve mentioned in a number of prior threads) suffers very badly these days from the ill effects of Novus Ordo-inspired neo-latinization. The Syriac CC has been infected by the same thing, although to a lesser degree. The Syro-Malankara is the least neo-latinized of the three.

 

[Little_Boy_Lost]

I noticed in youtube video of a malankara liturgy, there was a keyboard used by the choir. Is this common in West Syriac Liturgy?

 

[malphono]

I noticed in youtube video of a malankara liturgy, there was a keyboard used by the choir. Is this common in West Syriac Liturgy?

Well, it’s not exactly traditional, but it’s common enough these days, including among the Chaldeans. Truth to tell, the keyboard is one of the rare things in that department that I don’t sweat, at least not when it’s played properly and appropriately (which, at least in Maronite churches, it often is not, but I digress). Those who play it well are able to elicit reasonably traditional Middle Eastern sounds from it, and I’d much rather that as an accompaniment to the vocal (whether choir or congregation) than an organ blaring or western-style guitars strumming.

 

[Aramis]

Hey Ya’ll

I was wondering about the development of the current Maronite vestments. Are they a recent development or did they undergo a series of changes during an earlier period. They look nothing like the syriac and malankara vestments who also share their tradition and rite. Thanks!

I’m not sure I understand the question, particularly the highlighted part.

Ideally, all churches of the same Rite should vest in similar vestments, perhaps with minor regional adaptations.

The Maronites, a Syriac rite church, use a syncretic hybrid of latin and syrian style vestments. It’s swinging more to the Syriac style, save for the bishops’ miters, these days.

The latinization is long standing, and not really an issue - except to a few. Personally, I think the hybrid is of long enough standing to render it not worth worry by anyone outside the Maronite Church save the relevant consistories and the Pope.

By the same token, tho’, the Ethipians have distinct vestments from the Copts, tho’ both are technically Alexandrian Rite. And no one complains, because that’s legitimate drift. Likewise the Eritreans from the Ethiopians (tho far less than from the Copts).

Far more important in the long run - the vestments are beautiful, they are worn with reverence, and help the people and clergy to focus on their respective roles in the liturgy.

(Besides, I do love to see the look on Roman faces when they see a bishop in a miter, wearing a phaino, stole, and belt… and go, “Hunh? WHAT?”

 

[souryoyo]

Ideally, all churches of the same Rite should vest in similar vestments, perhaps with minor regional adaptations.

The Maronites, a Syriac rite church, use a syncretic hybrid of latin and syrian style vestments. It’s swinging more to the Syriac style, save for the bishops’ miters, these days.

The latinization is long standing, and not really an issue - except to a few. Personally, I think the hybrid is of long enough standing to render it not worth worry by anyone outside the Maronite Church save the relevant consistories and the Pope.

By the same token, tho’, the Ethipians have distinct vestments from the Copts, tho’ both are technically Alexandrian Rite. And no one complains, because that’s legitimate drift. Likewise the Eritreans from the Ethiopians (tho far less than from the Copts).

Far more important in the long run - the vestments are beautiful, they are worn with reverence, and help the people and clergy to focus on their respective roles in the liturgy.

(Besides, I do love to see the look on Roman faces when they see a bishop in a miter, wearing a phaino, stole, and belt… and go, “Hunh? WHAT?”

+1 for thread necrology

 

[Sophronius]

Awesome!

I would agree with you Aramis that drift over time can become organic. I think the Armenians naturally acquired overtime various pieces of their vestments that originate outside the armenian tradition.