Maronites are (Roman) Catholic?

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I think one reason why the Maronites are so Latinized is because of the fact that they never broke communion with Rome.
That (and whether it’s actually true is debatable – personally I don’t care one way or the other, so I won’t get into a big discussion about it) is NOT the reason.
Hopefully some day the Maronites will restore there ancient traditions and practices and remove all the Latinized stuff.
Yeah, well … hope springs eternal, but my money is elsewhere. 🤷
 
So no matter what rite we are all Roman Catholic?
Before Vatican II, but generally after Vatican I, the normal mode was
“Roman Catholic Church” “___ Rite Parish” or “___ Rite Priest” with the Eastern Churches in Communion with Rome generally subsumed to be subject to Rome.

In many places, Catholics of the Eastern Rites were in fact part of Roman Dioceses, with their priests incardinated in the Roman Church’s Dioceses. The opposite was also true in some areas - in Ethiopia, all the Catholics were under Ethiopian Rite bishops.

Problems in the US, involving both Eastern Rite and Dominican Rite priests being forbidden to use their own rite’s liturgies by the 3rd Plenary Council of Baltimore, were finally brought to a head in 1908, when the prohibition on non-Roman liturgies in the US was overturned by Rome, and rome specified that Catholics of all Rites have the right to worship according to their native Rite. The US bishops then generally refused to incardinate priests from other rites, even if they were celibate, so a few years later (and in the continued wake of a Ruthenian schism), the parallel exarchates were established for the Ukrainians, Ruthenians, Chaldeans and Melkites.

Prior to that point, the parishes were “Roman Catholic” in the sense of being under Roman Bishops. Some old parishes still have signage reflecting that origin; others adopted it as a way of saying “Yes, Romans can fulfil their obligation here”…

As an aside, the Roman Rite bishops then imposed upon Rome to ban married priests from service in the US. Rome imposed Cum Data Fuerit, barring married men from Ordination in the US and incardination into dioceses in the US… the Ukrainians’ Archeparchy was in Canada, and so was technically not “in the US” even tho’ it had parishes in the US, and so they’ve maintained married clergy the whole time… The Ruthenians, however, suffered a SECOND schism over Cum Data Fuerit…

Vatican II decided the “Church-ness” of the Eastern Churches needed to return, and declared that the diversity of Rites was not only of value, but essential to the health of the Church, and that the post-conciliar documents of both Trent and another council calling for eventual abolition of the Eastern Churches in favor of the Roman Rite were in fact in error. It also called for the Eastern Churches to return to functioning as Churches, rather than mere dioceses of different rite, complete with internal autonomy, conciliarism, and a return to traditional liturgies.

Vatican II also had a committee that deemed the term “Rite” was overused, and confusingly so, and decided to count 6 “Rites”, with various minor rites… and put the various churches into one each. (But then those Ethiopians still had both Alexandrian Rite and Roman Rite, with both Ethiopian and Eritrean uses of the Alexandrian Rite, and the Roman Church has both Roman Rite, the several hybrid Gallo-Roman Rites, several monastic Rites, and portions of the Byzantine Rite … it’s not as clear cut…)

Anyway, Since V II, the term Rite has ceased to canonically mean a Church in Communion with Rome, and only to mean a Major Rite (Roman, Alexandrian, Chaldean, Syrian, Armenian, Byzantine), a western sub-rite (Mozarabic, Ambrosian, Bragan, Dominican, Carmelite, Carthusian, Norbertine, Dalmatian Rites), or a specific chunk of Ritual with a particular Purpose (Rite of Acceptance, Rite of Baptism, Rite of Confirmation, Rite of Ordination, Rite of Sprinkling, etc). All of which were also meanings of Rite pre-V II, but by removal of “Church Sui Iuris in Communion with Rome” from the list, it’s reduced the practical confusion somewhat. There’s been a move, in english at least, to replace “rite” as in a specific chunk of ritual with “liturgy” “ritual” or “ceremony” according to specific elements (such as Liturgy of the Word replacing Rite of Readings) but I am not certain what level that’s coming from, whether it’s approved, and whether it will stick.
 
Note the titles and terminologies used when H.H. Pope Benedict XVI recently exhorted:ECCLESIA IN MEDIO ORIENTE
2. At the beginning of this third millennium, I wish to entrust this conviction, which draws its strength from Jesus Christ, to the pastoral concern of all the Pastors of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church, and in a more particular way to my esteemed brothers the Patriarchs, Archbishops and Bishops who together, in union with the Bishop of Rome, oversee the Catholic Church in the Middle East. The natives of these lands include faithful of the venerable Eastern Catholic Churches sui iuris: the patriarchal Church of Alexandria of the Copts; the three patriarchal Churches of Antioch: Greek Melkite, Syrian and Maronite; the patriarchal Church of Babylon of the Chaldeans and that of Cilicia of the Armenians. Also living in the area are Bishops, priests and lay faithful belonging to the Latin Church. Likewise present are Indian priests and faithful from the Major Archbishoprics of Ernakulam-Angamaly of the Syro-Malabars, and from Trivandrum of the Syro-Malankaras, as well as priests and faithful of the Eastern Churches and the Latin Church in Asia and Eastern Europe, and many members of the faithful from Ethiopia and Eritrea. Together they bear witness to the unity of the faith amid the diversity of their traditions. I wish also to entrust this conviction to all the priests, the men and women religious, and the lay faithful of the Middle East, confident that it will confirm the ministry or apostolate which each carries out in his or her respective Church, in accordance with the charism bestowed by the Spirit for the upbuilding of all.


vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_ben-xvi_exh_20120914_ecclesia-in-medio-oriente_en.html
 
Note the titles and terminologies used when H.H. Pope Benedict XVI recently exhorted:ECCLESIA IN MEDIO ORIENTE
2. At the beginning of this third millennium, I wish to entrust this conviction, which draws its strength from Jesus Christ, to the pastoral concern of all the Pastors of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church, and in a more particular way to my esteemed brothers the Patriarchs, Archbishops and Bishops who together, in union with the Bishop of Rome, oversee the Catholic Church in the Middle East. The natives of these lands include faithful of the venerable Eastern Catholic Churches sui iuris: the patriarchal Church of Alexandria of the Copts; the three patriarchal Churches of Antioch: Greek Melkite, Syrian and Maronite; the patriarchal Church of Babylon of the Chaldeans and that of Cilicia of the Armenians. Also living in the area are Bishops, priests and lay faithful belonging to the Latin Church. Likewise present are Indian priests and faithful from the Major Archbishoprics of Ernakulam-Angamaly of the Syro-Malabars, and from Trivandrum of the Syro-Malankaras, as well as priests and faithful of the Eastern Churches and the Latin Church in Asia and Eastern Europe, and many members of the faithful from Ethiopia and Eritrea. Together they bear witness to the unity of the faith amid the diversity of their traditions. I wish also to entrust this conviction to all the priests, the men and women religious, and the lay faithful of the Middle East, confident that it will confirm the ministry or apostolate which each carries out in his or her respective Church, in accordance with the charism bestowed by the Spirit for the upbuilding of all.


vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_ben-xvi_exh_20120914_ecclesia-in-medio-oriente_en.html
I see, maybe USA parishes need to replace Roman Catholic with Latin Rite?
 
I agree, i think all western rite should change our name from Roman Catholic to Latin Rite Catholic, the Roman Catholic was given to us by the protestants and we should hold to our real rite name, so that other would know that its not only the Romans are Catholic but also, greek, syrian and others to see that we are truly universal
I see, maybe USA parishes need to replace Roman Catholic with Latin Rite?
 
I agree, i think all western rite should change our name from Roman Catholic to Latin Rite Catholic, the Roman Catholic was given to us by the protestants and we should hold to our real rite name, so that other would know that its not only the Romans are Catholic but also, greek, syrian and others to see that we are truly universal
True, but I doubt that would happen anytime soon, since Latin Catholic can make people think there is a Latin Mass at the parish or maybe make them think its a Latin American Catholic Church 🤷
 
Does it? Hmm. I didn’t know that. I’ve read before that it was overwhelmingly Melkite and Maronite, with a minority of Greek Orthodox and an even smaller minority of Shia (isn’t it one of the largest Christian towns in Lebanon, along with Achrafieh?)
Yes, Zahle is one of the larger towns. The Melkites form the largest group, but of course there are Maronites and Orthodox (SOC & AOC) as well, along with a minority of non-Christians. The SOC has a Patriarchal Vicariate in Zahle with a resident bishop.
 
So no matter what rite we are all Roman Catholic?
If Catholics in my area call me by my jurisdiction (the Serbian Patriarchate), it would be fair to call Catholics having in mind their jurisdiction too… and because the Bishop of Rome is the local ordinary of the whole Catholic Church, (Plus I’ve heard a dozen of times in these forums that “to be truly Catholic one has to be in communion with Peter, the Bishop of Rome.”) it logically follows that all Catholics are Roman Catholics. 👍
 
Yes, Zahle is one of the larger towns. The Melkites form the largest group, but of course there are Maronites and Orthodox (SOC & AOC) as well, along with a minority of non-Christians. The SOC has a Patriarchal Vicariate in Zahle with a resident bishop.
Wow. Very good to know. I know I can go to liturgy now if I am ever in Zahle. 🙂 I know that there is SOC presence in Lebanon (I have an old 2LP set of the Liturgy of St. James recorded in the 1960s by Mor Dionysius Behnam Jajjawi when he was Metropolitan of Lebanon), but I know basically nothing of the town-by-town distribution of Syriac Orthodox people within Lebanon. That information is much easier to find for Maronites, Greek Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox.
 
If Catholics in my area call me by my jurisdiction (the Serbian Patriarchate), it would be fair to call Catholics having in mind their jurisdiction too… and because the Bishop of Rome is the local ordinary of the whole Catholic Church, (Plus I’ve heard a dozen of times in these forums that “to be truly Catholic one has to be in communion with Peter, the Bishop of Rome.”) it logically follows that all Catholics are Roman Catholics. 👍
Don’t forget that Eastern Catholics have there own Patriarchs, so that does not make any sense. The Pope is only the patriarch of the Roman Church/Latin Church.
 
Don’t forget that Eastern Catholics have there own Patriarchs, so that does not make any sense. The Pope is only the patriarch of the Roman Church/Latin Church.
The ordinary of the Patriarchs is the Vicar of Christ, the Pope, who is the ordinary of the whole Catholic Church. Or are you denying the “supreme, full, immediate, and universal power in the care of souls” of the Pope? He’s the Pope of All Catholics, just not Roman ones.

Also, according to your logic, as other countries have their own Primates, the Pope is only the Primate of Italy? No, he is still above all Primates and all Patriarchs.
 
I have been in a discussion with two seperate Maronite Catholic priests who claim that they are Roman Catholic, just of the Maronite Rite. I found this to be very strange since I thought only Latin Catholics were Roman Catholic.

I have also seen Maronite Parishes that say " Maronite Rite Roman Catholic Church ".
Is it because of Latinization they adopted this term? I was always told Eastern Catholics reject the term Roman Catholic :confused:

Can anybody please explain why they may adopt the Latin Rite term?

God Bless,
BVMFatima
Yes,they are in communion with Rome.So are the Byzantines.There are in fact as many as thirty or more Rites . It is only if they are Orthodox,that they aren’t in line with Rome
 
I was always told Eastern Catholics reject the term Roman Catholic :confused:
Maronites, and Eastern Catholics in general, are definitely not Roman-Rite Catholics.
Can anybody please explain why they may adopt the Latin Rite term?
Doesn’t the Roman catechism explicitly say not to refer to particular churches as “rites” to begin with?
Indeed, there’s quite a lot of confusion about “church” and “rite”. For example, my parish belongs the Melkite Church, and it uses the Byzantine Rite. It would be incorrect to speak of the “Melkite Rite” (or the “Byzantine Church” for that matter). Similarly, there is no such things as “the Latin Rite”, but that phrase is used a lot, on this forum and elsewhere.
 
Maronites, and Eastern Catholics in general, are definitely not Roman-Rite Catholics.

Indeed, there’s quite a lot of confusion about “church” and “rite”. For example, my parish belongs the Melkite Church, and it uses the Byzantine Rite. It would be incorrect to speak of the “Melkite Rite” (or the “Byzantine Church” for that matter). Similarly, there is no such things as “the Latin Rite”, but that phrase is used a lot, on this forum and elsewhere.
I agree, that’s why I identify myself Roman Rite
 
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