Maronites are (Roman) Catholic?

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I presume you mean “Syriac priests” generically and mean those in union with Rome. If that’s the case, the answer is … yes, there are. It’s actually quite common, but the second part of the “bi” is normally latin. Perhaps the most common are the Syro-Malabars where most priests are bi-ritual.

I recall one or two who were bi-ritual Maronite -Melkite, but that was a long time ago.
Yes, I meant those in union with Rome (I don’t think this “bi-ritual” idea makes sense otherwise), and I meant that it is Latin in the sense that you mentioned: It’s Latin + something else, not non-Latin + other non-Latin. Though I guess the example of the seminary in Mosul is at least one counterexample of that.
 
Yes, I meant those in union with Rome (I don’t think this “bi-ritual” idea makes sense otherwise), and I meant that it is Latin in the sense that you mentioned: It’s Latin + something else, not non-Latin + other non-Latin. Though I guess the example of the seminary in Mosul is at least one counterexample of that.
Seems to me there was a similar seminary situation in Kerala between the Syro-Malabars and the Syro-Malankara. I also seem to recall that the Syro-Malabar seminaries routinely teach the Novus Ordo. Maybe one of our Keralite brethren knows if either or both is (still) the case.

Anyway, (and I’m not 100% sure about this), I don’t think the clergy in Mosul from the days of the joint seminary there were necessarily "bi-ritual’ as a group. A priest of one Church may always concelebrate in another (with the permission of the celebrant, of course) and given the close relations in Mosul, it’s likely that happened more-or-less regularly. That’s pretty much the same as concelebration among the OO.

Also, on odd occasions, a priest of one Church may be granted ad-hoc faculties by the bishop to actually celebrate according to the rite of the other for one or another reason. But that last isn’t the same as having “bi-ritual” faculties. Those are granted (by Rome) for a defined term at the request of the priest and the bishop(s) involved, and can be renewed by mutual agreement.
 
Anyway, (and I’m not 100% sure about this), I don’t think the clergy in Mosul from the days of the joint seminary there were necessarily "bi-ritual’ as a group. A priest of one Church may always concelebrate in another (with the permission of the celebrant, of course) and given the close relations in Mosul, it’s likely that happened more-or-less regularly. That’s pretty much the same as concelebration among the OO.
Yeah. That’s why the “bi-ritual” thing seems weird to me. I understand concelebration, since that’s a thing that happens among OO, but bi-ritual…I dunno. Doesn’t make sense to me. But thank you for your explanation in the other paragraph. I still can’t say I really understand it, but at least now I understand how it differs from what we do.

Do you know if there is anything like OO-style concelebration in your communion? I seem to remember various multi-ritual (or whatever you’d call it) events occurring in the context of things like World Youth Day (I’ve also seen videos on the internet labelled with titles like “Maronite hymn at St. Peters in Rome” or whatever; I don’t remember what those were connected to, though), but I don’t know that those are celebrated in the context of an actual liturgy, as the concelebrated liturgies of the OO apparently are. From what I’ve been able to find at the time of this post (things like this video), it seems like World Youth Day might actually have separate liturgies held for each particular church…but maybe there are other events that amount to concelebration as OO know it (this).
 
It was a joint seminary in Mosul (Iraq). It’s history now. 😦
a shame if you ask me. St John’s Seminary was perhaps one of the few times the Latins got it right (when it comes to helping ECs that is). The greats were formed there - most notably Rahmani.

Much credit must go to the famous Dominicans in Mosul for all they did for the preservation of the Syriac tradition.

Credit must be given where credit is due.
 
Yeah. That’s why the “bi-ritual” thing seems weird to me. I understand concelebration, since that’s a thing that happens among OO, but bi-ritual…I dunno. Doesn’t make sense to me. But thank you for your explanation in the other paragraph. I still can’t say I really understand it, but at least now I understand how it differs from what we do.
The reason it differs is because of Rome. The “bi-ritual” thing is a clear example of where Rome does exert control. 🤷
Do you know if there is anything like OO-style concelebration in your communion? I seem to remember various multi-ritual (or whatever you’d call it) events occurring in the context of things like World Youth Day (I’ve also seen videos on the internet labelled with titles like “Maronite hymn at St. Peters in Rome” or whatever; I don’t remember what those were connected to, though), but I don’t know that those are celebrated in the context of an actual liturgy, as the concelebrated liturgies of the OO apparently are. From what I’ve been able to find at the time of this post (things like this video), it seems like World Youth Day might actually have separate liturgies held for each particular church…but maybe there are other events that amount to concelebration as OO know it (this).
Yes, it does, although I don’t have a video to demonstrate. Priests, even bishops, of one Church can and do concelebrate with those of another. In such cases, the clergy are supposed to be vested according to the custom of their own Church, which is the same as in your OO video link. For example, I saw a broadcast on Noursat a while back of the Coptic CC in Lebanon with a bunch of Maronite priests concelebrating. For another, back in the '90s, when the Syriac CC diocese was established in the US, Mor (now Moran Mor) Yowsef Younan concelebrated with the Maronite bishop in our cathedral. A month or so ago, a Latin priest from Brooklyn concelebrated with the Byzantines at the Russian CC church in New York. The list goes on.
 
Yeah. That’s why the “bi-ritual” thing seems weird to me. I understand concelebration, since that’s a thing that happens among OO, but bi-ritual…I dunno. Doesn’t make sense to me. …
For inter-ritual concelebration, the main celebrant follows his normal rubrics but the concelebrants do what is assigned to them. They all wear their normal vestments. Bi-ritual and adapted clergy may wear vestments of whatever church sui iuris they have been approved for.
 
speaking of things bi-ritual, cross-traditional…whatever they may call it.

I find this video absolutely beautiful.

At the enthronment of phapha d’Moran Mor Theodorous all the SOC bishops sang a beautiful hymn and the frail Patriarch Ignatius Zaka I Iwas then followed with a phew strong chants of “AXIOS”.

sorry if I have posted this on the forum before. It is one of my favourite demonstrations of fraternal love.

youtube.com/watch?v=sHDNJV7P5-Q&feature=share&t=3h37m56s
 
Yes, Shlomo3amrooh, the Syriac chants from the enthronement were quite special. What really got to me, though, was how HH Pope Tawadros went to HH Mor Igantius Zakka I Iwas to receive the blessing, in recognition of the Patriarch’s frail physical state. Even re-watching it now, I can’t help but get a bit choked up… :o
 
Ah, that’s right. I forgot about the Latin bi-ritual thing (that is only a Latin thing, right? I mean, there are no Syriac priests who are formally “bi-ritually” Latin or Armenian or whatever too, right?)

That makes sense. It’s weird, but it makes sense.
Actually, there are biritual priests who were ordained for the the Maronite, Chaldean, Ruthenian, Melkite, and Ukrainian churches.

Very Right Rev. Msgr Mitered Archpriest Michael Artim, of Eternal Memory, was a cradle Ruthenian, with Roman faculties granted. He was made a “Chaplain of the Papal Household” (which is the formal honor which normally results in the Monsignor title for Roman priests), and later was elevated to Mitered Archpriest by the Eparchy of Van Nuys (now Phoenix). He was the chaplain for the local Catholic hospital for years.

A few deacons, as well, have biritual faculties.
Hierodeacon Friar Norbert Finh comes to mind. (Canonically ukrainian, didn’t know it, joined the Dominicans; when they went to ordain him, he was ordained by a Melkite bishop, and served the Roman, Dominican and Byzantine Rites.

One poster around here for a while is an EC deacon who has Roman faculties.
 
We have a Maronite Priest in our Roman Catholic parish. He says they honor the Pope and follow the Vatican rules. He says the Mass exactly as any other priest and once said in Arabic, the way Jesus would have. Probably the biggest difference is that if a man is previously married, he can then become a priest, which is the case for this one, but remember that was also the case for Romans as well and that changed due to the delema of the Church having to support wives and children as well as the priests.
 
Actually, there are biritual priests who were ordained for the the Maronite, Chaldean, Ruthenian, Melkite, and Ukrainian churches.
I’m aware of that. My point was that it is always Latin + something else, not two non-Latin traditions, though I have since been corrected, as there are/were apparently those who were “bi-ritually” educated to serve both the West Syriac and East Syriac liturgies in Iraq, as per some other posts in this thread.

Though again, as other posters pointed out, it seems Rome controls the whole thing, so it’s not really the same as what I had assumed it was upon thinking of priests of different traditions serving together. No matter.
 
We have a Maronite Priest in our Roman Catholic parish. He says they honor the Pope and follow the Vatican rules. He says the Mass exactly as any other priest and once said in Arabic, the way Jesus would have. Probably the biggest difference is that if a man is previously married, he can then become a priest, which is the case for this one, but remember that was also the case for Romans as well and that changed due to the delema of the Church having to support wives and children as well as the priests.
Welcome to the forum, Justabutterfly. 🙂 Just a little note: I’m not sure what you mean by “he says the Mass just as any priest would”, but the Maronite service (at least traditionally) is not the same as the service that Latin Catholic priests say. The liturgical and spiritual heritage of the Maronite Church is in the Syriac tradition which flourished in the early years of our faith in centers such as Edessa and Antioch, in modern Turkey. Liturgically, dialectically, and I suppose also socio-politically, the Maronites are what could be called “West Syriacs”, as they were found mostly within the Byzantine empire, as opposed to the “East Syriacs”, e.g., those Christians who used a Syriac liturgy within Mesopotamia and elsewhere in the Persian empire (represented by today’s Catholic Chaldeans and Syro-Malabarese, as well as the non-Catholic ‘Church of the East’/Assyrians). This might seem so much arcana, but it is important to understand in order to understand the context of this thread and the OPs question.

Also, Jesus would not have worshiped or done anything else in Arabic. Arabic as we know it only developed several centuries after the earthly ministry of Christ. The language you are looking for is called Aramaic, which was the common language of the Near East in Jesus’ time an for some time before and afterward, and is the parent language of Syriac, the language used in the liturgies of all Syriac Christians (Catholic and Orthodox) which is itself the parent language of several very small, endangered modern forms of the language collectively known under the umbrella term of “Neo-Aramaic”, which maintains certain distinctive traits that allow the attentive listener to tell something (most likely) about the speaker’s geographical origin, communal affiliation, etc.

Some examples might help clear this up, so here are a few:

“Come in Peace”, sung in Syriac, from the Maronite Qurbono (Qurbono is the word used by West Syriac Christians to mean “Mass” or “Liturgy”, though you can hear them use those words sometimes, too. The script that you see at the bottom of the screen is the Syriac script in its Western form known as Serto. Syriac has three main scripts)

A part of the Syriac Orthodox Qurbono, performed in India (These people are Syriac Orthodox Christians in the Indian state of Kerala, not in communion with Rome but still using the same form of the language as the Maronites do, to the extent that either community uses the language. Neither the Maronites nor the Orthodox Keralites speak any form of this language natively; the Maronites did until relatively recently, though it is still debated whether the Syriac Indians did, given their mixed and disputed ethnic origins. It is likely that they never spoke it natively, and have always spoken Dravidian languages common to South India. Today, the vast majority of Orthodox Christians in India speak Malayalam, which they also use in their liturgies.)

Here is a short clip of the Chaldean Qurbana (The Chaldeans are the indigenous Catholic church of Iraq, and use the Eastern form of the Syriac language in their liturgies.)

Here is the Vespers prayers in a Syriac Orthodox monastery in Holland (These are also members of a church not in communion with Rome, also using the West Syriac dialect, but unlike the Indians posted earlier these people probably are native speakers of some modern form of the language, most likely descended or emigrated from southern Turkey, an area called Tur Abdin or “Mount of the Worshipers [of Christ]” which is home to the oldest continuously inhabited Syriac monasteries in the world.)

Just for further comparative purposes, here is a psalm sung in Arabic. The language has quite a different cadence than any form of Syriac, Aramaic, etc. (nonetheless, the languages are all related, so one might pick out many words of common origin, though I suspect it would be much easier for a Syriac speaker to pick up Arabic than the other way around, for mostly sociolinguistic/political reasons).
 
I guess when he says mass it follows the same format that I am used to. Thank you for the clarifications
 
I guess when he says mass it follows the same format that I am used to. Thank you for the clarifications
Yes. That is due to the destruction of our liturgy through a process called “latinization,” which is a buzz word to many Eastern Christians :p.

Apart from our liturgy being badly deformed, there is (or at least normatively is) a resemblance between all Apostolic liturgies.
 
Hi justabutterfly. Are you talking about a priest who is biritual?
I was going to ask the same thing. It could be that justabutterfly was present at a Roman Catholic mass that was being said by a bi-ritual Maronite priest. I don’t know. I’ve got the flu so my brain is not working right.
 
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