Marriage # 2

[mareian]

I have a relative who was Roman Catholic but he converted to Baptist on the time of his 1st marriage. They were married by a judge about 10 years ago but his wife moved to a foreign country to work and she eventually just stopped calling to the point that she can no longer be traced.

Now, my relative has met someone new and they are getting married in their Baptist Church.

Is my relative still legally married in the eyes of the state? But, because his ex wife has left him (years in counting) their marriage has already “expired” or no longer valid, therefore free to marry again.

But how would we as Roman Catholics view this new relationship and their preparation to enter in a new marriage?

How about in the Prostestant world? Would they have already considered the 1st marriage invalid now, because it was not held in their Church?

Please shed some light…

 

[firstmode]

Paul, in 1 Corinthians 7, also teaches against divorce between believers. He advises the believer to remain with an unbelieving spouse if that unbeliever wants to remain. Paul advises them to work out marriage problems and stay together. He does say that if the unbeliever in a marriage wants to leave, then the believer is free to remarry. He also teaches that if the unbeliever leaves, the believing member may let them go, and may remarry.

1 Corinthians 7:

12To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

15But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

 

[kage_ar]

One thing to remember, the laws on marriage come from God and apply even if people do not admit it.

Unless your relative went through a formal defection from the Church (there is a process for this), he is to this moment bound by the laws of the Church on marriage.

Marriage outside the Church sans dispensation is invalid.

You will have to check with your state to find out the state laws.

 

[1ke]

I have a relative who was Roman Catholic but he converted to Baptist on the time of his 1st marriage. They were married by a judge about 10 years ago but his wife moved to a foreign country to work and she eventually just stopped calling to the point that she can no longer be traced.

Now, my relative has met someone new and they are getting married in their Baptist Church.

The Catholic Church still considers your relative to be a Catholic. He will always be a Catholic, it’s not possible to become “un-Catholic”. If he followed a procedure to formally defect from the Church (doubtful, as few people even know this procedure exists) then he is no longer bound by the marriage laws of the Catholic Church. If he has not done so, then he is bound by the marriage laws of the Church, as far as the Catholic Church is concerned.

Is my relative still legally married in the eyes of the state?

Yes, he is. And, if he attempts another marriage without getting a divorce he would be committing bigamy. There are probably procedures that cover abandonment and a spouse that cannot be located. They even have procedures for divorce in the case when a person is presumed dead but no body can be found, but he would have to contact a lawyer and figure out what to do civilly.

But, because his ex wife has left him (years in counting) their marriage has already “expired” or no longer valid, therefore free to marry again.

Um, no, there’s no such thing as a marriage “expiring” under civil law.

But how would we as Roman Catholics view this new relationship and their preparation to enter in a new marriage?

As exactly what it is: an invalid marriage.

How about in the Prostestant world?

That is a question with many answers, as there is no unified doctrine or authority in the “protestant world.” Most would see no problem with this as they have long abandoned the biblical teaching on divorce and remarriage. Others would see a problem with it because they hold to the same teaching as the Catholic Church does. The Baptist church, in general, does remarry divorced individuals.

Would they have already considered the 1st marriage invalid now, because it was not held in their Church?

No. The Baptist church has no required form for marriage like the Catholic Chuch does, and no concept of validity, sacramentality, etc.

 

[1ke]

Paul, in 1 Corinthians 7, also teaches against divorce between believers. He advises the believer to remain with an unbelieving spouse if that unbeliever wants to remain. Paul advises them to work out marriage problems and stay together. He does say that if the unbeliever in a marriage wants to leave, then the believer is free to remarry. He also teaches that if the unbeliever leaves, the believing member may let them go, and may remarry.

The OP does not state that the spouse her relative married is an unbeliever. They don’t state she is a believer either, but it is implied in the fact that the relative converted to the Baptist church at the time of the marriage. Sounds like maybe the woman was Baptist.

Under the Pauline Privilege, he could indeed be free to marry if the woman was unbaptized. But, all of this-- from the Catholic point of view– would have to be submitted to the Catholic Church for judgment.

 

[puzzleannie]

I have a relative who was Roman Catholic but he converted to Baptist on the time of his 1st marriage. They were married by a judge about 10 years ago but his wife moved to a foreign country to work and she eventually just stopped calling to the point that she can no longer be traced.

Now, my relative has met someone new and they are getting married in their Baptist Church.

Is my relative still legally married in the eyes of the state? But, because his ex wife has left him (years in counting) their marriage has already “expired” or no longer valid, therefore free to marry again.

But how would we as Roman Catholics view this new relationship and their preparation to enter in a new marriage?

How about in the Prostestant world? Would they have already considered the 1st marriage invalid now, because it was not held in their Church?

Please shed some light…

not enough info
don’t know baptismal status of any of the purported spouses or their previous marital status for one thing

as for the civil law, depends on jurisdiction
as for “the Protestant world” there is no such thing, as in, a universal authority that would make such a ruling so there is no “they” except the denom to which either of the purported spouse belongs, and their teaching could change at any time, has, and does.

The only thing relevant on this forum is how the Catholic Church would view the situation, since at least one of the individuals is baptized Catholic. That individual – nobody else – would have to approach a priest lay out all (not selected) elements of the situation and follow the advice given. In general, since in this (presumably) hypothetical case, we have an individual who is Catholic marrying outside the laws of the Catholic Church, the first marriage is invalid due to lack of form. Since there are a host of unanswered questions, that is just a guess, and probably useless, as are all speculations here on specifica marriage situations.

 

[Nanny_PK]

I was unclear from the OP whether or not your relative had gotten a legal divorce. Just because the wife left the country and can no longer be found does not automatically make them divorced. Might be worth consulting an attorney; otherwise, the relative could be guilty of bigamy.

 

[mareian]

Sorry for the lack of information.

My relative did not formally defect from the Church, as far as I know. I’m sure he just started going to a Baptist Church. His ex wife was a Baptist. I’m not sure if she was also baptized Catholic. They were actually married in Asia, by a Judge. Does this change things up?

So it is established that my relative is still a Catholic in the eyes of the Church. Because the first marriage was invalid, the marriage doesn’t count in the eyes of RC, but he would need to formally divorce (i’m not sure if this was accomplished yet). And if he were to proceed to marry # 2, after divorcing # 1, the marriage with # 2 will still be invalid, but in the eyes of the Protestant people, it is valid?

However,…

If he were to go back to RC and decide to marry in a Roman Catholic Church after divorcing wife whom he invalidly married, all will be fine? Of course, relative will have to go to confession…

Thanks in advance for your answers.

 

[4Squarebaby]

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How about in the Prostestant world? Would they have already considered the 1st marriage invalid now, because it was not held in their Church?

Please shed some light…

In general as the Protestant denomination moves further away from the form and ritual of the Catholic Church the more likely they are to believe that “church” is anywhere two or more believers meet. Hence ceremonies don’t have to be held on grounds owned and/or controlled by their church. Also other denominations are held as equals

 

[1ke]

Sorry for the lack of information.

My relative did not formally defect from the Church, as far as I know. I’m sure he just started going to a Baptist Church. His ex wife was a Baptist. I’m not sure if she was also baptized Catholic. They were actually married in Asia, by a Judge. Does this change things up?

No, it doesn’t change things. He is still married civilly, he needs to talk to a lawyer.

He was not validly married, as far as the Catholic Church is concerned.

So it is established that my relative is still a Catholic in the eyes of the Church.

Only informally. We know it’s invalid due to lack of form. It must be declared so by the Catholic Church through a formal process.

Because the first marriage was invalid, the marriage doesn’t count in the eyes of RC, but he would need to formally divorce (i’m not sure if this was accomplished yet). And if he were to proceed to marry # 2, after divorcing # 1, the marriage with # 2 will still be invalid, but in the eyes of the Protestant people, it is valid?

If he attempted a second marriage outside the Church, that too would be invalid.

Regarding the protestant churches, they do not have the concept of “valid” and “invalid” so it’s not really possible to answer your question. Valid is used in a very specific way in the Catholic Church.

However,…

If he were to go back to RC and decide to marry in a Roman Catholic Church after divorcing wife whom he invalidly married, all will be fine? Of course, relative will have to go to confession…

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Well, I don’t know if “all would be fine” but he could be declared free to contract a valid marriage.