Marriage and annulment - my search for answers

[thistle]

I wanted to counter the rigid way you express the significance of the factors involved, that wasn’t reflecting the place of grace in sacramental marriage. Defects in form or impediments are something that can be ridgidly determined by factors on the day of the wedding and before. But the capacity for consent and intent aren’t determined with such a strict equation. The grace bestowed by the sacramental marriage, if co-operated with by the couple can heal that kind of defect at any point within the life of the marriage. What happens after the marriage is more significant to the determination of nullity in these stituations than if other defects existed.

However, that is confusing. You are putting the main emphasis/significance on what happens during the marriage with regard to an annulment. That is wrong. The main emphasis is on what happens up to the marriage. IF there are grounds for annulment (applies ONLY up to the marriage) then what happens during the marriage can act as support for these grounds but they are not grounds in themselves nor are they the more significant part of the application.

 

[petra22]

Thanks for the conversations. We are learning some important facts just by reading and listening.

 

[dans0622]

… I do believe that our marriage was valid, but part of me wishes it wasn’t because the thought of being devoted to a wife that has a child with another man is hard pill to swallow. …

Hello,

I am sure it must be terrible.

If you pursue a marriage nullity case, your petition (which asks a certain Court to investigate the case) must include the reason for the petition, that is, the ground/grounds upon which you are challenging the validity of the marriage.

It would be contradictory for anyone to say, for example, “The marriage is invalid because the other Party excluded the good of fidelity from the marriage” but to also say “I don’t really believe she excluded anything.”

Dan

 

[dans0622]

…She appealed to Rome and the annulment was reversed. So yes, a Catholic can get married and then find that the marriage isn’t valid because of an annulment reversal. Her ex is now living in sin.

Hello,

This is all beside the point but to offer some corrections…

Nothing was “reversed.” No “annulment” was ever granted since one needs two “affirmative” decisions first. That didn’t happen in this case. Further, Mr. Kennedy never married a second time (as far as the Church is concerned). He married again in accord with civil law, not ecclesiastical.

As far as “living in sin”–you could say that. But, again, it was not because the Church first said “Ok, go ahead and marry again, Mr. Kennedy.” but then, after the second wedding, said “Sorry. You can’t marry again after all.”

Dan

 

[styrgwillidar]

Here’s my perspective as someone who’s been through the process for a declaration of nullity.

• Do you want to know the truth?
• Do you want a better understanding of what happened from both your perspective and her perspective?
• Are you willing to release your last claim on her? Your remaining connection?
• Do you love her enough to put concern for her soul over your own opinion or desire to consider the marriage valid?
• Do you think it would ever be possible that in the future you might meet someone and be tempted to inititate a relationship?
  
  We’re all human and subject to the temptation of loneliness, I thought it better to have a definitive answer now, I thought it would reduce the temptation from not knowing. That temptation to allow something to start up with someone, thinking in the back of my mind that a declaration of nullity might be a possibility. I thought it better to know the truth, when I wasn’t even interested in pursuing any relationship. To know with certainty.
  
  You seem willing to accept whatever the answer is, which is great. You are in a far better position than those who go into the process hoping for a specific answer. Because the process will provide you the truth, it will provide you greater understanding- of yourself and her, of the circumstances surrounding your marriage.
  
  The first step is sitting down with your parish priest. He may tell you right then that he sees no grounds at all, he may provide you a questionairre to fill out without expressing an opinion about grounds, he may have an opinion just based on your conversation.
• The questionairre is very helpful in getting you thinking about the marriage. Writing out how you saw it, what the background of both yourself and your spouse were, life circumstances, etc. Writing everything down does help you organize your thoughts and if you’re honest, stimulate some insights.
• The questionairre asks you to list witnesses. One of the reasons for petitioning for a declaration of nullity now is that you are more likely to be able to get a hold of witnesses than 10 or 20 years in the future. Their memories will also be fresher. I contacted my witnesses ahead of time to ask if they’d be willing to provide testimony. I was careful to indicate that I did not care what the outcome of the tribunal was, I wanted them to be completely honest.

In my diocese, you bring the completed questionairre to the priest and he reviews it. Again, he may see no grounds and advise you to take it no further. He may still submit it to the diocese, even if he doesn’t see grounds. Or, he may advise you on what grounds he sees for requesting a declaration of nullity.

In my diocese, it’s reviewed and the tribunal either agrees to open the case based on the grounds you cited, or they can indicate they’re considering it on different/additional grounds. They’ll send the same type of questionairre to your spouse. They’ll also send questionairre’s to both your and her witnesses and parents.

After the tribunal receives all of the testimony, reviews it, and obtains additional information where they feel it is lacking, you have the opportunity to review it all. This was extremely beneficial to me. I had a long marriage, there was a lot of confusion over how it ended. It was amazing how much I learned from reading all the testimony. Things I was not aware of, different folks perspective (not that I agreed with all of it) to consider. Again, much easier to do if you aren’t looking for a specific answer and you can just focus on the fact that these people are telling the truth as they knew it to be. Ponder their observations and opinions with an open mind. A lot of clarity came out of it, a much better understanding of her, myself, and the marriage at its start.

After you and spouse review or decline to review, the tribunal considers the case and then renders a decision. Which isn’t just a yes or no- it is all their reasoning, how they considered the evidence, what they concluded from it. You are given the opportunity to review it. Again, I found this extremely helpful. Very illuminating. I learned a great deal about myself and the marriage by reading the considerations of people who were not emotionally connected to it, and who had a lot of experience in considering marriages and relationships. It provided me peace of mind. Made it easier to let go. To deal with life as it is vice continuing to dwell on the past.

They issue a formal decision in the first instance, everything is sent to another diocese for a decision in the second instance.

I think you should give prayerful consideration to going through the process. Particularly since you are willing to accept any decision. It can provide much in the way of peace of mind regardless of what decision the tribunal arrives at.

 

[Joshua05]

Here’s my perspective as someone who’s been through the process for a declaration of nullity.

• Do you want to know the truth?
• Do you want a better understanding of what happened from both your perspective and her perspective?
• Are you willing to release your last claim on her? Your remaining connection?
• Do you love her enough to put concern for her soul over your own opinion or desire to consider the marriage valid?
• Do you think it would ever be possible that in the future you might meet someone and be tempted to inititate a relationship?
  
  We’re all human and subject to the temptation of loneliness, I thought it better to have a definitive answer now, I thought it would reduce the temptation from not knowing. That temptation to allow something to start up with someone, thinking in the back of my mind that a declaration of nullity might be a possibility. I thought it better to know the truth, when I wasn’t even interested in pursuing any relationship. To know with certainty.
  
  You seem willing to accept whatever the answer is, which is great. You are in a far better position than those who go into the process hoping for a specific answer. Because the process will provide you the truth, it will provide you greater understanding- of yourself and her, of the circumstances surrounding your marriage.
  
  The first step is sitting down with your parish priest. He may tell you right then that he sees no grounds at all, he may provide you a questionairre to fill out without expressing an opinion about grounds, he may have an opinion just based on your conversation.
• The questionairre is very helpful in getting you thinking about the marriage. Writing out how you saw it, what the background of both yourself and your spouse were, life circumstances, etc. Writing everything down does help you organize your thoughts and if you’re honest, stimulate some insights.
• The questionairre asks you to list witnesses. One of the reasons for petitioning for a declaration of nullity now is that you are more likely to be able to get a hold of witnesses than 10 or 20 years in the future. Their memories will also be fresher. I contacted my witnesses ahead of time to ask if they’d be willing to provide testimony. I was careful to indicate that I did not care what the outcome of the tribunal was, I wanted them to be completely honest.

In my diocese, you bring the completed questionairre to the priest and he reviews it. Again, he may see no grounds and advise you to take it no further. He may still submit it to the diocese, even if he doesn’t see grounds. Or, he may advise you on what grounds he sees for requesting a declaration of nullity.

In my diocese, it’s reviewed and the tribunal either agrees to open the case based on the grounds you cited, or they can indicate they’re considering it on different/additional grounds. They’ll send the same type of questionairre to your spouse. They’ll also send questionairre’s to both your and her witnesses and parents.

After the tribunal receives all of the testimony, reviews it, and obtains additional information where they feel it is lacking, you have the opportunity to review it all. This was extremely beneficial to me. I had a long marriage, there was a lot of confusion over how it ended. It was amazing how much I learned from reading all the testimony. Things I was not aware of, different folks perspective (not that I agreed with all of it) to consider. Again, much easier to do if you aren’t looking for a specific answer and you can just focus on the fact that these people are telling the truth as they knew it to be. Ponder their observations and opinions with an open mind. A lot of clarity came out of it, a much better understanding of her, myself, and the marriage at its start.

After you and spouse review or decline to review, the tribunal considers the case and then renders a decision. Which isn’t just a yes or no- it is all their reasoning, how they considered the evidence, what they concluded from it. You are given the opportunity to review it. Again, I found this extremely helpful. Very illuminating. I learned a great deal about myself and the marriage by reading the considerations of people who were not emotionally connected to it, and who had a lot of experience in considering marriages and relationships. It provided me peace of mind. Made it easier to let go. To deal with life as it is vice continuing to dwell on the past.

They issue a formal decision in the first instance, everything is sent to another diocese for a decision in the second instance.

I think you should give prayerful consideration to going through the process. Particularly since you are willing to accept any decision. It can provide much in the way of peace of mind regardless of what decision the tribunal arrives at.

That was the most thorough and informative response I have received. Thanks a lot. You have given me lots to think about and have clarified some things for me. I do appreciate it.