Marriage and Annulment

[vam]

Hello: I know a person who’s civil union/marriage was blessed and then divorced. Do they need an annulment? One person was Catholic, one was not. He was told that it was ‘convalidated’, so he would not need one. But, does that mean the having a blessing was a charade of sorts?

Thanks much

 

[puzzleannie]

Neither you nor I nor anyone one this forum can answer the question. The parties concerned approach their priest and lay all the facts before him, and proceed from there. Either the marriage is valid but not sacramental, in which case whatever the barrier to sacramental marriage needs to be removed; or the marriage is not valid, and if there are no barriers it can be convalidated by the priest. Or if there are barriers to a valid marriage (previous marriage by either party) the case is referred to the marriage tribunal who makes a complete investigation of all prior marriages and ascertains if they were valid. This by no means explores all the possibilities, which are endless, each case is unique, and no one can make a judgement looking at it from the outside. without knowing anything other than what you stated, the marriage having been convalidated means it is valid and therefore cannot be ended by divorce or any other means.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

vam:

Hello: I know a person who’s civil union/marriage was blessed and then divorced. Do they need an annulment? One person was Catholic, one was not. He was told that it was ‘convalidated’, so he would not need one. But, does that mean the having a blessing was a charade of sorts?

Thanks much

Vam,

Once a marriage is convalidated it is considered to be a valid marriage. Since all attempts at marriage (whether valid or not) need to go before the tribunal prior to another attempt at marriage, the case you cite would, indeed, need to be submitted to the tribunal should the Catholic party want to remarry. If the Catholic does not desire to remarry, he or she is free to participate in the sacraments because divorce alone does not separate one from the sacraments.

Deacon Ed

 

[Deacon_Ed]

puzzleannie:

The parties concerned approach their priest and lay all the facts before him, and proceed from there. Either the marriage is valid but not sacramental, in which case whatever the barrier to sacramental marriage needs to be removed; or the marriage is not valid, and if there are no barriers it can be convalidated by the priest.

I’m not sure what you are trying to say here, but it is not in accordance with Catholic theology. A marriage may be valid but not sacramental (called a “natural bond”) because one of the parties to the marriage is not baptized. Such a marriage may be witnessed by a priest or deacon and it is every bit as valid as a sacramental marriage. For a marriage to be sacramental both parties need to be baptized (but not necessarily Catholic).

There is no need to remove a “barrier” to a sacramental marriage if the marriage is a natural bond.

The basic issue is whether or not the marriage is valid, not whether or not it is sacramental.

Deacon Ed

 

[Catholic2003]

vam:

He was told that it was ‘convalidated’, so he would not need one.

As Deacon Ed has said, this is not true. The convalidation fixes the lack of canonical form that was missing from the civil marriage. Thus, the marriage must be investigated to see if there are other grounds, e.g., defective consent, for an annulment.

The only difference for convalidated marriages that I am aware of is an additional annulment ground, “invalid convalidation”, in which the parties didn’t approach the convalidation with the full appreciation that their prior civil marriage attempt was invalid. Evidence for “invalid convalidation” would include the couple continuing to celebrate anniversaries on the date of the civil marriage instead of on the date of the convalidation.

 

[bensjoyce]

A person who is divorced cannot receive Holy Communion unless the reason for divorce is a condition which the Church “tolerates” CCC, such as abandonment, extreme substance abuse, adultry. etc.

Divorce is a Mortal Sin, So if you obtained a divorce (ie you are not innocent for the divorce) then you cannot go to communion. What if you went to confession? Then it’s Ok? No it is not. The priest giving absolution must require restitution. If I stole a motorcycle can this sin be forgiven in confession. Yes, it can but you have to return the motorcycle. A Man or women who left their spouse because of a lack of money etc etc must return to their spouses where possible.

A multitude of divorces are out there, who divorced for reasons not “tolerated” by the Catholic Church. Many of them obtained divorce where their spouses did not want the divorce and wept (the innocent party). These people (the guilty party), are not in the state of Grace. That judgment is left to God but meanwhile there are conditions where you cannot receive Holy Communion. Meanwhile bishops, priests and Deacons undermine the Sacrament of Marriage thus placing their souls in serious jeopordy by pushing and promoting Annulments against the Holy Father’s wishes (JPII)

 

[mswood]

A person who is divorced cannot receive Holy Communion unless the reason for divorce is a condition which the Church “tolerates” CCC, such as abandonment, extreme substance abuse, adultry. etc.

Divorce is a Mortal Sin, So if you obtained a divorce (ie you are not innocent for the divorce) then you cannot go to communion. What if you went to confession? Then it’s Ok? No it is not. The priest giving absolution must require restitution. If I stole a motorcycle can this sin be forgiven in confession. Yes, it can but you have to return the motorcycle. A Man or women who left their spouse because of a lack of money etc etc must return to their spouses where possible.

A multitude of divorces are out there, who divorced for reasons not “tolerated” by the Catholic Church. Many of them obtained divorce where their spouses did not want the divorce and wept (the innocent party). These people (the guilty party), are not in the state of Grace. That judgment is left to God but meanwhile there are conditions where you cannot receive Holy Communion. Meanwhile bishops, priests and Deacons undermine the Sacrament of Marriage thus placing their souls in serious jeopordy by pushing and promoting Annulments against the Holy Father’s wishes (JPII)

This is entirely false. Civil divorce is NOT a Mortal sin, it is not a sin at all. Divorced Catholics who have not remarried are not barred from receiving communion. The Catholic church does not recognize civil divorce, so there are no restrictions on reasons a Catholic may obtain a civil divorce.

Attempting to remarry after a civil divorce without having the first first marriage found to be invalid (thus making the person free to marry in the church), is considered a sin.

 

[1ke]

A person who is divorced cannot receive Holy Communion unless the reason for divorce is a condition which the Church “tolerates” CCC, such as abandonment, extreme substance abuse, adultry. etc.

Divorce is a Mortal Sin, So if you obtained a divorce (ie you are not innocent for the divorce) then you cannot go to communion. What if you went to confession? Then it’s Ok? No it is not. The priest giving absolution must require restitution.

(a) You are correct that divorce might be a sin under the Sixth Commandments depending upon the circumstances. One can be the guilty party or one can be an innocent spouse.

(b) You are not correct regarding the sacraments. A person who confesses their part in the breakdown of the marriage or pursuit of divorce can most definitely receive absolution and resume the sacramental life including Communion.

If I stole a motorcycle can this sin be forgiven in confession. Yes, it can but you have to return the motorcycle. A Man or women who left their spouse because of a lack of money etc etc must return to their spouses where possible.

This is not correct. A priest can **never **put a condition on absolution in the confessional that requires a person to do something as you describe above. This would be a violation of the seal of confession.

A multitude of divorces are out there, who divorced for reasons not “tolerated” by the Catholic Church. Many of them obtained divorce where their spouses did not want the divorce and wept (the innocent party). These people (the guilty party), are not in the state of Grace. That judgment is left to God but meanwhile there are conditions where you cannot receive Holy Communion.

You are not correct.

Meanwhile bishops, priests and Deacons undermine the Sacrament of Marriage thus placing their souls in serious jeopordy by pushing and promoting Annulments against the Holy Father’s wishes (JPII)

I think you overstep your authority to suggest bishops, priests, and deacons act inappropriately. If there are valid grounds for a decree of nullity, a person has a canonical right to pursue the case. If there are no grounds, then the person does not.

 

[1ke]

This is entirely false. Civil divorce is NOT a Mortal sin, it is not a sin at all.

Check your catechism. It is indeed a sin against the Sixth Commandment. It is grave matter, and can be a mortal sin depending upon circumstances.

Divorced Catholics who have not remarried are not barred from receiving communion.

This is true, after they go to confession for their part in the breakdown of the marriage.

The Catholic church does not recognize civil divorce, so there are no restrictions on reasons a Catholic may obtain a civil divorce.

This is absolutely not true, and you should see canon law on the matter, see the section on separation while the bond remains. The Church does retain authority over this area, and there certainly are restrictions.

Attempting to remarry after a civil divorce without having the first first marriage found to be invalid (thus making the person free to marry in the church), is considered a sin.

This is true.

 

[bensjoyce]

In the early 70’s when civil law changed (by state), Civil divorce was granted even though one of the spouses did not want it. Before the early '70’s to get a divorce BOTH spouses had to agree to it. Up to the early '70’s, If you were Catholic and agreed to the divorce then you COULD NOT go to Communion, because you are in agreement of commiting a Mortal Sin (See below), “grave offense”

Malachi 2: 16 “For I hate divorce, says the LORD, the God of Israel”

In order to go to communion post '70’s you have to go to a priest to see if you are the “innocent party” in the divorce. If you are not the innocent party then you obtained a divorce wrongly and if you are truely sorry for your grave offence you return to your spouse where possible. Even separation (wrongly chosen, as with a man chasing other women or a women seeking a man who makes more money-it happens all the time) can be a grave offence since it is a form of abandonment and opens the door (as the catachism states) for temptation and further astrangement, rendering the situation “beyond repair”.

From the CCC

2384 Divorce is a grave offence against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:

If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another’s husband to herself.

2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.

2386 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage

 

[bensjoyce]

and where do the people go who after they die and are found guilty by God for the Grave offence of divorce.?

The first secret was a vision of Hell, which Lúcia describes in her Third Memoir, as follows:
“Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror.”[19]