Marriage and baptism are not middle-class rites of passage. We need to make them easier

[phil19034]

I’m not sure it’s the fault of the church itself, but I do think this is an issue on a few levels.

While there were many reasons that I left the church as a teen/young adult, one thing that really impacted me was when my parents insisted that my boyfriend (now-husband) and I wait until we graduated from college before marrying. Now, obviously they would have preferred that we waited to get married and were chaste, but when the choices were 1) get married now rather than “living in sin” for a few years when marriage will be more socially acceptable and 2) “live in sin” for a few years rather than getting married at a time they would have raised eyebrows among their friends (we were both 20), they choose the latter. They saw cohabitation as the lesser of two evils, and I’m honestly not sure why they saw marrying young as such a great evil.

I certainly understand that from a practical standpoint, but the message it sent to me was that my parents, despite going to Mass every week, put middle-class American values over church values.

They are absolutely not in any way responsible for my own sin, and I was not a practicing Catholic at the time (although we were considering marrying at the time because we were young and romantic) but it did say something to me that, when push came to shove, they would rather I live in a way contrary to the teachings of the church they’d raised me in than do something against middle-class American values.

This is a great (yet subtle) example of the Americanism heresy which is still alive here.

 

[reggieM]

While I didn’t like the piece (because it was in a Catholic Newspaper), I do appreciate your analysis of this piece. But I think his sarcasm cause many not to read between the lines.

Anyway, your post is very good and I feel filled with many solid points.

I agree - I thought that was very insighful by gracepoole and it was good (or sad in this case) to read about those experiences.

 

[Brassring]

I can attest that the traditionalists had the exact same attitudes decades ago, when the now beatified Pope Paul VI and the now canonised Pope John Paul II occupied the place that now belongs to Pope Francis. It was no more pleasant then than it is now.

As a new Catholic, I actually find this heartening.

 

[phil19034]

I’m not blaming you or your parents with this, but I think they were not alone in how they viewed the matter. Many Catholics today do the same thing. People don’t want to be embarrassed for some reason, so they will put middle-class values first and their religion second.
The pressure to fit into society is very strong and often we are not given support to stand up for our Faith. That is not an excuse, but I think just a fact. Plus, very often we think that society is judging us much more than it really is. In reality people are not judging us that severely, but we exaggerated it and then deny the Catholic Faith on that basis (speaking for myself since I have done such sinful sorts of things in the past which I am ashamed of).
So, eventually children will see that and decide that the Catholic Faith is not that important, but social standing or having a boyfriend or having a high-paying job - or many things like that, are more important.

This is a hold over from the time when the Americanism heresy was very strong and rapid.

American Catholics don’t like to differ with American society (which is Protestant in nature). They often want everyone to view them as a healthy part of American society. This is even true of clergy.

But to be a devout Catholic runs counter-cultural to American society, always has always will (except maybe during the 1940s and 1950s)

The Americanism heresy hasn’t gone away, it’s just gone underground. But some European and South American clergy are starting to point it out again due to the perceived alliance between orthodox Catholics and Evangelical / Fundamentalist protestants (though I strongly believe that this is more of an issue of non-Americans not understanding the Religious Freedom debates here in the US, nor the diverse make up of the Republican Party).

God Bless

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I think it’s a basic human need to want to fit in. Most of us us live the majority of our lives in a secular environment and attitudes rub off on us sometimes without us even realizing. It doesn’t surprise me that a lot of Catholic’s images of a baptism or marriage is closer to the secular image than the Catholic.

 

[reggieM]

I think it’s a basic human need to want to fit in. Most of us us live the majority of our lives in a secular environment and attitudes rub off on us sometimes without us even realizing. It doesn’t surprise me that a lot of Catholic’s images of a baptism or marriage is closer to the secular image than the Catholic.

We are called not to conform ourselves to the world. That task is a Cross which is often much more painful and difficult than we would imagine. I don’t think we hear enough about it either and we often lack support. Standing against the world, not fitting in, resisting secular attitudes – all of that would leave a person isolated if he or she did not have friends and community that shared belief.
In our Catholic community today, too often those who stand against the values of the secular community also do not get support from their Catholic community. I would say that even some of our priests don’t understand or support this (although just about every priest on earth faces this isolation from the secular world).

I’m sympathetic when a young couple comes to Church for marriage and they are totally indoctrinated by worldly values and attitudes. That has been their whole life in education, friends, society, media. Even if they went to Mass every Sunday they wouldn’t find that much to challenge any of that.

For me, that’s a big problem.

I see other religious communities that live that detachment from the world to one extent or another. Obvious examples - Amish and Orthodox Jews (not saying we have to be like them), and both of those have very strong family-community life to support their non-worldly attitudes.

Without that, people just get swept away by secularism.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I guess in the absence of correct teaching something will always fill the gap and these days chances are it’s secular mainstream views.

In my part of the world Catholics are a minority and we are not clumped together geographically. I think the church needs to wake up to this and has needed to for several decades. What worked for my grandparents generation when you were living near Catholic extended family as well as many neighbors and colleagues clearly isn’t cutting it now when large numbers of young people are passing through education and sacraments unmoved and with little understanding.

These hoops and barriers to marriage and baptism are a sticking plaster to a bigger issue.

 

[reggieM]

I guess in the absence of correct teaching something will always fill the gap and these days chances are it’s secular mainstream views.

In my part of the world Catholics are a minority and we are not clumped together geographically. I think the church needs to wake up to this and has needed to for several decades. What worked for my grandparents generation when you were living near Catholic extended family as well as many neighbors and colleagues clearly isn’t cutting it now when large numbers of young people are passing through education and sacraments unmoved and with little understanding.

These hoops and barriers to marriage and baptism are a sticking plaster to a bigger issue.

I fully agree.

 

[Phemie]

Yes indeed. The sort of Catholic that seems to be preferred amongst polite society today seems to be one who doesn’t take his religion too seriously. Go to Mass on Sunday, by all means, but accept the general values of society as taking precedence. Don’t take religious teachings too seriously, especially when it comes to sexual matters. Be reasonable, make an accomodation with the world around you, hold a modern outlook.

The pressure to fit in can be substantial, but are we actually meant to fit in?

Reminiscent of my friend whose only criteria about those with same sex attraction and same sex marriage: “I’m happy for them if they’re happy.”

But how can you be happy for them if there is a chance that their happiness on earth may deny them Heaven? I simply worry about them and keep them in my prayers.

I prepare parents for the Baptism of their children using material prepared by the Sister who set up this process for our parish. In truth they could be handed a video and asked to watch it at home for all that the matrial contains. In fact for the most part we’re directly quoting a video. Nothing about the effects of Baptism and certainly nothing about the parents’ responsibilities to their baptized children. I added material from the Catechism to give them more meat.

I’d say that 70% of the younger parents we “prepare” are only having their children baptized to please their parents or even their grandmother. They make no bones about it. In most cases we know that the next time we’re likely to see the kid again is when grandma signs him/her up for First Communion and then we won’t see them again until someone signs them up for Confirmation, if anyone bothers to do that.

Some of the older parents have more interest in the sacrament and are not seeking to please anyone. A handful are full of faith, know the effects of Baptism and the wherefors and the whys. In 7 years two such families come to mind, the parents in both cases were more qualified to do the preparation than I was. Neither family was North American.

 

[Brendan_64]

If people look at us, scoff at us, laugh at us, ridicule us and call us wierd, we should be glad. I think a time is coming when that will be considered a very mild response, and instead of mockery we will be persecuted. If we want to fit in and belong to society so much now, how will we react when we are persecuted by the society we want to belong to?

 

[ConfusedLucy]

If people look at us, scoff at us, laugh at us, ridicule us and call us wierd, we should be glad. I think a time is coming when that will be considered a very mild response, and instead of mockery we will be persecuted. If we want to fit in and belong to society so much now, how will we react when we are persecuted by the society we want to belong to?

The problem is many of us don’t really have a strong Catholic identity to be persecuted for being Catholic.